2023 FAI F3A RC Aerobatics World Championships
08-20-2023, 06:12 PM
#26
Day 1 scores of the top 40 both flight lines, but still needs to be normalized against all for each set of judges and all pilots.
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid...68526133176550
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid...68526133176550
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid...68526133176550
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid...68526133176550
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid...68526133176550
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid...68526133176550
08-20-2023, 06:18 PM
#27
My friend Marcos Malloy Resende from Brazil must be by far the oldest competitor at 77 years "young". As you all know the skill it takes to fly F3A makes this no small feat to be competing there and be judged against the best in the world. Congrats Marcos!
Marcos Malloy Resende
Marcos Malloy Resende
Last edited by Freddy; 08-20-2023 at 06:19 PM. Reason: grammar
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wattsup (08-20-2023)
08-20-2023, 11:39 PM
#32
My Feedback: (4)
Results after two rounds.
in case the resolution of the pic is too poor here is the Link: 2023_FAI_F3A_World_Championship_for_Aerobatic_Model_Aircraft_prelim.pdf
regards,
Sergio Velasquez
08-21-2023, 04:19 AM
#33
That is a sad state of affairs, only 3 YS and 54 electrics! I know I will get political backlash but IMHO contras should be banned in a SKILLS contest. I have written the FAI multiple times on that yet no reply cricket sounds. I have been an aeronautical engineer for 35 years now and anyone who knows just a bit about aerodynamics and knows how airplanes fly would understand what I am talking about (P factor). And for the record I competed in 3 F3A WC. Aussie bjr_93tz I remember your posts what say you?
Last edited by Freddy; 08-21-2023 at 04:22 AM. Reason: typo
08-21-2023, 12:51 PM
#34
That is a sad state of affairs, only 3 YS and 54 electrics! I know I will get political backlash but IMHO contras should be banned in a SKILLS contest. I have written the FAI multiple times on that yet no reply cricket sounds. I have been an aeronautical engineer for 35 years now and anyone who knows just a bit about aerodynamics and knows how airplanes fly would understand what I am talking about (P factor). And for the record I competed in 3 F3A WC. Aussie bjr_93tz I remember your posts what say you?
08-21-2023, 01:53 PM
#35
That is a sad state of affairs, only 3 YS and 54 electrics! I know I will get political backlash but IMHO contras should be banned in a SKILLS contest. I have written the FAI multiple times on that yet no reply cricket sounds. I have been an aeronautical engineer for 35 years now and anyone who knows just a bit about aerodynamics and knows how airplanes fly would understand what I am talking about (P factor). And for the record I competed in 3 F3A WC. Aussie bjr_93tz I remember your posts what say you?
08-21-2023, 11:15 PM
#38
Hello
CPLR told us he will not go to electric.
The contra is not a panacea, free to those who use it.
The three blades are fine as well and more simply as Onda's LeaderG and Carrier's Bip Leader
Claude
CPLR told us he will not go to electric.
The contra is not a panacea, free to those who use it.
The three blades are fine as well and more simply as Onda's LeaderG and Carrier's Bip Leader
Claude
Last edited by papaone; 08-21-2023 at 11:23 PM.
08-22-2023, 01:13 AM
#39
That is a sad state of affairs, only 3 YS and 54 electrics! I know I will get political backlash but IMHO contras should be banned in a SKILLS contest. I have written the FAI multiple times on that yet no reply cricket sounds. I have been an aeronautical engineer for 35 years now and anyone who knows just a bit about aerodynamics and knows how airplanes fly would understand what I am talking about (P factor). And for the record I competed in 3 F3A WC. Aussie bjr_93tz I remember your posts what say you?
I suspect you have never flown a contra equiped F3A plane. If you had you would realise the percieved advantages are in practice almost non existant. I've spoken to seveal top F3A flyers and the biggest reason for them to consider going contra is for the downline braking. However, with the use of the D3 ESC and 3 balde props the dowline breaking is almost on par with a contra. The current UK F3A champion does not consider the added complexity (and expense) of a contra to be worth it over a D3 and 3 blade.
