SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
12-18-2009, 11:16 PM
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RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
I am looking at something and it looks promising but again, I won't discuss it until I've had a chance to work it out some.
Looking forward to your idea.
12-19-2009, 02:10 AM
#152
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RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
ORIGINAL: Gungadin
Matt- I am very interested in the results from your engine/prop tests. Hope you will post the results and your general impressions on this engine suitability for pattern. I am very strongly considering going with the Focus II and Syssa 180 for my winter project, but it would be a un-tested combo, and I'm getting to old to be a pioneer.
Matt- I am very interested in the results from your engine/prop tests. Hope you will post the results and your general impressions on this engine suitability for pattern. I am very strongly considering going with the Focus II and Syssa 180 for my winter project, but it would be a un-tested combo, and I'm getting to old to be a pioneer.
Regardless, I am testing a very different prop than is typical. It is not currently commercially available. It's a 19x10 Xoar electric wood base reinforced with carbon. Sure the electric prop is readily available and the carbon and epoxy are available. But the laminated prop is my brainchild. I also have a 20x10 of similar construction I want to run
Performance on the ground is great but it is the air performance I want and can't get yet
We've done minimal testing with pattern size APCs and those results are earlier in this thread. We will do much more but not in the cards right now.
MattK
12-19-2009, 09:45 AM
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RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
Thanks, Dan, for the link.
On the 50cc planes I use 2 Rx batteries with separate switches, plugged into separate slots in 1 Receiver (bigger planes using 2 Rx for redundancy). I could see piggybacking this IBEC (or something similar) off one of those batteries, without having the ignition power channeled through the Rx.
What bothers me is, automatic shut-down if signal is lost. Lost for how long??? I could foresee a situation where the antennae might be blocked momentarily at a long distance with the plane in a certain attitude, then quickly regain the signal. In that situation I don't think any of us would want automatic engine cut-off.
Maybe in reality these are not practical considerations, but they occurred to me.
Also, I had trepidations about 2.4 Ghz when it first came out, and now I am completely sold, so I am not ruling anything out at this point. If it works, it would be a heckuva lot better than having 2 batts when weight is a big consideration. In this case, perhaps the Fromeco 2600 Li-ion w/reg might be my choice. Very light weight for 2600 mah.
Setting up the servos/linkages for most minimal amp draw is critical.
On the 50cc planes I use 2 Rx batteries with separate switches, plugged into separate slots in 1 Receiver (bigger planes using 2 Rx for redundancy). I could see piggybacking this IBEC (or something similar) off one of those batteries, without having the ignition power channeled through the Rx.
What bothers me is, automatic shut-down if signal is lost. Lost for how long??? I could foresee a situation where the antennae might be blocked momentarily at a long distance with the plane in a certain attitude, then quickly regain the signal. In that situation I don't think any of us would want automatic engine cut-off.
Maybe in reality these are not practical considerations, but they occurred to me.
Also, I had trepidations about 2.4 Ghz when it first came out, and now I am completely sold, so I am not ruling anything out at this point. If it works, it would be a heckuva lot better than having 2 batts when weight is a big consideration. In this case, perhaps the Fromeco 2600 Li-ion w/reg might be my choice. Very light weight for 2600 mah.
Setting up the servos/linkages for most minimal amp draw is critical.
12-19-2009, 10:05 AM
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RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
Bob- Yes I also would need some more info as to how well this new batt. eliminator works and find out if there are any shortcomings or is it all good. As far as batteries go I have been using A123 batt. in my pattern plane all last season with great results, as well as an IMAC airplane with the same results. Pack only weighs 3 oz. and will give me 8 or 9 flights. But I usually charge after 5. Only takes 11 min. to charge back to full. And no voltage reg. to mess with. Batt. plugs straight to the RX'r. I'm sold
12-19-2009, 10:30 AM
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RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
I guess we will have to wait a while to see what features and capabilities Todd Syssa's IBEC has.
