Coming this summer: Black Magic VF3
04-04-2007, 09:57 AM
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Coming this summer: Black Magic VF3
After an exhaustive period of design, engineering, testing and countless dollars and hours, we are pleased to announce the Black Magic VF3 with an estimated release date this summer. The plane shown here is the prototype, a fast and dirty one day monokote scheme. It is currently undergoing flight testing and needs just a little refinement, and I do mean VERY little, because it is so close to exactly what I was going after....and much more....already. We test flew it originally at the Ocala contest, in heavy winds. Thus we were unable to fully trim and set up the plane, but even in this state some flew it and were favorably impressed, as it was fairly close right off the table. After finishing the set up of the trim and throws, it’s nothing short of amazing.
We took a novel approach to the design of this plane: we listened. We enlisted the input of some of the best pilots, designers and builders in the USA, and after initial flight testing, the results speak for themself. This plane is ultra competetive at ALL levels, and was primarily designed as an FAI plane. It excels in rolling combined manuevers, tracking, snapping, rudder work, and is a very cutting edge design. There are no sacrifices and no compromises with the flight characteristics of this plane. You don’t need a silly T canalizer to make the rudder behave, although we’re playing with some interesting things. The behavior and tracking in high turbulent wind is downright unbelievable. It is at least equal to if not better than any plane in the world today, and I say that with the utmost confidence. We took every opportunity to enhance the qualities and balance of this plane to be a “total packageâ€. We are just about there right now. We’re still looking for it’s weaknesses, and really haven’t found anything yet. I’m sure some plane out there may do one manuever a little easier, but this plane gives up nothing to any other plane in the world as far as the balance and flyability. The tracking, snapping, speed control and the way it handles high turbulent wind is absolutely uncanny. You have to see it to believe it, and this is one reason I haven’t said much until now...because this plane just shocked me, to put it bluntly.
I was afraid because of it’s size, it would be primarily for FAI and would be a detriment to a novice pilot. In the past, most designs of this size just won’t handle the wind well in the hands of a pilot who is fighting a crosswind. This plane is one of the tallest in the world, if not THE tallest, and I would almost go as far as to say it practically ignores the wind. The way it deals with turbulence is particularly impressive. It will weathervane slightly in a heavy dead cross, but it’s very easy and manageable, and not NEARLY as pronounced as other planes of this size. So right now I would have to say there is NO downside for a beginner that I can identify. That sort of changes the rules to the game, and I assure you it is just as much of a suprise to me. I designed it to penetrate, but never expected this.
Is it perfect? No, as long as we use spinning propellers things are a balance. But this is the most all around balanced plane I know of so far. And the things it excels in, are just downright amazing. Mixes are slim to none, right now the elevator is mixed to where it moves a hair at full left rudder deflection, the rest are not even measureable. Inverted pushes with this plane are suprisingly clean, it flies as well inverted as it does upright. Rolls are perfectly axial with no differential, upline and downlines are dead straight, upline and downline rolls are also dead straight, no adverse yaw at all, no dutch roll. Phrases coming from the test camp are things like “downlines are MONEY†and “points falling from heavenâ€. LOLOL this is why I have been quiet, the feedback is over the top. New plane euphoria is real, but apparently so is this plane. I only needed a few passes myself to know I had exactly what I wanted and then some.
What it is:
A true thoroughbred plane designed for the most challenging FAI sequences.
Although mainly constructed from wood and foam, many composite parts are utilized for ease of construction, strength and weight considerations. This was done primarily because I have to build them myself to make weight with axi outrunners and the heaviest of battery packs. I didn’t want to have to pull my hair out to make it happen. Well, let me tell you now....it’s easily doable. This plane is the lightest, strongest and most durable structure in the world today. And that is including fully composite planes. Some may be lighter, some may be stronger, but none of them are this light AND this strong. Coupled with a design that flies like this.....BINGO
Designed from the ground up to be a laser/CNC kit. Parts interlock via built in alignment tabs. These kits are like nothing you have ever seen before. Every single piece of this aircraft has been well thought out, engineered for maximum efficiency, strength to weight ratios and durability. Parts have been tested, fitted, retested and refitted until nothing is left to chance.
Ease of building and relatively low parts count were of utmost importance to us. All wood is hand picked and cut to perfection. Once the foam cores are sheeted, an average builder can frame this plane to the finishing stages in only a couple of week nights and weekends. The work involved isn’t too much more than your typical ARF, and argueably easier than the lower end stuff. If you possess the skill to build a Sig Kougar or a Kaos, you can build this plane with ease There really is nothing to compare it to, because before now it didn’t really exist.
What it is NOT:
It isn’t anything like you’ve ever seen before in a “wood†kit. Forget the preformed opinions and stereotypes about building in general and wood planes, because they simply do not apply. If you “don’t have time†to build, you may now be kidding yourself. If you “can’t build a plane as good as the chineseâ€, you may again be kidding yourself...you can do it MUCH better. Finishing is still up to you of course, but the actual structure of the plane itself is extremely easy, rigid and light. Complex shapes were kept to a minimum so anyone can use monokote on all but the composite parts.
Forget the stereotype that a wood plane is heavier than a composite plane of the same size, that is utter bull crap and a generalization that is as old as the first composite plane ever made. It is simply untrue. All that is required is the right materials and the right design and engineering. If you put 3 lbs of paint on it, that’s your fault =)
Forget jigs and fixtures, you simply need a flat table with a single straight line drawn on it. Although I still much prefer the use of a jig, it can be done without one very easily.
This plane is NOT simply an updated or bashed version of the Black Magic V2. The entire design is completely different, from the ground up.
