I'm in the market for a pattern plane. This will be my first pattern plane, so instead of trial and error I would like some opinions from the experienced pattern fliers as to what they think is the best plane. This is just my opinion, but I like Ys engines and would buy one suited for the plane. YS is just a preference. Lets here your opinions. One more thing I would like to stay in the 600.00 and under range, I would prefer an ARF, but would spend more.

PS

I've been flying for quite a while.


Thanks Bobby

Bobby, you should have just asked everyone which radio is best, and gotten it over with!!!
Seriously, there are so many choices out there to make.

First question I'd ask is about size? You said YS, are you intending to use the 1.40 size, or smaller?

If the 1.40 and up, I don't know of an ARF pattern design of any flavor in the $600 range. Bump the figure 2 bills, and the market opens some. Bump it 4 bills, and you've got LOTS of choices for the 1.40 - 1.60, 2M bird.

If you are just starting, the bigger 2M bird is NOT needed, nor necessarily desirable. There is a MUCH wider array of 60-90 size ARFS that WOULD work....most notably recently is the Quest 3D from Creek hobbies that's getting good press.

The Focus 2 ARF would be a good choice especially if you are just starting out...The new planes are suppose to be 10lbs on the 140Sport its great for a long time in your learning curve.
I think the ARC is around $600 and if you wanted a more dedicated model to work on with the glass fuse and all the Temptation kits are pretty good. I am helping a youngster with his and its good quality stuff. You can get the basic kit for like $650 or you can get one with the sheeted wings and and ailerons cut out for around $750...This is a little more than your goal price of 600 clams but on the other hand its a good flying model that has a proven lineage and will fly great on the 140Sport...From the looks of the $750 kit I think we are going to come in at right around 10lbs and this will be perfect for him...By the way he is flying Masters and will be using a 140Sport in it.

Troy

Bob

I really didn't know any other way to ask it. I've been flying 25% and smaller aerobatic planes and fun fly profiles for quite some time and until recently never considered a pattern plane. I was really saying I don't want a pattern wannabe. A 60 to 90 size or up would be fine the cost of the plane really doesn't matter as long as the flying characteristics and structural integrity match the price. I've heard mixed reviews in my part of the woods about the Quest. I have seem one fly and I like the looks, it's really the plane that inspired me to buy a pattern plane. Maybe you can share your idea's about this or any other plane. How about Zen series?

tnewman

What manufacture makes the focus and temptation? What would be the difference in size and flying characteristics on these two planes?

Piedmont Models makes them both

http://www.piedmontmodels.com/

They are good solid planes. They are both the same size roughly 2M even though the trend is to go with short wings. Both models have the same wing on them. Basically just different construction and a little different look. They both fly very similar. I know what the website says about 9 3/4lb Focus 2's for the prototypes. I don't think that will prove out in the end I would suspect the F2 to be heavier than this perhaps in the 10.25-10.5lb range. Remember the prototypes are always a little lighter and built of the very best wood hand picked. Production models will probably a little heavier...Most of the Focus 1's were 10.5 to pushing 11lb or over 11lb. I think the guys worked very hard to get the weight down. To their credit I'm sure some of it came off but I would doubt a 9.75lb F2

Now I have seen the Temptation flying at below 10lbs so it is possible for sure with that model...A realistic number that is great for the Temptation is around 10-10.25lbs.

These are simple to operate models that have the properties of the top end high dollar pattern models. They basically evolutions of older designs that have been very successful. I have flown both the Temptation and a F1 with many of the F2 mods on it....They are honest airplanes.

They are not the top of the line top 10 in the world level models but then again 99% of those flying are not at this level of competition. They don't have all the sexy looks and top notch trick stuff inside but they fly well. And can be trimmed and setup to where they will out fly your skills for many many years to come.

By the way I'm not Sponsored by them and I'm not flying their airplanes...I have flown other peoples models including my Father inlaw owns a F1 with the F2 mods on it. I would recommend these models to anyone flying AMA pattern. When you get to the requirements of the newer FAI (international) sequences the requirements change a little. But this is only at the top skill levels and at that level you are competing with the best flyers in the world...Personal Preferences really take over!

Troy

Bobby....

I flew a Focus I last year and it was a great plane. I had a 3M 1.40 in it (a great motor).
I really think as a pattern newbie, you can't go wrong with a Focus. Keep in mind also, if pattern doesn't stick,
the Focus will sale it's self.

Great plane!

Pugs

Pugsley-RCU

I can't seem to find a website for the Focus does any one know the website address?

We need to get together one weekend to fly, were almost neighbors.

http://www.piedmontmodels.com/

look under news

tnewman

Unless I read wrong they refered to the focus II as a kit plane. do they make a ARF of this plane?

Bobby,

The Focus is an ARF, good flying one I might add.

Come on up to Huntsville week after next, and I'll let you fly my Focus.

Don

We're not sure of the Focus II weight at this point. The models landed in San Francisco yesterday - we'll have them in North Carolina soon then we'll know for sure. The first prototype based on the new design came in at around 10 1/2 lbs which is what the Focus generally weighed. I went to see the contractor with some new specs to reduce weight. I'm flying a prototype from our contractor based on that update and it built so light I debated mentioning the number in my "news" update on our web site. It appears the weight reduction was successful, but the unknown factor is tolerance. Given material variance, some planes will be somewhat heavier/lighter than others. We'll see.

