Throw Meter
11-24-2005 | 06:31 AM
#1
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From: Alba Iulia, ROMANIA
Throw Meter
Has anyone use this throw meter for wing, stabs ang engine incidence?
http://www.aeroperfect.com/index.html
It's good?
http://www.aeroperfect.com/index.html
It's good?
11-26-2005 | 04:17 PM
#3
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From: Etna, CA
RE: Throw Meter
It's extremely useful. In the case of very small aircraft, simply hand-hold the measuring unit to the control surface. There is no need for clamping. For larger aircraft, (for example, 25% - 46%) clamping to the control surface does not negatively impact accuracy at all. A slight manual "boost" (if needed) to remove any servo buzzing will always yield a precise measurement.
A weight of 8.5 ounces is not at all relevant for incidence, decalage and engine incidence.
A weight of 8.5 ounces is not at all relevant for incidence, decalage and engine incidence.
11-26-2005 | 04:30 PM
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From: Saskatoon,
SK, CANADA
RE: Throw Meter
Aeroperfect
8.5oz, $200, 50 mdeg resolution
Hanger 9 AnglePro
?oz, $60, 100 mdeg resolution
Budd laser meter
?oz, $110, 100* mdeg resolution
Note sure of weights on the last two, but I'm guessing 1oz for the Budd and 2oz for the Hanger. Personally, I just sold my Budd meter and I'll be buying a Hanger when my Twister kit ships from France in January.
*continuous display that I was able to recognize to this value
8.5oz, $200, 50 mdeg resolution
Hanger 9 AnglePro
?oz, $60, 100 mdeg resolution
Budd laser meter
?oz, $110, 100* mdeg resolution
Note sure of weights on the last two, but I'm guessing 1oz for the Budd and 2oz for the Hanger. Personally, I just sold my Budd meter and I'll be buying a Hanger when my Twister kit ships from France in January.
*continuous display that I was able to recognize to this value
11-26-2005 | 04:46 PM
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From: Etna, CA
RE: Throw Meter
No comparison when it comes to the technologies used. Aeroperfect uses Optical Encoder technology which yields highly repeatable measurements. AnglePro, while a low price, uses a capacitive-type measurement which may be susceptible to accuracy drift with temperature. Do a search here on RC Universe and you'll find that some users have found errors as much as 2.3 degrees when measuring a carpenter's triangle. Don't forget the .05 degree resolution of the AeroPerfect covers +/- 180 degrees! It will handle the most extreme 3D throws without any repeatability issues. Capacitive type meters have a limited "sweet spot" when it comes to accuracy and repeatability.
The Budd meter requires a target to be located at precisely the right distance away from the laser in order for measurements to be accurate. Plus its ranges is quite limited. I'm not saying that these other products don't have their place in the market- just don't sell the AeroPerfect Meter short. I believe it is the most accurate and useful meter you can buy.
The Budd meter requires a target to be located at precisely the right distance away from the laser in order for measurements to be accurate. Plus its ranges is quite limited. I'm not saying that these other products don't have their place in the market- just don't sell the AeroPerfect Meter short. I believe it is the most accurate and useful meter you can buy.
11-27-2005 | 10:19 PM
#6
Senior Member
RE: Throw Meter
There are meters that do not have to attach to the surfaces to read out extremely accurate measurements. Repeatability of such meters is also pretty close to perfect based on gage R&R studies (where the gage contirbutes less than 10% to the total error of the measurement). Such gages are 6 sigma gages and are used every day.... in other disciplines. And BTW, they don't care how the model is positioned. Sound too good to be true? Not really--transits are such meters. EBay has a considerable assortment for relatively cheap.
MattK
MattK
ORIGINAL: Wing-Ding
No comparison when it comes to the technologies used. Aeroperfect uses Optical Encoder technology which yields highly repeatable measurements. AnglePro, while a low price, uses a capacitive-type measurement which may be susceptible to accuracy drift with temperature. Do a search here on RC Universe and you'll find that some users have found errors as much as 2.3 degrees when measuring a carpenter's triangle. Don't forget the .05 degree resolution of the AeroPerfect covers +/- 180 degrees! It will handle the most extreme 3D throws without any repeatability issues. Capacitive type meters have a limited "sweet spot" when it comes to accuracy and repeatability.