If Matt, Ed and the other guys are willing to use it in their very nice planes, then that is blessing enough for me.
Our Focuses (Foci?) are very cheap compared to the Prestiges, Integrals, Black Magics and the like. When I brought my Venus II to a pattern meet a couple of years ago it was like showing up at Churchill Downs with a cow.
If Matt, Ed and the other guys are willing to use it in their very nice planes, then that is blessing enough for me.
Our Focuses (Foci?) are very cheap compared to the Prestiges, Integrals, Black Magics and the like. When I brought my Venus II to a pattern meet a couple of years ago it was like showing up at Churchill Downs with a cow.
12-19-2009, 10:52 AM
#159
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RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
ORIGINAL: Gungadin
Matt-Do you know if there is any truth to the rumour of a F3A version of the Syssa 180 coming down the road ?
Matt-Do you know if there is any truth to the rumour of a F3A version of the Syssa 180 coming down the road ?
But I don't know how much more prop we need it to turn. It already is turning a 19x10 with very good authority but this has not been tested in the air in the heat of the summer
Whether Todd Syssa will build a larger prototype than the current engine, for pattern specific application, waits to be seen. Several variables need to be considered, key among these is the market. Right now I am just tickled that we have a guy with engine knowhow and resources actually willing to listen to the needs of the pattern afficionado. In other words, we have backed off the hyperbole and are trying to figure out what we already have....what we already have on hand is pretty good
Todd is planning a couple much larger engines for IMAC to compete with DA and 3W.
MattK
12-19-2009, 11:17 AM
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RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
Thanks Matt for your response. Just wish we had some more performance data. And as far as flying this engine in a pattern plane, it probably won't happen this time of year with the typical weather we have, so I can only go by what you have previously stated, which is very encouraging. More will be revealed as time goes on I'm sure. Thanks for your input.
12-19-2009, 02:32 PM
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RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
wouldn't call it anything yet. We are working towards a version of the engine that has reduced exhaust timing than the current version. In theory, it will allow it to turn slightly larger prop more comfortably. It should produce a little more torque at lower rpm. Total output will not change since nothing is being done with displacement. We are simply trying to slightly modify the torque curve without doing any engine overhauls. The mod is very simple and requires nothing new
12-19-2009, 05:41 PM
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RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
Just wondering where to buy the SAP 180 and get stats on it.
Thanks for the assistance.
ps; nothing ventured nothing lost or crashed!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for the assistance.
ps; nothing ventured nothing lost or crashed!!!!!!!!!!!!
12-19-2009, 06:02 PM
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12-24-2009, 05:36 PM
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RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
Well, guess what ol' Santa left on the doorstep?
This engine is a work of art. Everything about it is first rate, from big things like the beautifully CNC'd crankcase that has an industrial seriousness about it, and the satin sheen on the bead-blasted cylinder, and the super-smooth slop-free bearings. And even the smaller - but no less important - things like the excellent braided wire shielding on the spark plug wire (finer weave and more durable than any other I've seen), and the little safety clips for the Futaba-style ignition and sensor plugs, and - get this! - a set of 2-56 Dubro Ball Links for the throttle linkage!
This is one of those gems that just exudes quality.
Okay, so I just got it and I am just finishing up the smaller project I was working on, so I won't be able to start measuring it up for its new home until late tomorrow (I have to work!!). However, for those who are doing the Focus II set-up with the ES pipe, that is one of the first things I will be doing because I want to get that pipe channel modified right off the bat so that I will know what space I'll have to work with inside the fuse.
I hope Santa is as good to you as he has been to me.
And thanks, Todd, for making a great product and getting it out to us!
