I was at a local IMAC meet, and everyone was flying Venus II's with YS 140's and I started asking around if anyone knew of any good .40 or .50 sized pattern planes that I could place a Saito .82 in, because I wanted it to be the fourth engine I purchased. My first three were the Tower Hobbies .46 (don't waste your money), the .46AX and the .55AX. People laughed. They advised not to waste my money on a small pattern plane that wouldn't perform up to my dreams. I took it as pretty good advice, and went off. I was running basic (and I mean BASIC) numbers, and the Venus II with a YS didn't come out to be much cheaper than the Goldberg Obsession 3D with a DA-50 on it. So, I decided I'd save my piggy-bank for that. After looking at it, I decided I might as well look into other 2M pattern planes since the price difference would only be a couple hundred bucks (sounds more when I say it like that). It seems the DA-50 is extremely powerful and reliable, and gasoline is cheaper than glow fuel and sounds nicer...so I thought it'd be a nice engine to go big with.

Anyway, what I would like help with (from those kind enough to give it) would be a list of everything I'd need to run a pattern plane in the 12-15lb range with a DA-50. Hopefully do some basic 3D, because of the power/weight, but not extremely important. Please suggest reasonably priced ARF airframes (I don't have the space or time to build kit, though I'd love to) and battery packs, servos, etc to get it flying well. I think that this could easily become a sort of general "first 2m pattern plane" thread. Please include, also, when you think someone should jump from smaller models to the bigger sizes. I would like to send my thanks, in advance, to all those kind enough to help.

Victor,

Probably you were at a pattern contest. Usually in IMAC contest you see large gas engines in 30-40% planes. In pattern the weight limit is 11 lbs that is difficult to meet with a gas engine. If you want a 2 meter pattern plane check the Focus II at Central Hobbies. You will find a lot of pattern information at www.nsrca.org.

Suerte,

Vicente "Vince" Bortone

Vince,

You're right about the 11lb weight limit, and am sorry for not having clarified. I live in El Salvador at the moment, and the contest consisted of around 16 pilots in basic and 4 in sportsman from El Salvador and Guatemala. It's not an actual IMAC event, technically, but the IMAC patterns were being flown and the judges were judging in an IMAC manner. There really aren't big models in El Salvador - just one QQ Yak 102", one Obsession 3D, one 46% H9 Ultimate (not flying yet) and they're all owned by the same guy that flew outside this country. A couple quarter-scale-ish planes, but that's it.

Also, the Focus II is a beautiful plane, but the price is kind of up there. I know it's nothing compared to the $3000+ Oxai models, but I'm on a very tight budget. What servos/batteries/accessories would you use on this type of plane?

On a budget, I'd do an Ultra RC evolution, OS 140 RX or OS 160, aeroslave pipe, and good coreless BB servos. To get started in pattern in the US you can get a 40-60 size plane and compete in sportsman and intermediate. From what I have seen in IMAC size does matter.

Last year I flew sportsman mostly with a kyosho Oxalys with a saito 82. It flies great until the wind gets up, then the bigger planes have an advantage.

You can do the Venus II with an OS 120 AX for less. YOu don't need the overkill of a YS 140 in it.

You could also do the Venus .40 with your 82

I know that smaller pattern planes aren't particularly BAD, I just don't see them as being quite as stable. Also, does the 120AX really have enough Power-to-weight to do a good job in the VenusII? If it is used, however, wouldn't it require a pump to get fuel from the midship tank? I'll look into the VenusII/120AX combo, looks pretty good. I know the Venus's won't do any 3D in the hands of anyone less than perfect, but I know there must be some pattern ships that do okay 3D. Does anyone have any experience 3D-ing the Obsession 3D?