This plane is NOT an ARF. Although you do have to build and finish it, even a rank beginner or a person with very little time can easily have an airframe comparable to the most high end ARFs or professionally built planes.
This plane is NOT a compromise in any area. Some aesthetic things were kept simple for the sake of time and weight, but the plane itself is a cutting edge flyer. The kits are borderline ridiculous in quality.
This plane is NOT small. It is one of the larger F3A planes in the world. If you don’t like the “pregnant guppy†look, you will probably hate the looks of this plane. That’s ok, to each his own. Fly it then tell me how you like it.
This plane is NOT specifically an “entry level†plane. If you are not fairly comfortable with the left stick, you will be very soon after flying this plane. With that said, it is one of the easiest planes to fly, including heavy winds. Judging by the sheer size I was afraid it would act the same in crosswinds as other planes....it does not. This plane is designed to penetrate turbulence, yet still offer very slow downlines. The flight speed envelope is VERY wide. Don’t be shocked if you find yourself adding power in downlines.
General info:
Wingspan- 74
Length- 78.25
Weight- 9.5-10.75 lbs (depending on equipment choice and finish)
Power- 160+ glow or electric
Construction- balsa, foam, composite
To sum up:
Our goal was to go back to square one and design a “no compromises†plane fully capable of competing with the best in the world, PERIOD. We did not use simplified construction methods specifically to make it simple, we used these techniques because they produce the lightest, strongest, straightest structure available. Making it easy to build was a selfish reason....I have to build them too
The plane was designed around the axi/hacker outrunner electric set ups and the YS/Hatori combination. Use of a 2 stroke glow OR gas with a long exhaust was made simple by making a very easy open pipe tunnel. Any power system will work, but I would not suggest anything less than a 160 glow. Although a 140 would pull this plane through the lower class sequences very well, to get the full performance of this design you really need a 160.
This plane can be built extremely light, much lighter than generally thought possible before. Making weight even with the heaviest of electric set ups is not difficult at all. The “true†weight of the prototype, which was built with heavy regular balsa, heavy equipment and nothing even trimmed, is about 10 lbs 4 ounces, because it was weighed at 10lbs 6 ounces with the header tank full. The use of contest balsa alone would easily make this plane in the mid 9s with no special tricks, even glassed and painted.... Of course, your finishing methods could vary the weight in the end.
The completeness of the kits is still being worked out. My hope is to make a very basic and inexpensive wood kit for those wanting a world class plane without a world class price tag, and a top end “pro level†kit that is very complete with all of the perks, for those who want the BEST. Exact pricing and availability is to be determined soon. I used a LOT of carbon laminates in the top end kits, so it won’t be dirt cheap. The lower end kits are essentially the same plane without the fancy carbon stuff. Naturally they will be a hair bit heavier when finished, but will still last forever and a day.
The V2 is the plane that can take you from Sportsman to masters with the best of them. This is the plane that can get you all the way to the FAI finals. The V2.2 is still one of the best planes out there for the AMA classes, but this one may be even better. We have intermediate pilots testing it too so we shall see. So far the feedback is very VERY positive.
The bar has been raised. If I sound confident, it’s because I am. I cannot possibly express the blood, sweat and tears that have gone into this plane, on everyone’s part. This plane is American designed, constructed and tested, and fully supported by cottage industry families dedicated to one thing: making available to you the best plane we can possibly make. I hope to have this plane ready for early summer, with an estimated release date around the Nats.
-Mike
We took a novel approach to the design of this plane: we listened. We enlisted the input of some of the best pilots, designers and builders in the USA, and after initial flight testing, the results speak for themself. This plane is ultra competetive at ALL levels, and was primarily designed as an FAI plane. It excels in rolling combined manuevers, tracking, snapping, rudder work, and is a very cutting edge design. There are no sacrifices and no compromises with the flight characteristics of this plane. You don’t need a silly T canalizer to make the rudder behave, although we’re playing with some interesting things. The behavior and tracking in high turbulent wind is downright unbelievable. It is at least equal to if not better than any plane in the world today, and I say that with the utmost confidence. We took every opportunity to enhance the qualities and balance of this plane to be a “total packageâ€. We are just about there right now. We’re still looking for it’s weaknesses, and really haven’t found anything yet. I’m sure some plane out there may do one manuever a little easier, but this plane gives up nothing to any other plane in the world as far as the balance and flyability. The tracking, snapping, speed control and the way it handles high turbulent wind is absolutely uncanny. You have to see it to believe it, and this is one reason I haven’t said much until now...because this plane just shocked me, to put it bluntly.
I was afraid because of it’s size, it would be primarily for FAI and would be a detriment to a novice pilot. In the past, most designs of this size just won’t handle the wind well in the hands of a pilot who is fighting a crosswind. This plane is one of the tallest in the world, if not THE tallest, and I would almost go as far as to say it practically ignores the wind. The way it deals with turbulence is particularly impressive. It will weathervane slightly in a heavy dead cross, but it’s very easy and manageable, and not NEARLY as pronounced as other planes of this size. So right now I would have to say there is NO downside for a beginner that I can identify. That sort of changes the rules to the game, and I assure you it is just as much of a suprise to me. I designed it to penetrate, but never expected this.
Is it perfect? No, as long as we use spinning propellers things are a balance. But this is the most all around balanced plane I know of so far. And the things it excels in, are just downright amazing. Mixes are slim to none, right now the elevator is mixed to where it moves a hair at full left rudder deflection, the rest are not even measureable. Inverted pushes with this plane are suprisingly clean, it flies as well inverted as it does upright. Rolls are perfectly axial with no differential, upline and downlines are dead straight, upline and downline rolls are also dead straight, no adverse yaw at all, no dutch roll. Phrases coming from the test camp are things like “downlines are MONEY†and “points falling from heavenâ€. LOLOL this is why I have been quiet, the feedback is over the top. New plane euphoria is real, but apparently so is this plane. I only needed a few passes myself to know I had exactly what I wanted and then some.
