is that OC or farenheit

temps are in F. 120 C would melt the batteries and the occupant of the car

Hello Tony,
can I have question about new TP 5700 -5s3p pack,
what continues discharge are able do this NEW TP batteries 10s3P (50-60amp?)

I would like to buy some but I need to know this information because I need for my engine about 60Ah on full throttle.
What amp do you have on full throttle?


Thanks



Ales

The new packs are rated at 10C continuous. So the pack you mentioned should be able to do 57 amps continuous, of course higher in bursts. My set-up with the new cells has checked with a whattmeter at 56 amps.

Hope this helps!

Tony, are you saying that you draw 56 A static with 14 XL and 22x12?

Did you try/consider 13 XL?

Thanks,

David

I think he meant 65A. 13XL with this prop would prob be in the mid 70's I'm guessing.

13xl spins faster, so you can use a smaller prop. The faster the motor spins, the more back emf, less current which means it's more efficient. Apparently Mr Hacker made the 13xl specifically for F3a.

Tony: I finally resolve my problem with posting to this forum! I've been putting off a motor selection for my PL Partner because of some degree of uncertainty about the best alternative. I recall you recently replaced your C50 14XL with a 15XL and a 24 x 12 APCE prop. European flyers seem to have settled on the 13XL with a slightly smaller prop, and I've even seen reference to some pattern flyers utilizing a 12XL. I have a 12XL spinning a 20 x 13 APCE in a 10.6 lb IMAC style YAK and never have to go above 2/3 throttle even for extended vertical maneuvers. The Hacker motor/prop combinations being used for pattern seem to draw about the same current from a 10S LiPo pack....65 to 68 amps. I'd appreciate your thoughts regarding higher motor winds and larger props vs fewer winds and smaller props.

Mike Moritko
Papillion, NE

Sorry I haven't responded sooner, but here goes.

A 14XL on a 22-12 prop with 0 advance timing and using TP Gen 2 Lite batteries measure a current draw at full power of 56-58 amps on my model. Set to the +3 degrees of timing I'm using now it pulls about 66-68 amps.

As to the 13XL, I've talked to Sean Plummer at Hacker USA and he has told me that they do not recommend that motor for pattern. It pulls too much current using the sort of props we want to fly. I have tried the 15XL, and while I was inititally impressed, I've done some more back to back testing and I still prefer the 14XL. It's the best combination of power and speed.

BTW, Sean has told me that the 15XL is actually the most efficient motor. It is true that if you let an electric motor run at higher RPM it will draw less current. But since all the C50 Acro's are using the same ratio gearbox, it is a matter of finding what wind motor will turn the best working prop the most efficiently. Right now that seems to be the 14XL.

Tony,

do you use STOCK motor, or is it in any way modified. Also, how many flights have you made on one motor, and what maintenance (and after how many flights) if any. What defects you had (if any).
Need to know before making the big step...

So far I use prototype Czech outrunner (Kral) on my 4,4 kg Cayenne model, with 2s 2600 PolyQuest. With 20x11, the static draw is 55 A. The power is good, but not great - perfect for calm day, but a bit lacking when the wind picks up...

I suspect that going to 22x12 in itself might help... and geared motor in general is supposed to be slightly more efficient than an outrunner (dont ask me why). 14XL seems to be my choice for now.

David

Hi TonyF

Strange you should say that, must be different over, most of the electric F3a guys over here use the 13xl. Wolfgang and Roland Matt both used the 13XL, at the eurochamps.
Cheers

And they were using 22x12 APC-E props on their 13XL setups too. That is one high power setup.

/Erik

All I can say is that it is not recommended by Hacker USA. I had heard that the Matt's did burn up some stuff running that set-up. I do not know the details. I did hear they were using some throttle dual rate switches to reduce the current draw. This does not run the system at it's highest efficiency, and reduced efficiency translates into heat in the motor, controller and battery. Maybe I should try a 13XL but right now I can't imagine it being much better then the 14Xl I'm using now. The upline vertical is very impressive!

HI TonyF

I heard the guy who used a dual rate switch was whoever used the AXI motor because it drew over 70amps at full power (used full power for the upline snap etc). But might have been Matt and Roland too, but I didn't hear anything.
I use a 20x11e and draw 60 amps, so a 22x12e I'm not supprised would kill the batteries. I might try a 21x12e (65 amps) because Noel Barret used that with great succes. He wrote the magazine article which stated Mr Hacker had made the 13xl for F3a. But then he could be wrong.