This engine is a work of art. Everything about it is first rate, from big things like the beautifully CNC'd crankcase that has an industrial seriousness about it, and the satin sheen on the bead-blasted cylinder, and the super-smooth slop-free bearings. And even the smaller - but no less important - things like the excellent braided wire shielding on the spark plug wire (finer weave and more durable than any other I've seen), and the little safety clips for the Futaba-style ignition and sensor plugs, and - get this! - a set of 2-56 Dubro Ball Links for the throttle linkage!
This is one of those gems that just exudes quality.
Okay, so I just got it and I am just finishing up the smaller project I was working on, so I won't be able to start measuring it up for its new home until late tomorrow (I have to work!!). However, for those who are doing the Focus II set-up with the ES pipe, that is one of the first things I will be doing because I want to get that pipe channel modified right off the bat so that I will know what space I'll have to work with inside the fuse.
I hope Santa is as good to you as he has been to me.
And thanks, Todd, for making a great product and getting it out to us!
12-24-2009, 09:52 PM
#168
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RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
ORIGINAL: cmoulder
Well, guess what ol' Santa left on the doorstep?
This engine is a work of art. Everything about it is first rate, from big things like the beautifully CNC'd crankcase that has an industrial seriousness about it, and the satin sheen on the bead-blasted cylinder, and the super-smooth slop-free bearings. And even the smaller - but no less important - things like the excellent braided wire shielding on the spark plug wire (finer weave and more durable than any other I've seen), and the little safety clips for the Futaba-style ignition and sensor plugs, and - get this! - a set of 2-56 Dubro Ball Links for the throttle linkage!
This is one of those gems that just exudes quality.
Okay, so I just got it and I am just finishing up the smaller project I was working on, so I won't be able to start measuring it up for its new home until late tomorrow (I have to work!!). However, for those who are doing the Focus II set-up with the ES pipe, that is one of the first things I will be doing because I want to get that pipe channel modified right off the bat so that I will know what space I'll have to work with inside the fuse.
I hope Santa is as good to you as he has been to me.
And thanks, Todd, for making a great product and getting it out to us!
Well, guess what ol' Santa left on the doorstep?
This engine is a work of art. Everything about it is first rate, from big things like the beautifully CNC'd crankcase that has an industrial seriousness about it, and the satin sheen on the bead-blasted cylinder, and the super-smooth slop-free bearings. And even the smaller - but no less important - things like the excellent braided wire shielding on the spark plug wire (finer weave and more durable than any other I've seen), and the little safety clips for the Futaba-style ignition and sensor plugs, and - get this! - a set of 2-56 Dubro Ball Links for the throttle linkage!
This is one of those gems that just exudes quality.
Okay, so I just got it and I am just finishing up the smaller project I was working on, so I won't be able to start measuring it up for its new home until late tomorrow (I have to work!!). However, for those who are doing the Focus II set-up with the ES pipe, that is one of the first things I will be doing because I want to get that pipe channel modified right off the bat so that I will know what space I'll have to work with inside the fuse.
I hope Santa is as good to you as he has been to me.
And thanks, Todd, for making a great product and getting it out to us!
Merry Christmas to you and to all
MattK
12-25-2009, 06:54 AM
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RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
It was definitely worth a little wait![sm=thumbup.gif][sm=thumbup.gif]
Recently, I was still on the fence about whether to make the soft mount or to hard mount. However, I will probably go with the soft mount (your design) for the positive benefits for airframe and servo longevity. A couple of questions on that later.
I got the Futaba 9551's (low-profile) for ailerons because of the prolonged backorder of the Hitec 7775's at Tower, and am using a couple of Hitec 5955's for elevator (DEPS) and rudder, simply because I have them. A little heavy and overkill on torque, but they center well, hold like a hydraulic jack and have no slop. Hitec 225MG for throttle.
Are you using the IBEC and a single Rx/ign battery with your new model? Most interested to hear what combo you use.
Recently, I was still on the fence about whether to make the soft mount or to hard mount. However, I will probably go with the soft mount (your design) for the positive benefits for airframe and servo longevity. A couple of questions on that later.