What it is:
A true thoroughbred plane designed for the most challenging FAI sequences.
Although mainly constructed from wood and foam, many composite parts are utilized for ease of construction, strength and weight considerations. This was done primarily because I have to build them myself to make weight with axi outrunners and the heaviest of battery packs. I didn’t want to have to pull my hair out to make it happen. Well, let me tell you now....it’s easily doable. This plane is the lightest, strongest and most durable structure in the world today. And that is including fully composite planes. Some may be lighter, some may be stronger, but none of them are this light AND this strong. Coupled with a design that flies like this.....BINGO
Designed from the ground up to be a laser/CNC kit. Parts interlock via built in alignment tabs. These kits are like nothing you have ever seen before. Every single piece of this aircraft has been well thought out, engineered for maximum efficiency, strength to weight ratios and durability. Parts have been tested, fitted, retested and refitted until nothing is left to chance.
Ease of building and relatively low parts count were of utmost importance to us. All wood is hand picked and cut to perfection. Once the foam cores are sheeted, an average builder can frame this plane to the finishing stages in only a couple of week nights and weekends. The work involved isn’t too much more than your typical ARF, and argueably easier than the lower end stuff. If you possess the skill to build a Sig Kougar or a Kaos, you can build this plane with ease There really is nothing to compare it to, because before now it didn’t really exist.
What it is NOT:
It isn’t anything like you’ve ever seen before in a “wood†kit. Forget the preformed opinions and stereotypes about building in general and wood planes, because they simply do not apply. If you “don’t have time†to build, you may now be kidding yourself. If you “can’t build a plane as good as the chineseâ€, you may again be kidding yourself...you can do it MUCH better. Finishing is still up to you of course, but the actual structure of the plane itself is extremely easy, rigid and light. Complex shapes were kept to a minimum so anyone can use monokote on all but the composite parts.
Forget the stereotype that a wood plane is heavier than a composite plane of the same size, that is utter bull crap and a generalization that is as old as the first composite plane ever made. It is simply untrue. All that is required is the right materials and the right design and engineering. If you put 3 lbs of paint on it, that’s your fault =)
Forget jigs and fixtures, you simply need a flat table with a single straight line drawn on it. Although I still much prefer the use of a jig, it can be done without one very easily.
This plane is NOT simply an updated or bashed version of the Black Magic V2. The entire design is completely different, from the ground up.
This plane is NOT an ARF. Although you do have to build and finish it, even a rank beginner or a person with very little time can easily have an airframe comparable to the most high end ARFs or professionally built planes.
This plane is NOT a compromise in any area. Some aesthetic things were kept simple for the sake of time and weight, but the plane itself is a cutting edge flyer. The kits are borderline ridiculous in quality.
This plane is NOT small. It is one of the larger F3A planes in the world. If you don’t like the “pregnant guppy†look, you will probably hate the looks of this plane. That’s ok, to each his own. Fly it then tell me how you like it.
This plane is NOT specifically an “entry level†plane. If you are not fairly comfortable with the left stick, you will be very soon after flying this plane. With that said, it is one of the easiest planes to fly, including heavy winds. Judging by the sheer size I was afraid it would act the same in crosswinds as other planes....it does not. This plane is designed to penetrate turbulence, yet still offer very slow downlines. The flight speed envelope is VERY wide. Don’t be shocked if you find yourself adding power in downlines.
General info:
Wingspan- 74
Length- 78.25
Weight- 9.5-10.75 lbs (depending on equipment choice and finish)
Power- 160+ glow or electric
Construction- balsa, foam, composite
To sum up:
Our goal was to go back to square one and design a “no compromises†plane fully capable of competing with the best in the world, PERIOD. We did not use simplified construction methods specifically to make it simple, we used these techniques because they produce the lightest, strongest, straightest structure available. Making it easy to build was a selfish reason....I have to build them too
The plane was designed around the axi/hacker outrunner electric set ups and the YS/Hatori combination. Use of a 2 stroke glow OR gas with a long exhaust was made simple by making a very easy open pipe tunnel. Any power system will work, but I would not suggest anything less than a 160 glow. Although a 140 would pull this plane through the lower class sequences very well, to get the full performance of this design you really need a 160.
This plane can be built extremely light, much lighter than generally thought possible before. Making weight even with the heaviest of electric set ups is not difficult at all. The “true†weight of the prototype, which was built with heavy regular balsa, heavy equipment and nothing even trimmed, is about 10 lbs 4 ounces, because it was weighed at 10lbs 6 ounces with the header tank full. The use of contest balsa alone would easily make this plane in the mid 9s with no special tricks, even glassed and painted.... Of course, your finishing methods could vary the weight in the end.
The completeness of the kits is still being worked out. My hope is to make a very basic and inexpensive wood kit for those wanting a world class plane without a world class price tag, and a top end “pro level†kit that is very complete with all of the perks, for those who want the BEST. Exact pricing and availability is to be determined soon. I used a LOT of carbon laminates in the top end kits, so it won’t be dirt cheap. The lower end kits are essentially the same plane without the fancy carbon stuff. Naturally they will be a hair bit heavier when finished, but will still last forever and a day.
The V2 is the plane that can take you from Sportsman to masters with the best of them. This is the plane that can get you all the way to the FAI finals. The V2.2 is still one of the best planes out there for the AMA classes, but this one may be even better. We have intermediate pilots testing it too so we shall see. So far the feedback is very VERY positive.
