That"s my question:-)
I want a new f3a style plane that isn"t too expensive. What would bee the best choice?
When it comes to engine selection..my local hobby shop has 30% discount on os.70 fl..
I just absolutely LOVE f3a pattern flying!

I recommend the Venus 40. I really like the one I have. I have not flown or seen the Groovy50, but it's a little bit smaller (53.5" wing for Groovy, 55" for Venus). Bigger flys better, or so they say.

If you can move up to a 90-120 four stroke, consider the Venus 2. I have it also. It flys very similar to the Venus 40, but is not as twitchy, and handles the wind better.

Good luck.

I agree if you can the Venus 2 is great . I have a saito 125 in mine and it is a dream . I have a buddy with one with a OS 120 AX that is also great.. The plane will be a little nose heavy so put the servos in the tail and you wont have a problem.

thanks Kirk

he wants somthing that is not expensive, so why recommend a venus II when it's gonna be out of his price range.

i have the groovy 50 3a & it's an awsome 50 size pattern plane. built well, & light yet the best is the way it fly's, it really does fly like a larger patternship.

guess it's going to come down to what you like the look of.

Venus is great. I also have a Groovy from World model. My Venus did fly better than Groovy 50 3A, even if the deferens is small. Groovy is more easy to transport because of two-piece wing.


If I shall rate Venus and Groovy 1 to 5:

Pattern flying: Venus 5 / Groovy 4,5
Quality: Venus 4 / Groovy 4
Easy to build: Venus 4 / Groovy 4
Easy to repair: Venus 4 / Groovy 3 (Groovy is covered with World Models film. Venus has Monokote ho is more easy and faster to buy in case of reparation.)
Easy to transport: Venus 4 / Groovy 5

I can recommend both, but if I shall choose one it will be Venus.

The venus 2 is not out of my price range I just thought it would be fun to try something inexpensive for a change
I really have a problem here.. both looks great and I have not seen any of them in the air so i cant make a decision based on that[]
When it comes to the way they looks,I think both looks absolutely great! So i guess I decide on the venus 40,since it seems like that"s the most popular. Which engine to go with? 2 stroke or 4 stroke?

go for 4-stroke hands down. a 70 will do fine (both Saito-72 or OS-MAX-70). If you go for a Saito, you could also choose the FA-82. It is very powerful!

Murdoc,

Take a look at the Oxalys 50 before you make up your mind. I'm building one right now, the quality of this kit is better than the Venus 40. I ordered it from Lindinger Modellbau, took a week before it showed up at the postoffice.

~DR

Stupid! Yes, you are quite right Dagern! If I would choose today for an ARF of this size, I would go for the Oxalis too. It is a bit more expensive (€50,--?), but I do think it is the best choice. My next one would be an Oxalis too (I'm flying now a Protech Tojeiro-50)

http://www.shamrock-maastricht.nl/ They sell it now for €209,--

wagen017: I had a tojeiro 50 too... what do you think of it? Decided to start on the hard but fully realistic repair job on it.
So basicly i have to sheet the left wing, fix the body and glue the landinggear mount in place..which i fear won"t be strong enough.. what do yuo think?

Nobody is suggesting a Phoenix Lazer or Atlantis?
These are quite nice as a start and not expensive...

Of course if you are just limiting yourself to the Venus 40 against the Groovey 50, then that's another story.
I will vote Venus 40.

world models are the manufacturer for many of kyosho's model's.

REALLY?!?!?!?!

I don"t like kyosho.. Too many bad mistakes in those i had.....
But with that said, they all flies like an angel:-)

Murdoc, I have the Tojeiro-50 now about three months, so I haven't flown a lot with it (about 50 flights sofar). Flying is good, and sofar no big issues. I have learned the hard way this season that also ARF's need attention when building.
1. before flying, I strengthened with epoxy the wing mount area (in which the bolts screw which hold the wing). I learned later that somebody lost a Tojo-50 due to this (the wing parted from the fuse)
2. I strengthened the fire wall and landing gear area with epoxy
3. Later, to lower the tank, I lowered the LG-mounting plate. This was first a disaster (broke loose three times), so I then installed a LG-mounting plate myself, which runs from firewall to the plate in which the wing fixes itself
4. I used screws to pin all hinges (almost lost the plane on a loose aileron)
5. I use the pieces of cut fuel line to make sure the quicklinks stay closed (I lost a Groove on this earlier this season --> quicklink opened, no more elevator control -> crash

So, build quality is OK, and I am especially happy with the covering of Oracover.

