Trying to gather some info....if you have ever THOUGHT of playing in Pattern, or have and LEFT, please fill out the survey. Wanting to gather info on the whys, wherefores, and whodunits.....

This is a multiple-choice survey....click as many answers as apply, and feel free to email me direct with extra info, if you like.

Interesting results hey Bob


Looks like many of you guys are interested.....

You guys should chime in with your opinions also



Troy Newman

Interesting!

You forgot weight restriction to limiting (option)
should always be a least 10 options.

You don't need to spend a huge amount of money to be competitive. Sponsership makes it look like you NEED the latest digi servo or the new super engine. There are plenty of designs out there that allow you to be competitive without breaking the bank!

ernies - that's included in the "rules" response.

Laois - We're asking here about the "PERCEIVED" reasons folks walk away or choose not to play. You're correct, and I agree, but that's from "inside" the Game....those OUTSIDE the Game can only make decisions on perceptions.

Marketing is overcoming perceptions and replacing them with fact.

The Game needs some.

Thats exactly what I mean, they look at the top sponsered guys and think that you need the top gear!

I chose IMAC, on the poll. I chose it because pattern is sooooo boring to me. IMAC has freestyle, and the mneuvers are much more fun. Also, the pattern ships are too easy to fly. Just my opinion.

I wondered if given the option if IMAC would get any hits. AMA does not recognize IMAC as an option and considers it a part of pattern. They do have some things in common. Changing the sequences on a yearly basis also helps. Freestlye helps and the looks of a scale plane gets more attention from spectators who like to see the "pilot" in the cockpit. Large scale aerobatic planes aren't hard to fly either. Also they can exceed pricewise the very finest of pattern planes. The funny thing is the size of the plane is not judged.

Yes, I added the IMAC option to the poll.

EXCAP232

I like flying pattern but I also like the convenience's of ARFs with the current wight limits company's cant make price competitive products legally. Thanks Mark,

I personally love pattern and compete (IMAC too.) I pushed real hard this summer to build local interest in our laid back SPA contest. I wrote stuff for the newsletter, stirred interest with other pilots, etc. I did manage to substantially increase attendance in the contest from prior years, but a few who I was 99% sure would show up didn't. I later asked them why.

The major reply I got was that the pilots said they wern't comfortable with the pattern. I think some misunderstood that you get a caller than can help. I think others were concerned they would make a mistake and be embarrassed. Others said they needed to practice flying around (without purpose I gathered) so they can get better before they learn new tricks... that one baffled me. Keep in mind these are responses from persons who have never flown pattern before.

Now my response... I almost hate to say it, but there is a stereotype I have heard for pattern pilots. You know, the stuck up I'm better than you attitude and you flew that wrong, etc. Maybe that attitude comes from the competition... I don't know. Yes, most pattern pilots are better than the general RC population. Problem is that attitude is a real turnoff to those looking to get their feet wet. Newbies don't want attitude... they need encouragement and helpful advice in small doses. Not all pattern folk are stuck up (hope I'm not), but there are more than average IMO with that stuck up attitude. Surprisingly, the IMAC pilots I have met did not have the stuck up attitude. Just my personal observations.

Ya know, that's what I just don't get at all. The "pattern guys are stuck up" stuff.

I just completed my first full season of pattern competition. I attended 8 contests in the southeast, in Ga, Florida, Alabama and Tennessee. I'm still looking for that stuck up guy, because I haven't met him. I've seen some serious competitors, but I haven't met an arrogant jerk yet. What am I missing? Is it a regional thing?

On the flip side of the coin, I have met quite a few IMAC competitors, a few nationally ranked. These guys were the biggest buttheads I have ever had the displeasure of running across.

Now I'm sure they aren't the norm any more than these mysterious stuck up pattern guys are. But why the rep? I read a couple of paragraphs in the Scale Aerobatics column of MA a little while back, and the comments were the same. "I met some pattern guys and they were jerks, but then met some IMAC guys and they were saints." What the????? Come on guys, that doesn't wash.

Next year I'm going to my first Nats, and I'll be sure to be on the look out for these pattern guys that are causing so much grief.

Seriously though, I chuckle when I read stuff like this, because I wonder if there's really any grounds for that rep, or if it's just a bad rumor that needs to die a horrible death. Because it's simply not true, not around here anyway. I'm not saying these guys don't exist, I just wonder where they're hiding.