The bar has been raised. If I sound confident, it’s because I am. I cannot possibly express the blood, sweat and tears that have gone into this plane, on everyone’s part. This plane is American designed, constructed and tested, and fully supported by cottage industry families dedicated to one thing: making available to you the best plane we can possibly make. I hope to have this plane ready for early summer, with an estimated release date around the Nats.
-Mike
04-04-2007, 12:15 PM
#3
RE: Coming this summer: Black Magic VF3
Mike,
Why do you have to be like that?? I just got my Pentathlon kit and no time to build, now I will probably have to order the VF3 when it comes out. That's another kit, another gas engine, more servos, etc... You trying to keep me broke or what? And then there is the time issue. I am going to be bleary eyed and screwed up from the sleep deprivation necessary to build all these fantastic airplanes before I die.
So, I ask you - Why do you have to be like that??
Gorgeous plane, congrats on an excellent piece of work.
Mark
Why do you have to be like that?? I just got my Pentathlon kit and no time to build, now I will probably have to order the VF3 when it comes out. That's another kit, another gas engine, more servos, etc... You trying to keep me broke or what? And then there is the time issue. I am going to be bleary eyed and screwed up from the sleep deprivation necessary to build all these fantastic airplanes before I die.
So, I ask you - Why do you have to be like that??
Gorgeous plane, congrats on an excellent piece of work.
Mark
04-04-2007, 01:36 PM
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RE: Coming this summer: Black Magic VF3
Crack dealer......ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!! Come on now, we all need our fix in one way or another!
gee thanks Pete!!!
Nahhh she'd be fine with it, I'm sure
-Mike
gee thanks Pete!!!
Nahhh she'd be fine with it, I'm sure
-Mike
04-04-2007, 02:07 PM
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RE: Coming this summer: Black Magic VF3
Can the fuse be covered instead of glass and paint, guess what I'm asking is does the fuse need glassed to add strenght to it?
Looks great Mike make you look small LOL.
Steve Maxwell
Looks great Mike make you look small LOL.
Steve Maxwell
04-04-2007, 02:25 PM
#7
RE: Coming this summer: Black Magic VF3
Hey Guys,
Some of you all know I've been good friends with Mike for a long time, actually it was love at first site, well I mean at my first pattern meet (Andersonville, Ga 2005) I saw the lovely Black Magic V1 prototype sitting in the pits. It was brand new, all done up in cub yellow and metallic blue trim. It was true love, I didn't know what that plane was or who owned it, I just had to have it. Well to make a long story short, I ended up becoming great friends with Mike and Melissa. I started building a V2 at the beginning of last years pattern season. Yea, I went though the ups and downs of pattern life with two midairs last year, the last one taking away from me that Black Magic prototype that Mike actually gave me after my first midair earlier in the season. Love can be tough at times. But I learned a lot about pattern, flying and competition from Mike and my other close pattern friends last year.
I was lucky enough to win a sheeted kit from Mike for my districts finish last year and Mike gave me the option of waiting a bit longer for his newest creation. It was a no brainer - I said "yes... hell yes" most likely the best decision I've made in a long time.
I've started my VF3 build last weekend, first I made a "fixture" style jig. Which like Mike says it isn't even needed because you can actually tape the fuse together, line it up on a straight line and hit it with CA. You can build the entire crutch in less than 2 hours including assembling the fuselage sides. Right now the most time consuming part of the basic fuse build is hand cutting the flooring which Mike is considering having laser cut. What is nice about my fixture jig is you can align the wing and stab tubes at the same time. Pete's jig works the same way. I also have Pete's Jig and have built a number of fuses with his setup as well, I do recommend Pete's jig to anyone.
Mike is right, this plane is so easy to build, it's freaky. I am rushing to have my secret weapon done in time for the majority of the D3 comps and Nats. To be frank about it, it's my only hope to have a good districts finish as I am up against some very great pilots in D3.
Here is a couple of shots of my build,
yea it's a VF3 BABY!
cheers all!
Some of you all know I've been good friends with Mike for a long time, actually it was love at first site, well I mean at my first pattern meet (Andersonville, Ga 2005) I saw the lovely Black Magic V1 prototype sitting in the pits. It was brand new, all done up in cub yellow and metallic blue trim. It was true love, I didn't know what that plane was or who owned it, I just had to have it. Well to make a long story short, I ended up becoming great friends with Mike and Melissa. I started building a V2 at the beginning of last years pattern season. Yea, I went though the ups and downs of pattern life with two midairs last year, the last one taking away from me that Black Magic prototype that Mike actually gave me after my first midair earlier in the season. Love can be tough at times. But I learned a lot about pattern, flying and competition from Mike and my other close pattern friends last year.
I was lucky enough to win a sheeted kit from Mike for my districts finish last year and Mike gave me the option of waiting a bit longer for his newest creation. It was a no brainer - I said "yes... hell yes" most likely the best decision I've made in a long time.
I've started my VF3 build last weekend, first I made a "fixture" style jig. Which like Mike says it isn't even needed because you can actually tape the fuse together, line it up on a straight line and hit it with CA. You can build the entire crutch in less than 2 hours including assembling the fuselage sides. Right now the most time consuming part of the basic fuse build is hand cutting the flooring which Mike is considering having laser cut. What is nice about my fixture jig is you can align the wing and stab tubes at the same time. Pete's jig works the same way. I also have Pete's Jig and have built a number of fuses with his setup as well, I do recommend Pete's jig to anyone.
Mike is right, this plane is so easy to build, it's freaky. I am rushing to have my secret weapon done in time for the majority of the D3 comps and Nats. To be frank about it, it's my only hope to have a good districts finish as I am up against some very great pilots in D3.