So now, I am happy with the Tojeiro!

photo 1,2, 4: lower gear. photo #3 install of batteries (to compensate for 4-stroke weight), also shows strenghtened wing mount area with epoxy

Murdoc: I flew a GP Tracer, GP Ultrasport, Weston Groove and now the Tojeiro-50. I use them when I am in a hurry, the weather is not so good, or to practice roughly some manoevres I am not sure will end right. Then I bought a Fliton Infinity (span 1.70m) and it was a huge difference. Once setup correctly, it really adds a lot to the flying experience. Now I also bought a 2m pattern plane and it is great too, but the difference is not so big with the Infinity (which unfortunately broke its wing in two pieces while flying.... :-( ), as the Infinity was with the smaller planes.

If you are really interested in F3A flying, I would make the investment (also since you are now thinking also about buying a new engine) and go for the "90" size type of plane. I personally would not buy the Fliton again, since I now prefer a two-piece wing. I am thinking about the Tojeiro-90, but there are a lot of other choices as well. The difference in investment is not so big, the difference in flying is huge (of course IMHO).

yes, this was brought to my attention when discussing different models on the market by one of australia's top f3a pilots. it was a suprise to me also.

A friend of mine has the tojeiro 90 and it looks great but he havent flown it yet..
Well... i might as well go for a 140 size? Unfortunately protech in belgium burned down some weeks ago so the 140 size isn"t available before march[&o]

Murdoc, what have you been flying sofar? Also big planes? Otherwise the step might be big. Not for flying, more for your own mental state !! 90 size is great and not such a big step, also financially. But anyway, that is all personal!

I had the Venus 40 (had because I destroyed it on take-off one morning. Very windy day, take off, suddenly veered to the right with a gust of wind, I corrected but brain had me use the aileron instead of rudder... plane went up about three feet while rolling inverted then smashed into the ground).

I loved that plane. It was an easy build, flew it with the OS 50 SX engine, and it was very nice, easy to fly, and a great primer for pattern. I was able to do all the Sportsman routine with no problem.

Instead of buying another, I built the Venus II and love that plane even more. OS 1.20 AX on the Venus II. Great power.

DS

hello CGretired, good to see you again. Did you go with OS in the end to solve your engine problems? I remember you had a lot of trouble with the Evolution engine..

I mostly fly 50 size airplanes.. but since I love pattern i might as well go for a 140 size. Money is not an issue. If I make up my mind then that"s the way it"s going to be!
Sorry for my bad english.. but I do my best

Hey, Murdoc, recognize the situation very much. The problem I found with the 2meter planes that there is less choice around for a good ARF (if there is any such thing as a "good" ARF...)
. I found that I did not have the knowledge and time to build a full 2 meter plane myself.

So I choose to go first for a 90-size plane, of which there is plenty choice in ARF. Now I have also bought a 2meter plane, but this is actually a used plane from one of the top competition flyers here. In this way I have the best of both worlds (a good plane, built by somebody who knows what he is doing (--> not me!) and still for a reasonable price, so I don't have to worry too much if it might go in).

If you would go for a 2m, I am interested to see on what plane you'd come out. I have tried also here on RCU to discuss this, but not much came out (except for the advice to go for a good used 2m plane in stead of a not so good ARF)

The problem is that there"s almost no interest in patternflying here in norway! So buying a used one is as difficult as buying a new one[&o]
I"m so sick of all 3d planes... they are all the same! So I think maybe the venus 120 is a good choice.
Btw... I maidened my raptor 50 yesterday! It was awesome to fly!

anyway, since you are looking for a new plane with a new engine, go for the bigger size, like a 90. Also, if you don't mind spending some money, I would go for a four-stroke. All new designs that come out are made for YS-90/110. This means they already have a build-in engine mount which is designed for a inverted engine. You either have to strip this, or live with constant flooding of your engine, making that first start a big issue. If I would start fresh, I would go for a Saito 125. Also, I really loved the flying of my Fliton Infinity. It is no longer on the market, but you can order it directly from http://enjoyhobbies.net/index.php?ma...products_id=16
but there are many more around.