We have our own ideas about what goes into a world class airplane and sexy is not tops on the list. You need a plane from a designer who knows what he's doing, a stiff airframe, a reliable engine with good power, proper trim and accurate controls. Beyond that, it's up to the guy pushing the sticks. 1st place at this year's USA Nationals in both FAI and Masters was won by pilots flying ARFs, a Focus and a Zen. It's a result that did not please a few people.

Troy,

What would you say the top ten pattern planes are for F3A? I have had a five year layoff and am getting back into pattern and am looking at the Eclipse, but I don't know how good it is.

Thanks,


Jeff

Bob,
You asked about the Zen series. I flew a Tai-Ji .60 for a season and would stand behind that airplane as a solid F3A platform for starting out. Less expensive than the Piedmont models, it also has one advantage for a flyer not overly familiar with F3A set-ups and that is simply that it is very easy to set up well with conventional equipment. It flies honestly and is very smooth. It is not a wide bodied design but by no means is it small either. While fine with the YS91, the YS110 would be the ultimate choice. It is large enough to present well in the air and flies well enough that good thumbs can pilot it into a high finishing place in any but the more advanced classes. I understand the Zen series improved upon it but cannot personally vouch for it. It is worth your consideration.

To narrow your choices, take your budget, check out the various choices while adding in motor, pipe, header costs, and the best servos you can afford (I would try to go Futaba or JR for no question accuracy on servos) before you take an airplane that leaves your budget short on other quality accesories that make a real difference in the air.

Mark

Because I'm so Politically correct...I'll answer it this way.

Top 10 models at the worlds

#1 Zn Synergy
#2 PL Partner
#3 Double Vision Bipe (all wood Japan model but PL is making them now too)
#4-5-6 Custom built Japanese models..One was a Bipe in 4th..Astral X, Austar Z, Narlar Bipe and so on.
#7 Rhapsody (german composite model) flown as an Electric ...very cool new technology
#8 PL Lazulite
#9 Tucano (Own German design that I know of..perhaps its a kit)
#10 PL Lazulite

Ok that being said there are many models out there that fly very well.

I really like the quality of the French stuff it is top notch. I have seen and have worked on the other guys and its just not there....some come closer than others but no dice! For kit quality

There are a couple other new models on the scene late this year or showed up at the Worlds....ZN Line Supreme (11th at the worlds), PL has the Partner and Lazulite...

I think no specific order:

Syngery
Smaragd
Partner
Supreme
Lazulite
Enigma

are at the top of my list

Next comes not really a specific order:

Hydaway (ZN)
Temptation (Piedmont)
Focus (Piedmont)
Eclipse (CA Models--Smaragd Clone)
Fashion (ZN old but flies well)
Alliance (ZN old version of Synergy)
Angel's Shadow (new wing version, Techno Hobby Russia)

Then the Bipes


But this is my list....I think that any of these models are good. Some better than others for various reasons but you can do well with any of the models above. I'm not a bipe fan yet...but they are interesting.

Troy

Best pattern plane - no such animal. Lots of good choices depending on your building skills. The cover of the latest K-Factor shows Dave Lockhart with his 2 EMC pattern ships. He flies FAI and his been very successful even though the design is 'ancient' by pattern standards.
Pick an airplane you like. Build it straight, light and durable (the last 2 are NOT mutually exclusive). Put the best equipment in it you can afford - right down to the tailwheel - then practice, practice, practice. Remember: great airplanes don't make great pilots; great pilots make airplanes great.
Good Luck and enjoy!

PS there are 5 US manufacturers which can provice a kit in your price range:
Piedmont
Dick Hanson Models
PAC
Aero-Slave
..... I can't remember the last one, but I think it is owned by Lamar Blair (can anybody help me on this one)

Hello
flywilly, did you mean RC Model enterprises, that is manufactures of the Silhouette and Carrera-X
Website:
http://home.att.net/~rc-enterprises/rcme_001.htm

That's the one - THANKS

Would anyone recommend a YS .61 long stroke for the Tai Ji 60 as a powerplant or should I go with an OS 91 FX Surpass?

The Tai Ji 60 has a rather long nose--I flew mine with a YS 91 FZ with stock muffler on kit engine mount--had to add about 8 oz. lead as far back as I could get it; actually cut into fuse under the horizontal stab and buried lead near the tail post. Had battery mounted at back of wing cut-out, behind trailing edge a couple of inches.

Even though the plane was heavy--the 91 FZ gave good vertical (APC 14x10 at ~ 8700 rpm).

The gear struts are too soft--bend on every landing, even the good ones.

The 2 stroke 60/61 with pipe would help with CG control without adding so much lead.

The MVVS 91 rear exhaust with pipe should be a great set-up for the Tai Ji 60.

My Zen 120 with Thunder Tiger 120 RP with TT header/pipe balanced perfectly with fuel tank on CG and NMP 2000Mah Li Ion batt just in front of tank. Also, the gear struts are much larger/stronger that Tai Ji struts.

DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY INFO ON A PATTERN PLANE CALLED A BEAT-ON 90? I RECENTLY GOT ONE AND WAS LOOKING FOR INFO ON ITS SET UP CG,THROWS ECT. THANKS

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