My plane at the weekend [link=http://rcgroups.com/gallery/data/506/34526smaragd3rd.wmv]electric smaragd[/link]

Cheers

Anyone know how much more weight the electric motor setup is compared to the typical IC engine.

German magazine FMT compared it. With the tank filled up, the IC powered plane was about 50 grams heavier if my memory serves me right. But since they weigh in without fuel, I think the difference was something like 300 grams. That was with the older TP 10s3p Gen 2 batteries though and not the new Gen 2 Lites (I think...).

/Erik

Tony,
Congratulations on an excellent finish at the nats. I am converting a pattern plane to electric and I would like to know if you would change anything in the way you did your motor mount. Would you still use the same carbon fiber materials? Same design?

Thanks
Mike Harrison

Tony,what throttle trim idle are you using throughout the flight? Just the amount to get the plane rolling or more? Thank you for your consideration.

I don't know how often Tony gets on here so I can sorta answer this one. Tony's Partner idles enough to spin the prop, but not enough to move on the ground.
Also dr.mike, Tony did build another partner and I believe he said its 6 ounces lighter and he liked it so much that he flew it at the nats with little flight time. I believe they are identical, but I'm not sure.
He told me he has picked up the abbra as his next plane. I hope he posts pic's when he build's it.
Kris

Hi Guys,

Mike,

When I did my 2nd Partner just before the Nats the only change I made was to use .062 carbon sheet for the aft spider support instead of the .093 I used on the 1st. Everything else was identical. And thanks for the kind comment, it was good to be back at the Nats!

Barye,

The idle trim I use depends on the conditions. If it is calm, I use a minimum idle trim, just enough to turn the prop over. If it is windy, I raise the idle trim to keep the plane from getting too slow on downlines. That helps me maintain shapes in the wind.

Just as an update, Partner #1 now has 766 flights and #2, which I did use at the Nats, has 38. #2 started off so well that I had to use it in the Nats even though I don't like flying brand new models in big competitions. It came out at 10 lb 7 oz with the 5300 mah packs. #1 is 10 lb 13 oz with 5300's.

So far, the new Pro-Lite cells seem to be holding up very well. I have a 6,000 mah Pro-Lite pack that has 60 cycles on it and it shows no degradation compared to newer packs. The 5300's are showing the same pattern but the most I have on one of those is 30 cycles.

I do have an Abbra I am going to try. Jerry Budd's looks very good, so I am hopeful it will be a good model. But it will have to fly very well to replace my Partner's.

Have fun!

Tony

Tony,

how does you Hacker hold up? In your Partner #1, do you still have the original unit? What do you do for maintenance? How often?

It looks like you might have the most extensive experience when it comes to the lifespan of the Hacker...

thanks,

David Kyjovsky

ps - asking because I have one too (14 XL); about 80 flights so far - the gearbox has been cleaned and regreased after some 50 flights - looks good so far..

Tony: It seems folks are beginning to clean and lubricate the C50 gear boxes after 60 or so flights. Can you recommend a lubricant? Also, do you still feel shock mounting the engine is necessary? My C50 12XL is not shock mounted and except for the very slight "whine" from the gear box, I can barely hear it in the air. In fact, I wouldn't want it any quieter as the sound of the gear box provides feedback regarding the power setting. There is also no vibration in the airframe. I seems like a lot of extra work (i.e., shock mounting) although I have built exactly the same mount for my Symphony as you did for the Partner. Just wondered if you will continue using the rubber grommets in your mount. Thanks.

Mike Moritko

Tony,

As all I'm very intrigued by the electric option and eager for it to become a reality for me.

Something you said caught my attention. You have a total of 804 flights between the two Partners. You stated that your 5300 mah packs have a max of 30 cycles and you have a 6000 mah pack with 60 cycles. What is the max number of cycles you have on any one battery? Since you used the 6000 mah pack as an example of a pack that has a lot of flights I'll "jump the gun" and assume that you don't have too many packs with significantly more flights on them (I could be totally wrong so please correct me if so).

Assuming you are putting on an average of 60 flights per battery you must have been through 15 or more flight packs by now. That's around $10,000 in batteries!

Am I completely off base or is the electric option really that expensive?

Thanks,
Keith B

Tony,
Thanks for the response. There is a load of information here. I must read through it a couple of times to digest it all. It is all very helpful. Once again, a very impressive comeback at the Nats.
Mike