Here is a couple of shots of my build,
yea it's a VF3 BABY!
cheers all!
04-04-2007, 04:12 PM
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RE: Coming this summer: Black Magic VF3
Steve, the plane in the pictures is all monokote. I intentionally kept some things simple just for that reason. the only 2 tricky spots are the fin area where it blends into the fuse (which may be replaced with a composite fin, working on that now) and the area right behind the cowl.
I did the fuse and rudder in one day.
-Mike
I did the fuse and rudder in one day.
-Mike
04-04-2007, 08:09 PM
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RE: Coming this summer: Black Magic VF3
I really can't wait to get my hands on one if these kits. When can the public start placing orders?
One again Mike has managed to impress me and that is not easy to do.[8D][8D][8D]
When can the public start placing orders?One again Mike has managed to impress me and that is not easy to do.[8D][8D][8D]
04-04-2007, 10:07 PM
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RE: Coming this summer: Black Magic VF3
Here is some pictures I got of it in Ocala, to bad we were not able to get some in flight Mike but GMA is just around the corner. I will send these to you as well. See you in GA!!
04-04-2007, 10:56 PM
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RE: Coming this summer: Black Magic VF3
Guys,
I had the honors in Ocala with flights 1-3 and have the prototype now for more flying and evaluation. Getting the prototype in the air was fantastic "Team" effort with Mike & Melissa bleeding balsa dust,-paint-monocote, Dean adding some trick graphics, Jim Ivey checking on things, Don Hamilton's YS 160 setup, and I monocoted the wings/stabs and added the radio stuff to the equation. It all came together hot and fast with in the end to make it ready for Ocala, it was totally worth it, and I'd like to thank Mike and everyone for their contribution and hard work!
The plane flew INCREDIBLY well right off the bat. Anyone could fly this plane without mix and be very happy. Mike hit the CG spot on and it was off to some rate/expo adjustment and into F07. This plane has HUGE side area by flight #2 I was into Rolling S's, rolling circles, 1/2 outside loop with full roll, knife edges, -I even threw in some straight and level once in a while! The plane has an uncanny locked feel to it. It could do full field passes in very bumpy air hands off. There were a bunch of other planes in the air and you could see them being buffetted, where as the VF3 was just glued in place in the air! It was a pure joy and pleasure to fly.
This plane in one rollin'mother!! Even at low horizontal velocity the fuselage barely shows any kind of angle - like during 20 mph down wind, 1/4 throttle knife edge bottom of the reverse triangle loop. Later at the contest there was a line of folks waiting to try - most the FAI guys were drooling over it. While the look is of course similar the V2, one said after flying, "... This is a totally different plane." I say that to enforce that this is truly a new and different plane build for a single purpose - loop/roll-combination stuff, and by the way, happens to be the best overall plane I've flown too.
Last Saturday I flew it again at the home field on my own setups and transmitter and reinforced all the initial beliefs. Number one, it trackes EXCEPTIONALLY well in the wind. Miami was 15 gusting 25 down the runway. I flew it up down the runway, then turned 90 degrees for a sequence and the plane is just effortless to fly in the wind. I consistently did the BEST rolling S and 1/2 outside loops of my life! Gentleman - this plane has taken quite a bit of mystery out of these crazy maneuvers by being designed for them from the start. It has never been easier to hit pitch/yaw/roll at the same time during the exit of the 1/2 outside loop with full roll. Upline point rolls in the winds stay ON LINE, with only a little to no deviation - read as no excessive "lean-into" the wind type of effect going on.
My main feeling is that this plane is going to turn some 940's into 980s or 990s because I can SEE where it instantly cleaned up some areas I've struggled with - making them easier to perform, and dare I say, adding even more confidence to the pilot. Also - get ready to use throttle management.... on the downlines. If your YS is ticking at 1900rpms at takeoff, you'll have time for coffee and dohunts even during the 1/2 outside loop from the top with opposite 1/2 rolls
-all while the "haul-but" option is still present if you choose to wield it (even on the 18x10)
I am VERY excited about this plane! I think it is going to be a scoring weapon for anyone who is flying one. I've struggled not to make this post sound "over-the-top" and actually resisted most the adjetives I've used disucssing it with friends. I will leave it to the others who have flown it to chime in if they want to. I congratualate Mike for bringing a world class plane, designed for the toughest manevuers, into a US Manufactured laser-cut kit that will be accessible to the pattern community.
My pesonal feeling is that folks are going to start to re-examine building again. There was a time that in order to get a new-cutting-edge design, you needed to go Euro with a ZNLine or PL Prod plane and the wood kits fell off the planet for a while. Now that the 'kit' community is up to speed again, I think the "builder" inside the "pattern" flyer is going to emerge once again because face it guys, we like things done our way...
Thanks,
Jim W.
PS. Mike - the Prototype is on official "ransom" until my own VF3 is done
I had the honors in Ocala with flights 1-3 and have the prototype now for more flying and evaluation. Getting the prototype in the air was fantastic "Team" effort with Mike & Melissa bleeding balsa dust,-paint-monocote, Dean adding some trick graphics, Jim Ivey checking on things, Don Hamilton's YS 160 setup, and I monocoted the wings/stabs and added the radio stuff to the equation. It all came together hot and fast with in the end to make it ready for Ocala, it was totally worth it, and I'd like to thank Mike and everyone for their contribution and hard work!
