Never mind-I changed my mind. You know what they say "if you can't say something nice-------------"

tommy s

kitman, If your are going to be that harsh you should at least use your real name, but I am not going to dispute what you said. If your real name is Kitman then I apologize.

Tony Quist

I have a Fantasy built from a ARC kit. I have a Eclipse built from a basic kit. I am building a second Eclipse from a basic kit. Here is my findings from a quality standpoint:

Fantasy
* had to reset the stab and wing tubes to get proper alignment with the rudder.
* had to reset the firewall to reduce the down thrust to approx. 1.7 deg
* had to remove the individual elevator servos and change to pull-pull to achieve proper balance
* this was a very light weight fuse. Final weight came in at 10# - 2oz
* very good quality of sheeting and fiberglass work on the fuse

Eclipse #1

* should have reset the firewall to reduce the down thrust to approx. 1.7 deg, now @ 2.5 deg, have some down line issues
* the fuse was very heavy at 33 oz, too much weight in the tail
* with pull pull elevator and using the wing tube location on the fues, had to add 4oz on nose weight to achieve balance
* changed to CF landing gear and wing tube, Final weight came in at 10# - 3oz
* very good quality of sheeting and fiberglass work on the fuse
* has a bit of roll couple with rudder

Eclipse #2
* hand picked light weight fuse at 29 oz (total weight fuse, canopy and chin cowl)
* very good quality on fuse and sheeting
* changed the right thrust and down thrust to match my Smaragd
* changed the stab and wing locations to match the vertical off set between engine, wing and stab to match my Smaragd
* will continue to use CF landing gear and wing tube
* projected final weight 9# - 14oz

My conclusions with these kits is as follows:
* at $499, the basic kit is a good value for the money
* you can not use stock settings and achieve the quality of flight performance demanded in Masters and FAI
* with some relatively minor changes in set-up, the Eclipse will be a great plane (it already fly well, just bringing it up to the flight characteristics on a Smaragd)

Just my thoughts
Steve

Kitman,
It seems to be that this has come a war between two factories.
It’s not like that, both PL Prod and ZN Line manufacture very good Kits. In fact, we know their owners and they are very nice people.
But we can’t help clearing some points.
We want to tell you some details about how is the CAmodel job by this days:

1)We contracted an assistant who talks and writes perfect English (this used to be a problem for us), so if anybody wants to get in contact with us you can do it in the 10.00 a.m. to 6.00p.m. Argentina time to the next phone numbers: +54-11-4652-5454 or +54-11-4652-0036

2)We give an answer to every single email that we receive.

3)We improved to the extreme the quality controls, we have two exclusive dedicated people doing this task.

4)We improved a lot our fiber quality and finishing of our models. This is logical because CAmodel is a company who wants to offer the best products with the best possible prices.

5)We want to tell you how the Fantasy and Eclipse building process is today. First of all the balsa sheet are especially selected for being used in the wings, stab and rudder sheeting. Then the sheets are glued with epoxi, every sheet is placed on a balance in order to get a perfect balance between the right and the left side of the airplane. We also select carefully the balsa block for the wing tip, this provides a better performance flying.
Every Kit includes the wing tube, stab and wing adjuster from “GATOR�, we consider this very good quality even the best. Every fuse is controlled and ID numbered with manufacture date, and obviously weighted. This way we know the weight of the model before it’s delivered.

6)I’m attaching pictures of the new painting of the Eclipse and Fantasy ARF that we are manufacturing now.

7)Finally I’d like to tell you that the airplane that Mark is flying now is NOT an Eclipse but a Fantasy. As I said, the Mark’s reports and the ones from other pilots can be found at our web site www.camodel.com.ar

We hope not to create any argue so we can dedicate to produce and not too much clearing facts in the forum.