I have a zillion thoughts on this subject of why more people don't fly pattern, but your eyes would bleed before you finished reading it. So I'll save it. Heh.

Not picking on you man, I just don't get it.

-Mike Hester

The guys here in Ireland are really nice guys, so I guess I'm lucky that way. (I can be a bit of a handfull sometimes! )

Welcome, Mike Hester! Excellent post. And one that could be duplicated for about ANY area of our competitive games....Combat, Scale, Warbirds, Fun Fly, Gliders...etc..

One aspect of "group" behavior is that individuals in groups tend to align closest with others of similar interests and experiences. That's why they call baseball teams "teams"...

I think it's helpful to consider that sometimes "attitude" is mixed with "intensity". I've seen guys in the middle of field stripping their Super Knockarund 60 sport plane for some reason or other who made it clear THEY didn't want to socialize.

Timing is everything. Competitive folks practice, the more competitive, the more intensely. Eventually so intense that they VANISH from the "locals". Nobody knows where they go, but you see them at events.

Maybe THAT is part of the problem. Airspace management and flight risk during practice (whether scale, warbird, Imac, Pattern, racing) can be a REAL challenge for the serious competitor. Unfortunately, those are the guys who have the most to teach/share, and they have the same time limitations as everyone else.

Interesting conundrum, and this is a GREAT survey, RCU'ers !!! Thanks for continuing to respond.

Interesting, but I'll bet you'd get a similar response if the poll was for IMAC or any other rule book event. Ffew pilots are willing to compete, and the reasons are generally similar. Too bad, really. They're missing out on a lot fun. There is also a sort of "Band of Brothers" comradarie among competition pilots that you can only get by laying in on the line if front of judges. Winning or losing isn't all that important, just the fact that you've been there.

Bob- - just take your 40 and build a gas powered legal pattern model .
This really puts the fun back into flying.
A guy called yesterday saying he was having a "throwing away " party for his big glow engines.
(I know - if it hasn't been done by the sponsered guys - it must not work--)

I voted " not much support or interest in area. I' tried to drum up interest in our club for SPA but got no where.

MHester - Now he's in an area that's got a lot of pattern activity and support. I know, I used to live in Woodstock and flew at the old Cherokee field and the Paulding field. I never ran into a guy that was not willing and happy to help a new pattern guy.

Too expenive = A glass/foam pattern kit these days starts at $350.00 and only goes up from there. Stick an engine in it for a minimum of $500.00, then add in all of the wood and hardware (including landing gear of choise) and you're up to $1K before you even stick a radio in it. I personally miss the days of the $125.00 kit and a piped YS 60. Total airframe investment was less than $500.00 before radio.

Not enough time = I do not have the time anymore to dedicate every weekend to practice followed by a full weekend of travel to contests.

I love the planes and flying the pattern. It was never boring to me.

John

I have a Norwegian friend I talk to alot, and their way is so much simpler. He can't afford a top dollar job, so what does he do, he designs his own. Thats it, he has saved the cost of a kit.
And who says you need a big OS or YS? I saw a guy with an Irvine 150 at the W/C, and the new OS 160 looks good too.
Radio, you don't need the newest, best and most expensive Digi servos in your model, I have seen guys with the old Futaba coreless jobs that are half the price and still do the job. (I didn't see a difference in his flying, and he didn't notice a big change.)
And of coarse, you can buy the engine, pipe, servos, airframe, etc. second hand. There are a heck of alot of good ones floating around.
Pattern will be as expensive as you want it to be, but people forget that its all about fun in the end!

Hey everyone, Kris Kovanda here. I fly in D3 with Mike Hester. I'm 17 and in my 2 years of Competing in Pattern I have never found a stuck up person or someone who gave grudges against people. Everyone is really helpful and nice. I enjoy it very much.

This year i attended teh NATS. It was great so many pilots of such a high caliber" even in Intermedaite". But everyone from the intermedaite flyers to the best FAI plots at the nats" QuiQue, Peter, Kirk, Sean, Mike H, Bryan H, etc...." are as nice as can be and enjoy talking to fellow fliers about everything. I don't get the feeling Im tryin to get brushed off by the big guys or anything like that everyone is as nice as can be. I can't wait to go back.

