Check the D1 contest pre-registration page at: http://www.ocmrc.us/NSRCAD1/nsrcaD1PreReg.html and note that there are several Pattern Primers being held. We do one or more of these each year and they work nicely. Mid-winter workshops or bootcamps sound interesting, but I guess the venue isn't as easy to manage in colder climates. It is something to look into further though.

Taildragger,
Good luck on the Pattern Primer and hope that you have a better experience than the first guy you came across. I am in my 3rd year of competition and can say that I have seen just about everything you can think of for the Sportsman flier. You the Sportsman flier can't go to the Nationals (NATS) so most Contest Directors (CD's) will relax the size rules for just about whatever you can bring up to a limit. I've seen up to 15 pounds which gets you most of the 1/4 scale stuff. And I've seen and flown against .40 size planes that beat me with a full blown high 2m bird. So really don't need to put in any new rule as far as equipment goes just come to the event and fly. Usually there is plenty of time before and especially after the contest to bring out you crazy birds and let things ring out a bit.

But consider this, Don Szcur Flew an ARF at the the NATS a couple of years ago and won the top level. AN ARF. $600. when it was new. Of course the engine and the rest got the cost up there to his liking but the ARF beat all the others.

Learn to fly the plane. Some one well practiced and comfortable with his airplane has a better shot at winning than someone who shows up at the field with the latest and greatest and most expensive. Perfection is found at the bottom of a fuel jug, lots of them, no matter what you fly. When I judge a competitor I judge him on how he is flying and how he presents the maneauvers in accordance with rules put forth. Size and money spent on the plane are not that important early on. Get your feet wet and see if you like, then get serious and fly something you like that will be competitive.

And also realize to put in a full contest season you will have to put in a lot of flights, and I mean a lot of flights. The aircraft and the associated items in that aircraft have to be able to withstand the rigors of flying 300 to 400 times in a year. The average sport pilot does not put that kind of milege on the average sport plane. The planes just can't handle it.

Yes there are times when the guys in the higher levels get serious and need some serious practice. For those aspiring to go to the top level and travel to the NATS it takes a certain amount of commitment but that is no excuse to exclude others at the field from flying or be a helpful guy at the local club when someone has a stupid question. You will get no arguement about that point from me for sure.


We have 4 guys at our field that are heavy into pattern. 1 Sportsman, 2 Advanced, 1 Masters/ FAI. 3 of us are going to the NATS this year and plan to do well. But there is also time for the sport flier wring it out plane, above all else this is a hobby and it is for our enjoyment. The only way that the entire hobby is to grow is that newcomers are welcomed in with open arms and every stupid question every time. Other wise the hobby dies not just pattern. There are snobs yes in pattern, but I bet you find them in IMAC, SCALE, Helicopter and any other SIG of the hobby. But I think they are few and far between. Having witnessed the very top pilots at the NATS last year even on the finals day at the FAI line when things are really on the line, most of the competitors had time for questions right up till time for them to fly. And I am talking these are the people that are looking to get selected to or are members of the USA World Team.

I can say this for certain it felt pretty good to be in the same tent getting my 4th place trophy along with some of the top pilots in the world, that was pretty cool.

Sorry to get long winded but I think there are some myths out there about pattern that are just that. And coming from a backround of flying everything other than pattern I can say that it has been a very rewarding experience for me personally and has made all of my other flying, from trainers to 33% gassers much more enjoyable.

See you at a pattern meet sometime down the road.

Thanks Bladeflyer for a well written, well thought our responce that makes good sence and explanes pattern flying well. I hope my experance of attending the up comming pattern Primer will inable me to show some sport flyers in my club that pattern can be fun, and one does not have to spend mega bucks or have the latest & greatst equpment to compete at the club or regional level.

I might head down to Houston to catch a pattern contest as a spectator - I no longer live where the incident occured and live about 2 hours from Houston now.

I wouldn't say price is a governing factor - but of course I speak from the outside looking in. I'm not "exactly" sure what price of a competitive 2M pattern ship is nowdays....it's just look what you get for your money.