Also, besides the added complexity and expense a contra brings additional issues, reduced yaw stability being the biggest in my opinion. I am flying a contra this year for the first time and I'm not fully convinced, I plan to do some back to back tests with two identical models (Element) one with a Contra and the other with a conventional 2 blade.
Steve
08-22-2023, 01:57 AM
#40
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Contra is what Contra is I guess, so long as the pilot is effectively in command of ESC output PWM percentage.
As for P-factor? Now I'm messing around with heli's as well and I'm still trying to reconcile the gyroscopic's of rotorblades with the gyroscopics of a propeller. One might argue with a heli, the P-factor dominates the aerodynamics of the airframe, and with F3A aircraft the airframe aerodynamics needs to dominate the P-factor. But that's all discussions for another thread.
My main focus of today was watching some back-to-back flights of certain competitors and trying to identify where some of those competitors are consistently picking up downgrades compared to the other. I think I've identified something I should be working on and I'll pass that on to a few of the guys I fly with, but for me I'm lazy and fixing years of lazy flying habits is easier-said-than-done...
As for P-factor? Now I'm messing around with heli's as well and I'm still trying to reconcile the gyroscopic's of rotorblades with the gyroscopics of a propeller. One might argue with a heli, the P-factor dominates the aerodynamics of the airframe, and with F3A aircraft the airframe aerodynamics needs to dominate the P-factor. But that's all discussions for another thread.
My main focus of today was watching some back-to-back flights of certain competitors and trying to identify where some of those competitors are consistently picking up downgrades compared to the other. I think I've identified something I should be working on and I'll pass that on to a few of the guys I fly with, but for me I'm lazy and fixing years of lazy flying habits is easier-said-than-done...
08-22-2023, 04:37 AM
#41
Hello
I totaly agree with SAB
Steph Carrier tried the contra adverrun on one plane and the three-bladed Falcon with a Plettenberg motor on the other.
After tests he equipped the second plane with a Plett and three-blade engine.
I asked him why.
The reason for the contra is to brake on the descents but as the braking is done from the front, the yaw stability is less good..
I totaly agree with SAB
Steph Carrier tried the contra adverrun on one plane and the three-bladed Falcon with a Plettenberg motor on the other.
After tests he equipped the second plane with a Plett and three-blade engine.
I asked him why.
The reason for the contra is to brake on the descents but as the braking is done from the front, the yaw stability is less good..
08-22-2023, 04:57 AM
#42
Freddy,
I suspect you have never flown a contra equiped F3A plane. If you had you would realise the percieved advantages are in practice almost non existant. I've spoken to seveal top F3A flyers and the biggest reason for them to consider going contra is for the downline braking. However, with the use of the D3 ESC and 3 balde props the dowline breaking is almost on par with a contra. The current UK F3A champion does not consider the added complexity (and expense) of a contra to be worth it over a D3 and 3 blade.
Also, besides the added complexity and expense a contra brings additional issues, reduced yaw stability being the biggest in my opinion. I am flying a contra this year for the first time and I'm not fully convinced, I plan to do some back to back tests with two identical models (Element) one with a Contra and the other with a conventional 2 blade.
Steve
I suspect you have never flown a contra equiped F3A plane. If you had you would realise the percieved advantages are in practice almost non existant. I've spoken to seveal top F3A flyers and the biggest reason for them to consider going contra is for the downline braking. However, with the use of the D3 ESC and 3 balde props the dowline breaking is almost on par with a contra. The current UK F3A champion does not consider the added complexity (and expense) of a contra to be worth it over a D3 and 3 blade.
Also, besides the added complexity and expense a contra brings additional issues, reduced yaw stability being the biggest in my opinion. I am flying a contra this year for the first time and I'm not fully convinced, I plan to do some back to back tests with two identical models (Element) one with a Contra and the other with a conventional 2 blade.