The Budd meter requires a target to be located at precisely the right distance away from the laser in order for measurements to be accurate. Plus its ranges is quite limited. I'm not saying that these other products don't have their place in the market- just don't sell the AeroPerfect Meter short. I believe it is the most accurate and useful meter you can buy.
No comparison when it comes to the technologies used. Aeroperfect uses Optical Encoder technology which yields highly repeatable measurements. AnglePro, while a low price, uses a capacitive-type measurement which may be susceptible to accuracy drift with temperature. Do a search here on RC Universe and you'll find that some users have found errors as much as 2.3 degrees when measuring a carpenter's triangle. Don't forget the .05 degree resolution of the AeroPerfect covers +/- 180 degrees! It will handle the most extreme 3D throws without any repeatability issues. Capacitive type meters have a limited "sweet spot" when it comes to accuracy and repeatability.
The Budd meter requires a target to be located at precisely the right distance away from the laser in order for measurements to be accurate. Plus its ranges is quite limited. I'm not saying that these other products don't have their place in the market- just don't sell the AeroPerfect Meter short. I believe it is the most accurate and useful meter you can buy.
11-28-2005 | 01:17 PM
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From: Etna, CA
RE: Throw Meter
The CRC doesn't lend itself to matching elevator halves and measuring incidence. To be sure, the AeroPerfect is a "high-end", all-purpose setup tool which can be used for all model aircraft setup.
11-28-2005 | 01:33 PM
#9
RE: Throw Meter
For matching elevator halves, the CRC throw meter can be very valuable, though proper set up requires two of them. Set it up with the elevator neutral and a CRC meter on each half. Line up the scale so the needle is reading 'zero'. Then carefully swap the meters. If the halves are properly set up, the needles should still be at zero... if not, you have some work to do. This is not a new idea I know... but it's definitely an economical way to set up the halves and can be used through the full range of deflection. I have a Budd meter and like that too, and I also use a couple of sticks... but this works pretty well too.
The Hanger 9 meter is almost useless. It fell off my plane onto the table about 4 inches away and it stopped working... Got it working again but it is definitely less than accurate.
The Hanger 9 meter is almost useless. It fell off my plane onto the table about 4 inches away and it stopped working... Got it working again but it is definitely less than accurate.
11-28-2005 | 01:51 PM
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From: Etna, CA
RE: Throw Meter
The CRC meter is definitely economical for control throws. As you say, positioning the meters identically is indeed the key. The accuracy is limited by how well you position the meter for the opposite half measurement. I don't think there's enough resolution to make reliable incidence measurements with it, though.
11-28-2005 | 08:50 PM
#12
RE: Throw Meter
I thought my H9 meter was pretty good too until I started using it to set up the incidences on my wings... It's inconsistancy now just gives me a headache though... plus or minus .3 is the norm. I have heard though that some are better than others... I guess that's true.
11-28-2005 | 09:56 PM
#14
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From: Shelby Twp.,
MI
RE: Throw Meter
I'm SOLD on the AeroPerfect........ I've got the Hangar 9 Digital, the GP Laser, Robart and the others that clamp on your surfaces, they were all off by some amount. None of them compared to the numbers WingDing is quoting.
I'll try anything once, if it works, I usually keep them!
I'll try anything once, if it works, I usually keep them!
11-28-2005 | 10:12 PM
#15
My Feedback: (1)
RE: Throw Meter
ORIGINAL: Wing-Ding
The CRC doesn't lend itself to matching elevator halves and measuring incidence. To be sure, the AeroPerfect is a "high-end", all-purpose setup tool which can be used for all model aircraft setup.
The CRC doesn't lend itself to matching elevator halves and measuring incidence. To be sure, the AeroPerfect is a "high-end", all-purpose setup tool which can be used for all model aircraft setup.
11-28-2005 | 10:41 PM
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From: Etna, CA
RE: Throw Meter
I don't recall anyone claiming 1/100 of a degree. The AeroPerfect has 1/20 of a degree resolution or .05 degrees. It's not just for control throws even though the name might imply otherwise. Great for measuring decalage, incidence, engine thrust or any other angle you need to measure on your aircraft (I also like to use it to match wheel pants- buts that's just me). The high resolution and repeatability of the AeroPerfect meter allows modelers to quantify the total amount of backlash in the servo gear train and associated linkages.
zzw26n: I PM'd you. Thanks.
zzw26n: I PM'd you. Thanks.