I'm finishing up a new plane now that I dropped $4,500 on and I know when I go fly I don't have the most expensive plane at the field by a long shot with planes from $5k to $8k not uncommon.

With that plane I can go out and "sport fly", 3-D, fly IMAC etc.....

If I bought a $5,000 pattern plane I would likely use it only for pattern contest/practice and have a plane with 30-40 less inch wingpsan.

Just food for thought.

Bob,

there is a pattern meet in Temple, TX this coming weekend...if it close enough, maybe you should come out and visit...

pattern isn't dead in TX....

I get very confused on this $$ thing. Yeah, someone can spend lots of $$ on planes but Mark Leesburg has, I've been told, a 40% plane with 4 electric motors and all the batteries going into a gear box. Lets talk some $$ on that one. Or compare the electric cost of Pattern to that.

I can buy an Aeroslave Symphony, build it myself, RTF with YS DZ and $100 servos for $2500/3KMax.

My Prestige was much more expensive and am estimating only $3K in it.

I do have a 35% extra that was $3500 that I fly sparingly.

40% planes are in the $7K range.

Is $3K a lot of money, you bet but not compared to some of the other options.

The strange thing is I can still take my pattern planes and go fly circles if I want. They will do some mild 3D. Some will torque roll, but your range of control is lower.

I guess I don't understand the specific issues. I see a 4*40 as being specific to flying holes in the sky(a pattern plane can do that), a Corsair is specific to victory rolls low straffing passes and flying holes inthe sky (a pattern plane can do that, a jet is specific to going fast (older pattern planes could do that, a Jekyll PHD was clocked at our field flying 150mph)

I'm not bashing all these other things, I just see that specificity and $$ as part of the incorrect rumors about pattern. A pattern plane can fly the IMAC sequence. There are people that build Pattern planes just to burn holes in the sky, but smoother and in fact easier. In Sportsman, you can fly what ever you want, long as it fits in 2X2 box. Same as IMAC, except the size is unlimited in IMAC.

However IMAC and Pattern are different. I for one am glad they are different, and have enjoyed both.

Just my thoughts.

ed

I'm feeling a little ornery tonight so here goes. The $$ argument is irrelevant. Pattern is not too expensive compared to other competitive (IMAC) aerobatic events. Period. It's cheaper than jets and probably not more money that a good heli setup. Check out the results from the big Tucson IMAC event almost everyone even the lower classes flew 35 - 40% planes w/ DA 100 and 150's. If someone has a reason not to fly pattern, just say so but don't say it's too expensive. Also, I have been to probably 15 pattern contests in the last 2 years and have NEVER seen anyone w/ a 2meter plane in Sportsman. All were flying Kaos's or Stiks etc. Certainly not too expensive. When I started flying pattern, I too did not get a warm reception from some people. So what. I did not quit - I wanted to fly pattern, and I would do it with or without their assistance. At my first IMAC contest, I was told by 2 people straight out to "go home - you have no chance" with my GP Patty Wagstaff 24%. Nice intro to IMAC huh? These were 2 people that I have never seen before in my life. So what, I won't say that I hate IMAC just because of these 2 dummies. So people are using the excuse that someone hurt their feelings as a reason not to fly pattern?? Come on guys. If it's boring to you say so. If it's too hard, say so. If you think it's lame, silly, etc etc etc. say so. Just don't make excuses.

Thanks for the heads up... but I fly out Wed. of IAH to Greenville, SC for the Joel Nall .... heh it's a tough world.

From reading the responses and the locations I think there are hot spots of pattern. Just like IMAC used to be a west coast or southwest thing now it's gotten larger. For "a lot of people" you look at a 2M pattern ship and a 35-40% IMAC plane that cost about the same and the larger IMAC plane has more "appeal".

I fly both IMAC and pattern, its an easy concept to see.


Cost......
4-5k for pattern
5-9k for IMAC

Motor....
600+ for pattern (YS160)
1500-1800 for DA or 3W 150 IMAC

So IMAC is slightly more expensive so why IMAC?