Steve
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FinnSpeed (08-30-2023)
08-23-2023, 11:07 AM
#44
Hello
I totaly agree with SAB
Steph Carrier tried the contra adverrun on one plane and the three-bladed Falcon with a Plettenberg motor on the other.
After tests he equipped the second plane with a Plett and three-blade engine.
I asked him why.
The reason for the contra is to brake on the descents but as the braking is done from the front, the yaw stability is less good..
I totaly agree with SAB
Steph Carrier tried the contra adverrun on one plane and the three-bladed Falcon with a Plettenberg motor on the other.
After tests he equipped the second plane with a Plett and three-blade engine.
I asked him why.
The reason for the contra is to brake on the descents but as the braking is done from the front, the yaw stability is less good..
08-24-2023, 01:21 AM
#45
Peter,
The yaw instability introduced by a contra has long been discussed and in the early days was quite pronounced. Additional side area at the tail end was added to compensate and eventualy aircraft were designed with significantly more side area at the rear end, however, I've not seen a definitive technical reason for the instability. The best "hand waving" explanation I've got is that with a conventional prop you have two forces, perpendicular to the flight direction, acting on the tail end, one from the spiral airstream from the prop and the other acting on the other side of the fuz as a result of right thrust. So these 2 forces are acting on both sides of the fin/rear fuz and thefore have a stabilising effect. With contra these 2 forces have essentialy gone.
I'm sure there are other explanations, some poeple don't believe the spiral airsteam is real, some conventionaly propped F3A planes don't need right thrust etc etc
Steve
The yaw instability introduced by a contra has long been discussed and in the early days was quite pronounced. Additional side area at the tail end was added to compensate and eventualy aircraft were designed with significantly more side area at the rear end, however, I've not seen a definitive technical reason for the instability. The best "hand waving" explanation I've got is that with a conventional prop you have two forces, perpendicular to the flight direction, acting on the tail end, one from the spiral airstream from the prop and the other acting on the other side of the fuz as a result of right thrust. So these 2 forces are acting on both sides of the fin/rear fuz and thefore have a stabilising effect. With contra these 2 forces have essentialy gone.
I'm sure there are other explanations, some poeple don't believe the spiral airsteam is real, some conventionaly propped F3A planes don't need right thrust etc etc
Steve
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08-25-2023, 06:30 AM
#47
Thanks for posting the semi final results papaone!
Good to see CPLR still knocking on that top 3 door with YS! He too is a day older these days but still one of the best at this and the all time winning-est F3A world champion likely never to be equaled again. And congrats to his son APLR all the way up in 17th and junior world champion also with YS!
I have never seen Lassi Nurila fly he must be out of this world good. Congrats Andrew for knocking right there on that WC door he is a known entity. Wow F is already very hard imagine unknowns these guys are out of this world good.
Congrats and best of luck to all finalists hats off! I respect your skill.
Good to see CPLR still knocking on that top 3 door with YS! He too is a day older these days but still one of the best at this and the all time winning-est F3A world champion likely never to be equaled again. And congrats to his son APLR all the way up in 17th and junior world champion also with YS!
I have never seen Lassi Nurila fly he must be out of this world good. Congrats Andrew for knocking right there on that WC door he is a known entity. Wow F is already very hard imagine unknowns these guys are out of this world good.
Congrats and best of luck to all finalists hats off! I respect your skill.
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08-26-2023, 12:02 PM
#50
Congrats to all winners and on the podiums you are the best at this in this elite skill based discipline. Too bad CPLR could not squeak into the top 3 after the semis but I applaud him for his skill and talent and hanging on to YS against all political pressure. Thank you all for keeping F3A alive for most this was a very far hard to get to very expensive trip.
Thank you all for your participation in this thread I started especially papaone!
Thank you all for your participation in this thread I started especially papaone!
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wattsup (08-26-2023)