The plane flew INCREDIBLY well right off the bat. Anyone could fly this plane without mix and be very happy. Mike hit the CG spot on and it was off to some rate/expo adjustment and into F07. This plane has HUGE side area by flight #2 I was into Rolling S's, rolling circles, 1/2 outside loop with full roll, knife edges, -I even threw in some straight and level once in a while! The plane has an uncanny locked feel to it. It could do full field passes in very bumpy air hands off. There were a bunch of other planes in the air and you could see them being buffetted, where as the VF3 was just glued in place in the air! It was a pure joy and pleasure to fly.
This plane in one rollin'mother!! Even at low horizontal velocity the fuselage barely shows any kind of angle - like during 20 mph down wind, 1/4 throttle knife edge bottom of the reverse triangle loop. Later at the contest there was a line of folks waiting to try - most the FAI guys were drooling over it. While the look is of course similar the V2, one said after flying, "... This is a totally different plane." I say that to enforce that this is truly a new and different plane build for a single purpose - loop/roll-combination stuff, and by the way, happens to be the best overall plane I've flown too.
Last Saturday I flew it again at the home field on my own setups and transmitter and reinforced all the initial beliefs. Number one, it trackes EXCEPTIONALLY well in the wind. Miami was 15 gusting 25 down the runway. I flew it up down the runway, then turned 90 degrees for a sequence and the plane is just effortless to fly in the wind. I consistently did the BEST rolling S and 1/2 outside loops of my life! Gentleman - this plane has taken quite a bit of mystery out of these crazy maneuvers by being designed for them from the start. It has never been easier to hit pitch/yaw/roll at the same time during the exit of the 1/2 outside loop with full roll. Upline point rolls in the winds stay ON LINE, with only a little to no deviation - read as no excessive "lean-into" the wind type of effect going on.
My main feeling is that this plane is going to turn some 940's into 980s or 990s because I can SEE where it instantly cleaned up some areas I've struggled with - making them easier to perform, and dare I say, adding even more confidence to the pilot. Also - get ready to use throttle management.... on the downlines. If your YS is ticking at 1900rpms at takeoff, you'll have time for coffee and dohunts even during the 1/2 outside loop from the top with opposite 1/2 rolls
-all while the "haul-but" option is still present if you choose to wield it (even on the 18x10)I am VERY excited about this plane! I think it is going to be a scoring weapon for anyone who is flying one. I've struggled not to make this post sound "over-the-top" and actually resisted most the adjetives I've used disucssing it with friends. I will leave it to the others who have flown it to chime in if they want to. I congratualate Mike for bringing a world class plane, designed for the toughest manevuers, into a US Manufactured laser-cut kit that will be accessible to the pattern community.
My pesonal feeling is that folks are going to start to re-examine building again. There was a time that in order to get a new-cutting-edge design, you needed to go Euro with a ZNLine or PL Prod plane and the wood kits fell off the planet for a while. Now that the 'kit' community is up to speed again, I think the "builder" inside the "pattern" flyer is going to emerge once again
because face it guys, we like things done our way...Thanks,
Jim W.
PS. Mike - the Prototype is on official "ransom" until my own VF3 is done
04-05-2007, 05:13 AM
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RE: Coming this summer: Black Magic VF3
Hallo Mike,
Looking fantastic.
Will this plane only be a kit version, or will it be possible to build it from a plan?
Regards
Attie
Looking fantastic.
Will this plane only be a kit version, or will it be possible to build it from a plan?
Regards
Attie
04-05-2007, 01:38 PM
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RE: Coming this summer: Black Magic VF3
Jimbo, well said, i'd echo pretty much everything. The downline breaking, and the ease of "Slow" flight, if that your style; amazed me... as newbies to the Team black Magic,Stephen, and i found it "Game-on" right from the first flight. Mike Hester, has opened the door for all competitors to have a killer pattern bird(Wood-is-good) without breaking the bank, and selling your first born.
Congrats, on an award winning design. A huge thanks goes to Jim Woodard, for his trimming,test flights,and continued dedication to "Perfection".
Congrats, on an award winning design. A huge thanks goes to Jim Woodard, for his trimming,test flights,and continued dedication to "Perfection".
04-05-2007, 06:02 PM
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RE: Coming this summer: Black Magic VF3
Hey Mike Hester,
A couple of quick questions:
1. You mentioned an open pipe tunnel, does that mean a foam belly core or a glass belly pan? A sheeted foam belly from the
cowl to the rudder post would be ideal for an electric version. Just curious...
2. How about the removable canopy, an extra long canopy that extends to the firewall would be fantastic. Easy access for the
ESC and that sort of stuff...
Thanks Mike,the plane looks great, you should be as proud as a new baby daddy!
Gene Webber
A couple of quick questions:
1. You mentioned an open pipe tunnel, does that mean a foam belly core or a glass belly pan? A sheeted foam belly from the
cowl to the rudder post would be ideal for an electric version. Just curious...
2. How about the removable canopy, an extra long canopy that extends to the firewall would be fantastic. Easy access for the
ESC and that sort of stuff...
Thanks Mike,the plane looks great, you should be as proud as a new baby daddy!
Gene Webber
04-06-2007, 09:10 AM
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RE: Coming this summer: Black Magic VF3
Well let's see...
First, these planes are NOT available yet, and I don't have the pricing worked out. Thanks for all the emails and calls, but basically I can sum up by saying I'll know more on the pricing in a few weeks, and I'll start taking orders soon after. The kits won't be available until this summer, earlier if I can manage it. We still have a lot of work to do before we have kits in stock ready to go. And testing isn't officially over yet, there may be some small massaging we want to take care of. That's IF we find anything, so far we have found no weaknesses.