1. planes look like real planes (public can relate)
2. Planes are larger, and larger does fly slightly easier (notice I didn't say better)
3. Wow factor......more impressive to bring out a 10ft airplane vs a 6ft one
4. Fuel.....at $30 a gallon for nitro vs $3 a gallon for gas
5. Gas engines last years....nitro engines, not quite as long
6. Nitro tends to be harder to start and keep running vs gas
7. Choice of plane material.....wood/composite, both .....better choice in IMAC
8. 3D is primarly done with IMAC type planes, so you can see the benefit.
9. Flight times......Imac planes can fly 20+ mins.....10-12 mins on pattern
10. 2 sequences per rd vs one
11. Magazines devoted to these types of planes selling on store shelves


Its no wonder that pattern is falling (though I wouldn't say dead).

Prime example is this weekend I've got a choice, fly at Riverside IMAC with oh about 50+ pilots and at least 10 in my class
or
Fly in my home town contest with 20+ pilots and most likely 2 or 3 in my class?

I like both, but I like competing against others more.

Its a sad fact to see precision (pattern) flying is getting less popular, both planes and helis....

I started many years ago with planes, back then pattern flying is the norm.... I still thinks Hanno is god, and those Curare and Magic are sexy....

The last decade I participates actively in heli F3C contests, especially the Worlds. In the heli scene, F3C is dying, less and less people participates, and the brass at FAI knows about this. So they introduces new maneuvers that makes the helis flies like a plane, which further kicks the old guy out, but did not attract much new guys....

Lately, getting a bit tired of the heli scene, I come to planes, but sadly same thing happen to precision heli flying now also happens to pattern planes... Flying buddies at the field despise pattern as they think pattern planes doesn't look like real planes, boring both to fly and look at and too "stiff" feeling...

I guess the "wow" factor pushes people both planes and helis from the precision flying style into 3D style... Spectators like to see planes that hovers, and helis does knife edge... Flight path that we precision fliers preach most does not mean anything to the regular spectators who don't know the schedule... Many times after a practice heli flight I always heard guys comment how boring I am to just hover above the flags and not do some "serious stuffs" with my helis... Now with planes I might hear some comment about the other guy who does a waterfall is a skillful flyer, while no comment on how good the flight path is of the top pattern guy at the field who just flew... Not that I care about what these people says, but I know many who flew precision flying before goes 3D because of words like these...

My 0.2 cent...

Blackshark...true that. But you have to realize, peoples perceptions on a flight is based solely on what they can see.

People that have never gotten into pattern flying dont understand what they are supposed to be looking at. All they see is a cuban 8. To them every cuban 8 in the contest looks exactly the same.

They arent looking for 15 degrees in the wings, or exit and entry altitude, was it in the box, equal radius, tail wiggles on the stall turns,pitch change before snaps, etc. They've never been taught the finer points of precision flying....so it all looks the same to them. After they see the same thing 20 times in a row...their immediate thought is "this is boring, why dont they do something cool like hover".

The last pattern contest I went to, I printed out 10 copies of the pattern rulebook, including the judging part and all the sequences. I passed out all 10 copies at the pattern contest to spectators. I have no doubt that by reading that information, and the discussions we had while watching the event made it much more interesting. By the end of the contest, many of them were watching the flights closely trying to see if they could "find waldo" and catch the mistakes.

One pilot zero'd a maneuver, and everyone caught it because they now knew what to look for. Pattern is much more enjoyable when you understand it.

Id say competition in general is in a slump due to the small electric stuff gaining popularity and the 3D craze...give it time...as the new guys get better they will start looking for competition. Question is what form of competition it ends up being. I think pattern is going to evolve over the next decade. I think that we are going to see more freedom in the sequences in the form of more maneuvers with "options", an increase in freestyle/pattern mixes, and newer 3D maneuvers being adopted as recognized aerobatic maneuvers.