11-28-2005 | 11:05 PM
#17
My Feedback: (1)
RE: Throw Meter
ORIGINAL: Wing-Ding
I don't recall anyone claiming 1/100 of a degree. The AeroPerfect has 1/20 of a degree resolution or .05 degrees. It's not just for control throws even though the name might imply otherwise. Great for measuring decalage, incidence, engine thrust or any other angle you need to measure on your aircraft (I also like to use it to match wheel pants- buts that's just me). The high resolution and repeatability of the AeroPerfect meter allows modelers to quantify the total amount of backlash in the servo gear train and associated linkages.
zzw26n: I PM'd you. Thanks.
I don't recall anyone claiming 1/100 of a degree. The AeroPerfect has 1/20 of a degree resolution or .05 degrees. It's not just for control throws even though the name might imply otherwise. Great for measuring decalage, incidence, engine thrust or any other angle you need to measure on your aircraft (I also like to use it to match wheel pants- buts that's just me). The high resolution and repeatability of the AeroPerfect meter allows modelers to quantify the total amount of backlash in the servo gear train and associated linkages.
zzw26n: I PM'd you. Thanks.
Spend $20 on a good ruler and square and get the same result
11-28-2005 | 11:38 PM
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From: Etna, CA
RE: Throw Meter
Actually it's $189 during the Holiday Season.
It's not just the accuracy that makes it worth the money. It's the dependability, repeatability and the convenience of setting a zero angle reference anywhere so you can make relative measurements quickly. No more plane leveling for incidence measurements. Plus there is a two year warranty.
As far as making adjustments: If you wanted to add a bit more positive decalage you could, for example, add +.35 degrees and then fly to verify flight characteristics. Being able to measure the amount of each adjustment saves time over the trial and error method.
I'm sure there are many opinions about this and you are certainly welcome to yours. Many modelers would not spend $129 for a battery charger either.
It's not just the accuracy that makes it worth the money. It's the dependability, repeatability and the convenience of setting a zero angle reference anywhere so you can make relative measurements quickly. No more plane leveling for incidence measurements. Plus there is a two year warranty.
As far as making adjustments: If you wanted to add a bit more positive decalage you could, for example, add +.35 degrees and then fly to verify flight characteristics. Being able to measure the amount of each adjustment saves time over the trial and error method.
I'm sure there are many opinions about this and you are certainly welcome to yours. Many modelers would not spend $129 for a battery charger either.
11-29-2005 | 07:28 AM
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From: Mission,
TX
RE: Throw Meter
I have tried almost all meters out there. I agree that trimming an aircraft lies in flying it, but trimming a badly aligned airframe is a waste of time.
I have been using the AeroPerfect for only a short while, but have improved the flight characteristics of my planes a lot. If you are a sunday flier, then this is not for you. If you are a precision aerobatic pilot, this will help you. The absolute repeatability of the meter makes it possible to properly document what changes you have made. (You do keep a log of your plane, don't you?)
At the end of the day, you makes your own choices. Not properly setting up a $5000+ plane is IMHO foolish.
Safe Flying!
I have been using the AeroPerfect for only a short while, but have improved the flight characteristics of my planes a lot. If you are a sunday flier, then this is not for you. If you are a precision aerobatic pilot, this will help you. The absolute repeatability of the meter makes it possible to properly document what changes you have made. (You do keep a log of your plane, don't you?)
At the end of the day, you makes your own choices. Not properly setting up a $5000+ plane is IMHO foolish.
Safe Flying!
11-29-2005 | 05:52 PM
#20
My Feedback: (3)
RE: Throw Meter
The CRC throw meter is all you need, I can make one exactly like it in about 15 minutes.. After using the long stick technique to match up throws to within 1/100000000000000000000000000000000th of a degee you can get your initial throws set to approximately wherever you want them within a degree. Then you adjust to suit by feel from there anyway according to your patterns needs.
of a degee you can get your initial throws set to approximately wherever you want them within a degree. Then you adjust to suit by feel from there anyway according to your patterns needs.
11-29-2005 | 10:40 PM
#21
My Feedback: (3)
RE: Throw Meter
Gotta agree with Mike East. I've used a dial indicator to get elevator halves set right, but the two sticks method works too. I am mostly experimenting around with the dial indicator to set incidences, thrust lines, etc. I use it to mark the fuselage for a base line for installation of stab, wing, and engine. But, I agree that the final decision is from the way the plane flies. You can measure all you want, but your loops may be corkscrews until you do the final adjustments.