To answer the questions, one of the things I hated about the V2 was the belly pan. It seemed like a good idea at the time, but in practice I ended up despising it. Now the bottom of the VF3 is a sheeted foam core that runs from the landing gear all the way to the tail block, one piece. Light, strong and simple. You do need 48" sheeting for this one though. The chin cowl goes from the landing gear forward. it's very light and very sturdy. The rear section of this piece has the face molded in, so you just trim, drill and away you go. Done.
The hatch is the same as the V2, canopy area. One huge difference: On the E version, it's very open to the firewall. You can stick half your arm in there. Access is not an issue. It's also shorter than the V2. I thought seriously about what you mentioned, but structure is a major concern to me. have a good look at the electrics that have the access hatch like this. Look closely and count the cracks. This can be overcome by adding more structure, but then you defeat the purpose of keeping it light. The torque of electrics is serious, much worse than glow. While glow has vibration issues to deal with, electrics have enough torque to rip the nose off a plane. Some laugh at this, but look and ask around and you'll see that the people that have had these failures aren't laughing. So in the interest of having a super light plane that will not break, I did it this way. I made quite a few special changes to the E version and we're still working on it as we speak. you have to basically design a whole new airplane from the rear of the wing forward.
I'm also working on a process to bond the canopy frames in the mold. This way all of that work is done and you just build the plane to the canopy. Like pressing the "easy" button. Most of this plane works like that. It's REALLY simple to build. I'm not kidding when I say I have built ARFs that took more work than this, and my planes don't break. Well they will if mistreated, but they don't under normal circumstances.
Yeah, I'm pretty happy with this thing to say the least [8D]
-Mike
First, these planes are NOT available yet, and I don't have the pricing worked out. Thanks for all the emails and calls, but basically I can sum up by saying I'll know more on the pricing in a few weeks, and I'll start taking orders soon after. The kits won't be available until this summer, earlier if I can manage it. We still have a lot of work to do before we have kits in stock ready to go. And testing isn't officially over yet, there may be some small massaging we want to take care of. That's IF we find anything, so far we have found no weaknesses.
To answer the questions, one of the things I hated about the V2 was the belly pan. It seemed like a good idea at the time, but in practice I ended up despising it. Now the bottom of the VF3 is a sheeted foam core that runs from the landing gear all the way to the tail block, one piece. Light, strong and simple. You do need 48" sheeting for this one though. The chin cowl goes from the landing gear forward. it's very light and very sturdy. The rear section of this piece has the face molded in, so you just trim, drill and away you go. Done.
The hatch is the same as the V2, canopy area. One huge difference: On the E version, it's very open to the firewall. You can stick half your arm in there. Access is not an issue. It's also shorter than the V2. I thought seriously about what you mentioned, but structure is a major concern to me. have a good look at the electrics that have the access hatch like this. Look closely and count the cracks. This can be overcome by adding more structure, but then you defeat the purpose of keeping it light. The torque of electrics is serious, much worse than glow. While glow has vibration issues to deal with, electrics have enough torque to rip the nose off a plane. Some laugh at this, but look and ask around and you'll see that the people that have had these failures aren't laughing. So in the interest of having a super light plane that will not break, I did it this way. I made quite a few special changes to the E version and we're still working on it as we speak. you have to basically design a whole new airplane from the rear of the wing forward.
I'm also working on a process to bond the canopy frames in the mold. This way all of that work is done and you just build the plane to the canopy. Like pressing the "easy" button. Most of this plane works like that. It's REALLY simple to build. I'm not kidding when I say I have built ARFs that took more work than this, and my planes don't break. Well they will if mistreated, but they don't under normal circumstances.
Yeah, I'm pretty happy with this thing to say the least [8D]
-Mike
04-06-2007, 02:06 PM
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RE: Coming this summer: Black Magic VF3
OK Mike,
That's good news on the belly being a sheeted foam core. That will make it fast to build, very ridgid and lighter than a glass pan...cool. As far as the hatch being full length to the firewall, you make valid points on strength. If and when you get an opporitunity maybe throw up some detailed pics of the new creation, such as the chin cowl arrangement and the belly/pipe tunnel configuration.
Thanks Mike, are you having fun doin' this airplane thing? That's the most important part.
Gene
That's good news on the belly being a sheeted foam core. That will make it fast to build, very ridgid and lighter than a glass pan...cool. As far as the hatch being full length to the firewall, you make valid points on strength. If and when you get an opporitunity maybe throw up some detailed pics of the new creation, such as the chin cowl arrangement and the belly/pipe tunnel configuration.
Thanks Mike, are you having fun doin' this airplane thing? That's the most important part.
Gene
04-06-2007, 02:33 PM
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RE: Coming this summer: Black Magic VF3
If I were having any more fun, you'd have to help me carry it [8D]
I don't have any detail pics yet, because the only one I have built is the prototype, and that is slightly misleading because I had to do some things differently in order to make plugs for the molds.
but soon....
-Mike
I don't have any detail pics yet, because the only one I have built is the prototype, and that is slightly misleading because I had to do some things differently in order to make plugs for the molds.
but soon....
-Mike
04-06-2007, 05:40 PM
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RE: Coming this summer: Black Magic VF3
Mike, how flexible is the firewall position? Guys running outrunners will want the firewall in a different position than glow guys. Any way to accommodate this?
04-06-2007, 08:04 PM
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RE: Coming this summer: Black Magic VF3
The firewall is pretty much set in stone, and I have a easy and standard way to mount the outrunners. Some people freak about it until they see it actually in place, and then realize you can pick the plane up by the prop and swing it around and the spinner doesn't even move....LOL
I see how the guys want to mount them to the nose and a support in the rear...we're working on a frame stsyem to accomidate this, although I'll tell you bluntly...I like the easy way much better, because it just won't fail. by the time you finish all of the bracing to make sure it stays put, you're actually much heavier than if you mount it my way. And more likely to fail anyway...