Reality check. $4-5K for Pattern is much higher than what it really takes to be competitive. You can do three full blown 2M ships for the price of one 40% IMAC bird. You can get them all in one minivan, no trailer. What's the real cost to have and haul a backup bird in IMAC? Right, get a Dodge hemi and a big trailer.

$250 or so for an OS 1.60, $30 for a pump, $60 for a pipe, 15% fuel. $500 to $600 ARF and you can win a district championship with the right skills. You absolutely can get through the pattern twice, Masters, FAI, whatever, on one tank of glow. I do it all the time with a 20 plus figure sequence, as opposed to the 10 figure sequences in Scale Aerobatics. BTW, 20 min flights generally annoy the heck out of everyone else waiting for you to stop chopping the air with 3D. Not that I don't like 3D flying, but there are some obnoxious habits that get really tiring with 40% birds hanging on the prop all day. Rrrr, Rrr, Rrrr. Impressive. Yes, I can do it too. It got a little boring and took me a while to realize how obnoxious it was to everyone else at the field. Everything in moderation.

I get 15% fuel for a little over $6 / gal, buying it by the drum. Even by the case, it's only $12/gal. Gas at $3 a gal and a good synthetic mix, you are at the $5 mark (this weekend anyway) and you use double to triple the amount per flight as my 2M Temptation does.

Electric is an extremely viable option in Pattern in any class. Yes, that brings the initial cost up alot, but at least you can do it. Noise and huge overflight patterns an issue in your area? Losing fields? You might want electric airplane some day. Maybe an electric pattern plane. Electric viable in IMAC? Not really, not yet. Now then, D1 has 10 pattern contests this year. Now check the NE IMAC page. Oh yeah, I forgot. Pattern is dead.

Good Points Bob, all,

Regarding the practice field selection - I "could" go to Markham Park, which is a grave-yard of every type of airplane imaginable, or I can go to "Area 51.5" My rule is that if I can fly during the week after work, I will stop at Marckham because there will only be 5-10 guys there in the evening. During the weekend, it is hardly even safe to spectate there. No way in hell would I bring a decent plane there on a weekend (IMAC or Pattern or fun-fly).
Jim W.

Once again, where do you guys get your $$ estimates???????????

My previous post is FACTUAL, but yet totally ignored in the posts below it. I try to be honest and truthful, and was, but ..... let's ignore that and continue to misstate the numbers.

Sorry I don't know how to do the quote function.

4-5K for pattern is not correct.

Stating a 40% plane is the same cost as a pattern plane is not correct.

I wonder at times when will the rumors and mis-lead info stop.

Granted if you have it built for you, more $$ but that takes the 7.5K IMAC plane up to 9K also.

If we want to compare numbers, come on, lets be truthful and honest. Before thinking I am crazy realize I have done both, know the actual numbers, and build all my own planes, IMAC or Pattern. 6 years ago, I was pulling $25K behind my pick-up to an IMAC contest. That particular year I flew in 16 IMAC/Pattern contests. So let's talk honest $$$ here. I'm game if someone really really wants the truth instead of propagating the continual un-truth.

If you want to compare electric, well you can't unless you look at Mark Leesburg's elect 40% with 4 electric motors and all the electric hardware. plus the gear box etc etc. Let's add in the trailer for most 40% people. I can build 3 FAI quality pattern planes for the cost of 1 40% plane. This is the TRUTH. Fuel, for me ysDZ $15 gal, 8 flights a gal. Gas $2.75/gal, plus oil, with a 40%, 3-4 flights a gal.( still cheaper) Prop strike 40% $80-180 (2 vs 3 blade prop), Pattern $11. I've been there I've done it!!

Let's be honest.

Wow factor, youbet 40% is Wow, and 3D is fun, but most IMAC winners fly like Pattern pilots, just with many more snaps, and less than 1/2 the manuevers in a sequence. Masters has 2 snaps and 1 spin, Advanced IMAC has 1 spin and like 12 snaps (don't remember for sure)

Audience appeal, IMAC/3D has it, Pattern doesn't, agreed. Competitor appeal, both are fun, challenging, IMAC has unknowns, both can win with what you bring in Sportsman (haven't seen a pattern ship in sporsman pattern for some time now, but have seen 40-35% in IMAC sportsman routinely) Both present different challenges, and different manuevers. They simply are not the same, and that should be the bottom line. Both however are aerobatics being judged from a published set of rules and guidelines.