Now, let's say I'm stubborn (anyone who has met me will agree that stubborn is an understatement) and am stuck on the DA-50. My list includes: 2 Futaba S3004 (throttle/choke), 5 JR ST126MG (everything else), Futaba R138 PCM 8-channel receiver, the DA with the DA in-cowl muffler, two Hydrimax 6.0V 4200mAh NiMH Sub-C Flat batteries, 1 Smartfly Turbo-Reg.
Okay, that gives battery redundancy. What do you think of the set-up so far? What ignition battery should I use? Are there any accessories that aren't completely necessary but a definite plus to have?
One last question for this post, are there any ARF pattern ships around 12-14 pounds (75-80, i'm guessing) at or under $450?

I think you may want to ask this in the IMAC forum. The zdz 40 and MVVS 160 are the only gassers I've seen on a pattern plane. If your stuck on a DA 50, the Imac guys have more experience.

My opinions:
I dont think a 3D plane can fly pattern very good. Sure there are planes that claim to do both but dont do both very well. If I were going to do the IMAC your doing I'd get a inexpensive pattern plane. It would be easier to fly than anything scale. Sounds like your minds made up so go for the DA 50 and have a blast. Maybe at least try to fly someones 2 Meter pattership to see what I'm talking about. I think most would agree if they couldnt have a 40% er they would have a 2 Meter patternship for Basic IMAC.

Thanks very much for the advice!

How strict are the rules at the F3A comps where you are?

Most of the comps here in the uk ive been to would allow you to fly anything 'reasonble' in most classes.
The point being is to encourage newcomers to the F3A scene. Let them come and try it without having to spend fortunes.

If you can bend the rules and you want the DA then look for something like a chip hyde vision or double vision even, ask around and you might pick one up cheap!
They fly pattern very well.

Good luck.

Victor,

Take a look at the Spot On 120 - for $399 plus a YS Sport 140 motor you can be in the air at a good price. There is a thread here that was started by Riot3D.

with the DA50 -you are simply not talking to the right choir--
can an excellent pattern plane be done with the DA50 ?
absolutely-
but not at 11 lb -
that is a tough number to hit -even for guys with a lot of design background -but make no mistake - it can be done - just a little larger than the stuff you see as "2mm planes".
get some wood n slightly scale up something you see which appeals to you
there are no magic designs -just pick one easy to do .
as for the 3000 buck stuff -
PT Barnum had a phrase for it ---

Dick is pretty much on the mark as usual.

if you're just stuck on a DA 50, it can be done, but it's going to require more work from you if you want it to be "legal" as a pattern airplane.

Your only limiting factors for legality within the rules are:

Less than 78.74" (2 meters) total length or wing span
Less than 11 lbs (or 5kg) total weight without fuel (or gas)
Less than 96db (but I haven't looked lately, they did tinker with the sound rule)

At the risk of "pushing product", let me say that a local guy named Dan Holzworth has now built 2 Black Magics around 10 lbs 6-8 ozs with an evolution gas engine (same as mvvs). A ZDZ 40 F3A would be ideal I think. It might be a couple of ounces heavier with that set up, but it is fairly easy to do without having to pull your hair out, and it would CERTAINLY have enough power. There's nothing "magic" about the Black Magic series of planes, on the contrary, they are very simple and that's the key. if you wanted to have a more traditional wood/foam/glass type of airframe, then this one does work very well for what you're looking for. It is not an ARF and you have to build it. But the VF3 is an EXTREMELY capable competition plane and it's all laser cut, self aligning and very simple.

If you wanted a composite plane, I know some out west have had some good success with the Abbra and the zdz 40, but it can be difficult to get one at times. Others may or may not hold up to the harsh nature of a gas engine.

if you try an ARF, then well, good luck, it's a crap shoot. if you find one that'll make weight it more than likely may have problems holding up under that engine. That being said look around and maybe take a shot at it.

From what you describe, you are dead set on a DA 50. if that's truly the case, then good luck, and if you do manage to get it legal, please post the info here because we all want to know about it! Complete with weights, pics and all the juicy details!

-Mike