Pics fairly soon....
-Mike
I see how the guys want to mount them to the nose and a support in the rear...we're working on a frame stsyem to accomidate this, although I'll tell you bluntly...I like the easy way much better, because it just won't fail. by the time you finish all of the bracing to make sure it stays put, you're actually much heavier than if you mount it my way. And more likely to fail anyway...
Pics fairly soon....
-Mike
04-07-2007, 09:38 AM
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RE: Coming this summer: Black Magic VF3
Yes, stabs are removable and adjustable.
And sorry guys, I sorta doubt this one will be a scratch build. Doesn't mean it coudln't be done, but it's not specifically designed with that in mind.
-Mike
And sorry guys, I sorta doubt this one will be a scratch build. Doesn't mean it coudln't be done, but it's not specifically designed with that in mind.
-Mike
04-08-2007, 09:28 AM
#24
RE: Coming this summer: Black Magic VF3
Hi Mike,
Will you please this time be doing an alternative buildup wing/foam core wingbuild selection options for your VF3?
Shipping foam that size halfway across the globe is a no-no. We have been through this before, if you remember...
Regards,
Jeremy
Will you please this time be doing an alternative buildup wing/foam core wingbuild selection options for your VF3?
Shipping foam that size halfway across the globe is a no-no. We have been through this before, if you remember...
Regards,
Jeremy
04-08-2007, 11:06 AM
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RE: Coming this summer: Black Magic VF3
Hi Guys,
I wanted to pass along another flight report from yesterday. I joined and went flying at the Immokalee, FL club (100 miles one way drive). It was very windy and bumpy. Because I'm also developing my own line of giant-scale CF canisters, I took to flying my 42% Extra 260 for 4 flights. This is a VERY good plane - if not one of the best planes you can get for the IMAC circuit and precision IMAC flying. I have it setup purely for precision flight too (using only 1.0" controls horns, 3 servos/aileron, etc). So, 4 flights equated to 8 sequences over a 3 hr period and the the wind really sucked. You could see the plane getting buffeted around like crazy. Yaw was all over the place and it was difficult to"break" the plane away from the wind-vectors. Every line needed 3 control surface inputs just to remain straight. Seeing this, I was really not sure to go up with the VF3 but decided that it needed to be done. Given the worse conditions over the last flight day and seeing my 42% plane get buffeted around like crazy, I wasn't sure what my opinion was going to be after flying in these worse conditions. Last weeks flights were mostly up/down the wind, with one cross-wind flights, and given the wind directions & sun angle, any flying done was going to be pure cross. I was also out there with two other friends who were flying their IMAC planes.
The VF3 proved to me yesterday that "bigger doesn't neccessarily fly better!!!!!!!!" My other friends and I couldn't believe the degree to which the VF3 flew the sequences and handled the same bad/cross/bumpy winds we all just flew our 40+% IMAC planes in! Let no man say a plane this size can't handle a cross-wind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yesterday's flying more than validated what we experienced and I reported from last week. One of the best parts is the speed control. Just because its windy does NOT mean you need to fly faster! The "wings-level" and lock of the plane is beyond exceptional and sets a new standard from ANY other plane I've flown - or seen flown! I again let my flying partner and very expienced pattern flyer fly the VF3. He too was astonished at how easy the VF3 was to fly in these winds. It may sound a bit wierd, but we kept saying "Look at that line, look at that line." Uplines were perfect. Horizontal lines were perfect. The plane is nearly unphased by the wind. This plane is pure "money" all around the flight regime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks,
Jim W.
I wanted to pass along another flight report from yesterday. I joined and went flying at the Immokalee, FL club (100 miles one way drive). It was very windy and bumpy. Because I'm also developing my own line of giant-scale CF canisters, I took to flying my 42% Extra 260 for 4 flights. This is a VERY good plane - if not one of the best planes you can get for the IMAC circuit and precision IMAC flying. I have it setup purely for precision flight too (using only 1.0" controls horns, 3 servos/aileron, etc). So, 4 flights equated to 8 sequences over a 3 hr period and the the wind really sucked. You could see the plane getting buffeted around like crazy. Yaw was all over the place and it was difficult to"break" the plane away from the wind-vectors. Every line needed 3 control surface inputs just to remain straight. Seeing this, I was really not sure to go up with the VF3 but decided that it needed to be done. Given the worse conditions over the last flight day and seeing my 42% plane get buffeted around like crazy, I wasn't sure what my opinion was going to be after flying in these worse conditions. Last weeks flights were mostly up/down the wind, with one cross-wind flights, and given the wind directions & sun angle, any flying done was going to be pure cross. I was also out there with two other friends who were flying their IMAC planes.
The VF3 proved to me yesterday that "bigger doesn't neccessarily fly better!!!!!!!!" My other friends and I couldn't believe the degree to which the VF3 flew the sequences and handled the same bad/cross/bumpy winds we all just flew our 40+% IMAC planes in! Let no man say a plane this size can't handle a cross-wind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yesterday's flying more than validated what we experienced and I reported from last week. One of the best parts is the speed control. Just because its windy does NOT mean you need to fly faster! The "wings-level" and lock of the plane is beyond exceptional and sets a new standard from ANY other plane I've flown - or seen flown! I again let my flying partner and very expienced pattern flyer fly the VF3. He too was astonished at how easy the VF3 was to fly in these winds. It may sound a bit wierd, but we kept saying "Look at that line, look at that line." Uplines were perfect. Horizontal lines were perfect. The plane is nearly unphased by the wind. This plane is pure "money" all around the flight regime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks,
Jim W.