Some parts of the country IMAC is thriving, others Pattern is thriving. This has gone on for the past 10 years. Peaks and valleys in both. That is just the way it is. Some will try one or the other, some will stick, most will not in both!! The why and where fors will be discussed in nauseum infinitum without any clear cut reasons. I have seen poor personal behavior in both disciplines. I have seen cut throat win at all cost attitudes in both disciplines. I have seen Pattern pilots go way way out of their way to help another pilot, but honestly in IMAC this doesn't happen nearly as much, at least in my experience.

This is a lot, but what I see.

Ed

Divesplat is 100% spot on. Take it to the bank!

What many are not considering is that folks WILL figure out how to FUND what they WANT TO DO. PERIOD!!! In my half-vast experience in pattern of the past 30 years now (off and on during my military career), I know LOTS of folks who were scraping out a living in the military and somehow could afford pattern. Same with IMAC, more recently. BOTH games are expensive.

Pattern, and IMAC, or Helis, or Scale all take MONEY to do at a certain competitive level. Folks who WANT to do these activities figure out how to PAY for those activities.

The issue of "Pattern is Dead" is an interesting topic that flares up frequently. Pattern ain't DEAD, but it's bleeding pretty badly. And probably for LOTS of reasons, but I would put these two things forward (as if they haven't been said before)....

1. Pattern is "grown" by having pattern-activities (practice, primers, workshops, websites, advertising, promotion) in front of the RC'er who is looking for something after his trainer.

2. Pattern will "Grow" only to the natural limit of the rules and the competition environment. The guy that WANTS to do pattern will FIND pattern (see 1. above).

Whenever possible, let's consider bringing back the one day contests. Some clubs do it with success . I'm familiar with the long distance drive concerns , the problem with the number of pilots on the flight line , and everyone's wish to have a half dozen flights. I , personally , could live with 3 flights and like having one more day in my weekend to do whatever. In the mid 60s and early 70s, I did on average 10 -14 one day Ukie meets or so a year - flew Stunt , Combat , and occasionally Carrier or Balloon Burst . God , we had enormous turnouts and large groups of spectators- some of whom got introduced to and got into the hobby. Of course , my buddies and I had the energy to pit and run around like crazies; ah youth ! But one day for one event ain't unreasonable and it just might increase pattern participation. Just my 2 cents.

Whenever possible, let's consider bringing back the one day contests. Some clubs do it with success . I'm familiar with the long distance drive concerns , the problem with the number of pilots on the flight line , and everyone's wish to have a half dozen flights. I , personally , could live with 3 flights and like having one more day in my weekend to do whatever. In the mid 60s and early 70s, I did on average 10 -14 one day Ukie meets or so a year - flew Stunt , Combat , and occasionally Carrier or Balloon Burst . God , we had enormous turnouts and large groups of spectators- some of whom got introduced to and got into the hobby. Of course , my buddies and I had the energy to pit and run around like crazies; ah youth ! But one day for one event ain't unreasonable and it just might increase pattern participation. Just my 2 cents.

Let's prove Jim wrong, as the CD of the only pattern contest in Colorado, come on out to Crosswinds on June 3 & 4. Pattern contests have the most comrodary we can chat and have fun whereas at other contests I won't mention the type people take it too serious. I have been to a lot of heli funfly's recently and have had the most fun at those. Let's try to bring the fun back to the contests and bring pattern to the front of the pack again.

Larry
Crosswinds RC

I have built and am flyng an all wood competitive pattern plane that will fly fai for no more than 1200 bucks... and i traded my time and a litl emoey and can fly imac with an investment of 600 bucks.