I personally havent met any IMAC pilots( I live in the Florida Panhandle) so I can't really say anything about them. I would like to fly a IMAC contest to see how it is. I love the freestyle stuff also just my pattern plane doesnt do it well( Hydeout)<----For Sale by the way.

Kris Kovanda
D3 Pattern
[email protected]
Email if interested

DJ, you are quite correct, I do live in an area with a lot of support and nice people. But truth be known, it only took one. All I needed were some questions answered; I had the determination and drive to do it for many years. I just couldn't find the info I needed (or felt I needed really).

There are local contests all over the US. To me they are worth the effort and the drive, even if I could only make one contest a year. I really consider myself fortunate to have so much activity around here (next season it looks like we'll have over 10 contests within driving distance!)

The cost of pattern....now that one is a real sticky point. Personally, I couldn't see spending $2000 on a state-of-the-art carbon/nomex airframe. So I got a set of plans and some wood and scratch built my own. I saved a fortune. And funny thing is, around here, in sportsman, these guys aren't flying Kaos's and Ultra Sports. They are flying state-of-the-art 2 meter pattern planes. And they aren't just "testing the waters", they mean business. Sportsman was the hottest class in the southeast this season. And at each contest, the numbers grew.

Now is the point I should mention that I took my scratch built balsa plane and I won all 8 contests this year and I'm the district 3 champion. Let me re-emphasize....with a scratch built wood plane, against carbon fiber and Nomex planes, and guys practicing 5 days a week. One was flying a Storm that Jason Shulman used to fly. It was professionally built.

The answer to being successful in pattern lies at the bottom of a stack of fuel. You can spend as much money as you like on pattern, or as little. Cass Underwood, a local guy, competes STRONGLY in advanced with a .60 sized Daddy Rabbit. The catch? If you expect to win, you simply have to practice more.

And that brings up time and effort. Nobody can solve this probem except the individual. Each person has to ask themselves what they are willing to spend in the way of effort. If it's not enough to compete at all, then so be it, that's thier choice. if they are willing to spend a little time but not a lot, they need to realize that they can still have a blast, but don't expect first place all the time, because there are a lot of people out there that live for this stuff. That's simply the nature of competition itself, and should NOT be frowned upon.

And there's guys like me that just live for it. I love it. I can't get enough. If I'm not practicing or building, I'm teaching a new guy how to do a round loop and fly a straight line. The biggest problem I have to be aware of is burn-out. I am aware of it, and I won't let hat happen. But to me, even if I wasn't winning, it would still be worth every second, every penny, every mile driven. I'll get my tail handed to me soon. And I'll laugh, smile, pat the guy that won on the back, and go practice and build some more. And learn. Always learn!

Anyway, that's my $.02 on the subject. Pattern, like anything else, is what you make of it. But it is very demanding in the area of effort. And some people simply don't have the time, or aren't interested in that kind of effort for flying R/C planes. And that's fine! But when that one guy has that interested, puzzled look....we need to be sure he gets the right info he needs to be successful and has fun at whatever level he chooses.

-Mike Hester

Mike,

Better watch out 2003 D3 contests are gonna be some tight competition and NO MORE over weight planes for me. Mine's at like 9.75-10.25 or sumtin like that i dunno right now i'm just waiting for it and them I'ma start practicing.

Kris Kovanda
D3 Pattern
[email protected]
AOL Instant Messager - FroztyLudeRacer

HYDEOUT 4 SALE- flown to 6th place at the NATS this year. Email for details or message me. $900 for plane and servos NO ENGINE

Heh. That's what it's all ABOUT!!!!

Kris is one to watch. My money is on him to take the Nats in intermediate next year, if he quits racing cars and chasing skirts that is.....ahh to be 17 again!!

Don't fret Kris, I have a new monster on the table. All wood (of course), with new wings and stab, and about 10 lbs or less. I expect intermediate will be tough, and there's a lot of talent and drive involved. I'll be proud if I can stay in the top 3-5 down here.

Oops, didn't mean to hijack the thread!!! We now return to your regularly scheduled program...

-Mike

Mike get on AOL so we can chat.

I voted no time. This is also the reason I've stopped flying IMAC contests. It's hard enough for me to steal practice time, but since two day contests have become the norm I can no longer compete. So I just practice.....by myself.....no caller....no one else in my club wants to compete and I don't have time to travel to other clubs for practice either.....

Wiz