Thanks
CAmodel Staff

I have debated whether or not to reply, but decided to give my two cents. I am very close with Camodel. They invited me to their factory, brought me to there fling field a number of times, and even brought me to their home. While I cannot personally say that every single plane is top notch, because I can't see them, I can say that every plane that I have seen at their factory, and the ones that I have, are all near perfect. I have not had any problems. If I do, I will not hesitate to contact them, as I know that they will be there for me. Every single e-mail that I have sent has been replied to.
As for the Fantasy and the Eclipse, it is very hard to put the two planes into perspective. What makes me think is that Marcelo came 31st (I think) in the worlds with that plane, probably stock. I am not sure now, but I think that the Fantasy costs less than $400. A PL or ZN will knock you back alot more. The planes might not have the advantages of CF, but for a presheeted, fairly competitive plane, I believe that the value for money is alot better. However, I have not owned a PL or Zn, and I missed the Fantasy's first flights by a day or two. I have seen Eclipses and Fantasy's at their factory, and they were real nice to my untrained eye. I saw eclipses fly and I heard about how the Fantasy flies, and they I am impressed with the planes.
CA do seem to have one or two bad ones slipping through, but for a company that is in the end rather young to the likes of PL, I believe that good things will happen for them.
If you have a quality issue, my impartial advise is to give them an e-mail. I am pretty sure that they will do their best to resolve the issue for you. Obviously I can't garauntee, but from talking to them, they have a driving passion to solve all the things, one step at a time.
This is my view, and nothing more, but I think that their planes are worth it.
Robert Telford.

Forgot to add, that I think $400 is straight from them, in Argentina.

I ordered an Eclipse kit from CA Models a couple of weeks ago. It "arrived" last week. The plane was almost destroyed by the delivery company, and many parts were missing - presumably somewhere between customs and my house. (the box was opened and resealed) I immediately emailed Marcelo to advise him of the damage and emailed him pictures too. I heard back from him right away. He sent me a new kit last week while we get the matter resloved with the delivery company. I cannot expect anyone to offer better service than that. Marcelo has been in touch w/ me almost daily via email to let me know what is going on. From what I could tell from the first kit, the quailty is very nice, and seems well worth the money.
I think that a lot of the gripes that some have is comparing them to PL and ZN kits. What some people want is not just their money's worth, they want MORE than their money's worth. They want to pay $500 and get a $1200 kit, and complain if they don't get it. Sorry- if you get a $500 kit for $500 then you should be happy. I'd like to pay for a Chevy and get a Lexus too, but I'm not going to complain when I get my Chevy since that's all I paid for.

HI AGAIN!
lots off answers thanks to all!
but ...how is the weigth off the fuse compare to others?
i know its not a carbon\kevlar but i know it has been problems to get ZN fiberglass fuses under 5 kg limit!
Rune

I disagree with Mr. Kitman’s reply. I’ve been in aeromodelism for many years and now I don’t let myself impress by what some people could say in this forums in order to do publicity or discredit other companies.
If you allow me, and with no intention to bother anybody, I’d like to tell my personal experience. I’ve been flying for a long time a Smaragd and I feel very likely to it. It only had one single problem, and it was to fly in windy days. Those days it was too difficult to fly it straight and I had to use full power almost all the time. Then I decided to buy a ZN Enigma in Carbon fiber KIT and a CA Eclipse ARC in fiber, for what I paid less than the ZN kit. I’ve been flying for 3 months the Eclipse and I’m very glad with it. The Eclipse has a very straight and precise fly, and wind doesn’t affect him at all. The model is weighting 4700 grms. All I did in this model was to change the dural landing gear for a carbon fiber one. For the installation I contacted Marcelo Colombo and he always give me an answer, I’m very glad for this, because there’re not many companies that provide this type of support.
Two weeks ago I received my second Eclipse, a Kit this time, and I can assure that the quality is excellent and better the price.
I’ll be building up the Eclipse and the Enigma and I promise to place construction pics step by step and its differences in flying.
Today I can make a comparison and show you some pics with the difference between the two kits. But I’d like to say beforehand that I’m very disappointed because for the ZN Fuse that I paid much more, found that had too many defects on the quality of the fuse fiber, I can work it out but it will take me a lot of extra work ours during painting time.