If you find it interesting and want to learn to fly IMAC or Pattern, you wil find a way that you can afford to learn, grow and enjoy either aspect. Both Imac and pattern have much o ofer, the people are the same.. both helpful, passionate and opinionated, the same if you went fencing, bowling or skeet shooting. Maybe our sport is not dying but often misunderstood and misrepresented by those who think they know what the heck they are talking about and run their mouth based on lack of facts, and their need to feel they know it all.

Chuck

Hi guys. I’m proud to say that pattern's alive and well in Southeast Wisconsin. Our club just hosted its annual pattern contest this past weekend with a great turnout of 25 pilots. Our CD boosted participation by doing exactly what “aerobob” mentioned above. He even introduced a “Club-Class” at a reduced entry fee for club members only. The more experienced flyers were very accommodating and helpful to the pilots just starting out in pattern. All in all a very successful weekend.

Pattern is Ballet, IMAC is Break Dancing

News flash!!!!!!
Pattern in the midwest this year is growing. We had a pattern seminar in Wisconsin two weeks where we had healthy interest by many newbies. We had great attendance from both the Milwaukee contest and the Hearts of Ohio (Columbus) this last weekend.
The D4 vs: D5 Shootout which has evolved into one of the premier pattern events in the US will more than likely reach 50 flyers this weekend at the AMA national flying site in Muncie. At this rate our biggest challenge is becoming how to get in all the rounds to satisfy the ranks.
Pattern here is getting better and the interest level is approaching the old days.
We've put in a real grass roots effort and its nice to see it paying a dividend. Last weekend we had new guys flying Sig Four Stars, Kaos 60's, old T2A's and the like. They seemed to be having a ball.
Mike Mueller AVP D5 NSRCA

Guys, I've been reading this for a while now, and after my travels, the urge to go back and compete is somewhat red blooded right now. But let me give you some points from someone who can remember seeing patternships before he could walk. Me.

All this malarkey about Pattern and IMAC is just that, Pattern can be seen as being expensive, flown buy people with questionable dress sense, elitist and out and out boring. No two bones about it, and they, are the main reasons that pattern has and I think, always will struggle for people willing to compete. Some may secretly enjoy that elitist vein (as can be shown by the member's only club that aerobob was talking about) and some may have money to burn so the issue of cash becomes irrelevant to them. The dress sense thing I'll just leave well alone I think this is always going to be expected in the high echelons of the sport, but new masters flyers are not going to pop up out of the ground like mushrooms.

But lets just throw everything aside for the moment.

Think back to when we all started this hobby. Now if you were told that to set up your first trainer was going to cost you 4 thousand smackers, you'd have laughed, and quite possibly taken up crochet or something, why? Becuase that's a LOT of money to risk on something you've never tried, and a lot of money to blow if you don't like the hobby. With the advent of park flyers and small electric planes and even the F3Ai aircraft, the hobby is coming in easier reach of people who were shy of the costs before. These are the people that will be the next generation of pattern pilots, provided we can make the ititial phase of pattern alluring.

All too often, especially in the lower classes, it's turned into a wallet race, he who has the biggest chequebook wins the round, and that not only browns off prospective, and possibly better, more dedicated pilots from competing but also makes it very expensive to even enter competitively, and as most people will attest to, if you're not getting somewhere it's horribly disheartening. So people who may have been interested in competing in sportsman classes simply wont. They'll go and do something else.


How do we fix this?

I'm totally in agreement of adding a few whizzbang maneuvres to the sportsman schedule, we need to. I few higher K maneuvres would give people something to sink their teeth into, and I dare say that most of the pilots that would be competing would have the skills to do it.

Secondly, the aircraft, I've been thinking about setting up a little "formula F3A" comp in my home state, what is that? It's for those guys, who own all of those 50 sized pattern ships, like venuses, Imagines, Arestis, larks, zen 50's beat on 50's and on and on. These would competitive ships in their own right, but they've really gotta be kept in their own right. This makes it easy to enter for prospective pattern pilots (they have the planes already) and everyone has the sense of competing on a level playing field. Ultimately the scores should relfect the pilots control prowess over his or her model, not the amount of money they've spent.

I'll get back to you on how all this turns out.