I got the Futaba 9551's (low-profile) for ailerons because of the prolonged backorder of the Hitec 7775's at Tower, and am using a couple of Hitec 5955's for elevator (DEPS) and rudder, simply because I have them. A little heavy and overkill on torque, but they center well, hold like a hydraulic jack and have no slop. Hitec 225MG for throttle.
Are you using the IBEC and a single Rx/ign battery with your new model? Most interested to hear what combo you use.
12-25-2009, 07:05 AM
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RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
ORIGINAL: tsyssa
Great to hear you got it there Bob...thanks!
Merry Christmas to all...and to all a good night!
Great to hear you got it there Bob...thanks!
Merry Christmas to all...and to all a good night!
Please let us know when your new IBECs are available, since that looks like the route I will be taking.
BTW, I don't know if you saw it but the NSRCA magazine K-Factor had Ed's excellent article about your engines featured prominently, so expect more than a few inquiries from pattern guys about this engine. A lot of us were just sitting around waiting for you to make these.
Have a great holiday and a happy and prosperous New Year!
12-25-2009, 01:22 PM
#172
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Thread Starter
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
ORIGINAL: cmoulder
It was definitely worth a little wait![sm=thumbup.gif][sm=thumbup.gif]
Recently, I was still on the fence about whether to make the soft mount or to hard mount. However, I will probably go with the soft mount (your design) for the positive benefits for airframe and servo longevity. A couple of questions on that later.
I got the Futaba 9551's (low-profile) for ailerons because of the prolonged backorder of the Hitec 7775's at Tower, and am using a couple of Hitec 5955's for elevator (DEPS) and rudder, simply because I have them. A little heavy and overkill on torque, but they center well, hold like a hydraulic jack and have no slop. Hitec 225MG for throttle.
Are you using the IBEC and a single Rx/ign battery with your new model? Most interested to hear what combo you use.
It was definitely worth a little wait![sm=thumbup.gif][sm=thumbup.gif]
Recently, I was still on the fence about whether to make the soft mount or to hard mount. However, I will probably go with the soft mount (your design) for the positive benefits for airframe and servo longevity. A couple of questions on that later.
I got the Futaba 9551's (low-profile) for ailerons because of the prolonged backorder of the Hitec 7775's at Tower, and am using a couple of Hitec 5955's for elevator (DEPS) and rudder, simply because I have them. A little heavy and overkill on torque, but they center well, hold like a hydraulic jack and have no slop. Hitec 225MG for throttle.
Are you using the IBEC and a single Rx/ign battery with your new model? Most interested to hear what combo you use.
I am not sure about the IBE...has not been tested yet in flight. We don't know amount of current draw and voltage drop in real conditions. I'll defer to Ed Alt for specific details. As we get more info we will detail it here.
I intend to use what many here in the NE use... a pair of Tech Aero (Ed's) voltage regulators and a pair of LiPo batteries at somewhere between 750 and 1000 mah each. The redundancy makes a lot of sense to me even though I have always used a single airborne battery in the past 30+ years.
We'll talk some more. Company just arrived
Matt
12-25-2009, 06:02 PM
#174
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RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
But when I get there, then yes, that will be the set-up. Most of the top guys here in the NE and several top competitors through out the country are using the twin regs.
MattK
12-25-2009, 07:14 PM
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RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
Matt,
Have you run the Syssa enough that you would draw a comparison between it and the Webra 160 that you are so familiar with. I hear of many that don't have much luck with the Webra or they are not will to endure the learning curve. I have 2 Webras I got in a package deal and may be interested in giving the Syssa a go.
Thanks in advance,
Rick
Have you run the Syssa enough that you would draw a comparison between it and the Webra 160 that you are so familiar with. I hear of many that don't have much luck with the Webra or they are not will to endure the learning curve. I have 2 Webras I got in a package deal and may be interested in giving the Syssa a go.
Thanks in advance,
Rick