Comparison between the Eclipse and the Enigma:
1)The sheeting quality both of the CA and ZN are excellent.
2)In fiber quality, CA has my vote.
3)Balsa quality is good in both models.
4)Plywood quality is acceptable in both models, but I prefer CA one because it’s laser cutted.
5)Wings: I prefer the Eclipse ones because they are plug in with wing tube.
6)As I said before, I prefer a carbon fiber landing gear, and the ZN one is very good

My final conclusion is:
I think we should support new companies that are doing things well, It has no sense to pay double for a similar characteristics model. I suggest the Eclipse as a great F3A airplane and finally I think we shouldn’t let ourselves influence by those who probably has interests created on any company.

Marcelo,

Please have someone from your company contact me about the damaged Eclipse I received. It was been several weeks and no resolution to the problem.

Jeff

[email protected]

Jeff,
I'm sure Marcelo couldn't get in contact with you for any reason, as you know he's in Miami at the moment. Maybe you prefer to phone him, you can find him at CAmodel USA, the telephone numner is 305-651-1362 and the email is [email protected]

Hope to work out your problem soon.

I wish I could get a reply from CA on my "not" acceptable wings. I was ensured the kit was inventoried for quality. However, there were several blemishes on the fuselage and the wings were warped. I've posted more pictures under the latest eclipse thread. I mean all I want is a new set of wings is this unreasonable?

I have two good 2M airframes to fly this year, I hav´nt given too much thought to the next airframe: maybe a Focus II, a Temptation, or maybe an Eclipse, so I come the RCU string on that subject. . . .
Frankly I have holding off on commenting on this string for a couple of weeks now. But, what the heck here´s my 2cW, on a Friaday afternoon.
As a Brit, living in Mexico, I probably have a have a middle of the road POV! Robert Telford´s quote sums it up well. A good plane you can make make really good. with a few changes in set-up. Troy Newman and a number of other senior level Pattern pilots have said much the same. Add to that the price of $499 plus s&h, for the basic kit and that adds up to a pretty good airframe package, say just below $3,000 when all the engine, servos and h-ware packages are included, just under the going rate for a full house 2M setup these days.
As for warped wings and damage in transit, from what I have seen and heard Marcelo Colombo does a pretty good job of replacing stuff and putting things right.
As has been mentioned numerous times here on RCU, the airframe kit, RTC and ARF business is one tough business these days and for the small Pattern and IMAC plane supplier and one from Argentina, even tougher still! But those guys are hanging in there, in spite of the beating they have been taking on these pages. I think they are for real:They supprt the NSRCA and advertise in the K-Factor, things like that are appreciated by the Pattern community.
Some have mentioned that Marcelo "only" came 31st, or something, in the F3A World Champs in Poland last year. Well, to me, that means only 30 people in the WORLD have the right to question his Pattern credentials!!
Hmmmm, maybe I just might take a closer look at the Eclipse, for my next airframe.

Message to Marcelo: Animo Muchachos! Muchas felicidades por todos sus afuerzos tan impresionantes. Un fuerte abrazo, Rodney NSRCA #2906.

CA Model,

Could you tell me how I can get a Fantasy (and an eclipse) model here in the U.K. Will anybody ship to the u.k in Kit form? I must commend this company for (what I can see) brining some sense in price back into this hobby. As for your quality issues...if the manufacturer listens to your complaints and do their best to improve their products then please use constructive criticism on this forum. Never lose sight of the fact that YOUR findings and YOUR opinions are exactly that...YOURS.

Justin

If it is any help, here is the link for the German importer http://www.bart-modellbau.de

No idea if they are any good or not. One of these days I'll get a CA Model. Epsilon and 24% Extra are top of list though.

hi boy
pics from sinsheim fair
regards Mirco

Its been about a week now and I have sent several emails to CA with pictures and I still haven't got a response. One of the resons I bought the CA model is that there was plenty of evidence that they stood behind there product, I'm not sure what went wrong in my case. I continue to try.

I finally got word from CA that they would send me a new set of Fantasy wings. They said they have been out of town at some model show in Germany.

Big post on CA models here. Anyone got a link to their site?? Nice lookin planes!

Thanks

camodel.com.ar