I have finally made the switch from 72 to 2.4 using the Hobbico JM912 FASST JR Module and my 10x radio with Futaba receivers. I have about 10 flights on it with no problems. If you are looking for a cheap transition to 2.4 with frequency hopping and you like your JR radio I highly recommend this solution. I may even buy another 10x radio as a backup.

I was thinking about buying one of these. I have heard horror stories about the JR 2.4 module and Spektrum receivers. One guy at the club told me he lost 2 planes due to the JR module. Is everything still working ok?
Red.

I've got it in my pattern plane and everything is working fine.

I love the JR transmitters but I'm sold on the FASST system. I've heard Spetrum may be working on their own FASST system. I've heard that JR uses FASST in all other counties but the US. I will buy a new JR radio when JR switches to FASST. I also heard that alot of these modules were sold at this years Joe Nall.

Give it a try.

Same as you I LOVE my 10x. I think I will 3 pay it through Tower and give it a try.
Thanks.
Red

I'm not sure what horror stories people are spreading around, DSM is bulletproof.

FASST isn't even real FHSS, so I don't know what the big advantage of it would be. You're still limited to a small handful of frequencies.

JR uses DSMJ in Japan which is a FHSS system but everywhere else in the world JR is DSM/Spektrum compatible. I'm using Futaba FASST but I've never heard of problems with Spektrum DSM.

I was torn between the FASST Module and the Spektrum for my 10x. I wound up going for the Spektrum last November because my investigation into the JM912 in the radios forum turned up nothing. I guess it was too new back then. I was really annoyed that it took almost two months to get the Spektrum module. Several phone calls to Horizon finally got an answer. The order was delayed due to problems that produced those horror stories you heard. I placed my order during a major redesign. I was told that there was a major firmware change, as well as elimination of a little cable from the module that needed to be plugged into the Tx. I have had no problems so far. I was steering toward the JM912 because the Futaba receivers are more economical then the JR, but the Spektrum receivers are cost competitive with the Futaba. What finally sold me was that the Spektrum module is made by the manufacturer of the Tx.

Ryan - hope you are doing well these days. Fly*ng G*ants has covered a lot of the 'Joe-Nall' problems with Spectrum over the last two Joe Nall events. Also, there was some EFEST row as well with the equipment. Acknowledging these mysterious events, JR/Spectrum produced a shirt for this Joe Nall that said something like, ".... I used DSM at Joe Nall 2010 and survived." One of the JR Heli pilots was wearing this shirt at the Huntsville contest.

Thanks,
Jim W.
Team Futaba

Ryan,

I'm curious as to how FASST isn't real FHSS? The radio changes frequencies every 2 milliseconds. Yes, there are a finite number of frequencies, however by changing constantly you help reduce the possibility of failures. There is NO truely perfect system out there as it is impossible anytime you are using RF. Just ask the companies that spend billions on it for the defense industry, it is still never perfect, however by hopping you are MUCH less likely to encounter issues. An example of an issue that could happen is this. You have multiple flight lines that are separated by quite a ways. Fairly easily you could have a TX/RX at one site pick up 2 channels on the ground and a different TX/RX combo at another site pick up the same two channels. While the planes are on the ground or in front of you there likely would be no issue, but as the planes got close for example if both were at the end of their flight line making a turn, conceivably there could be issues as the planes got closer to each other. I am actually sitting next to a guy who does RF testing for a living. I let him read the descriptions of both systems and described the exact scenario I just mentioned to you and was told "ABSOLUTELY that could happen if you have a large number of people turned on at the same time." When you are stuck on a channel/channels and something interferes with it, there is nothing your system can do, but if you system can change or changes automatically to another channel you have a much better chance of saving the plane. I don't know that this is a major issue as small events with limited pilots, but at larger events it very could turn into a SERIOUS issue and apparently already has. Once again, NO system is perfect, but there are ways to make things better. I think the biggest reason DSM-J isn't being offered in the US is that the most pilots wouldn't want to sell all of their DSM stuff and start over.

People have had radio problems for years and always will. The technology is SIGNIFICANTLY better now than it was years ago, however the possibilities exist. I think the biggest problems now are user setup and lack of effort for proper setup on the rest of the equipment (ie batteries/servos/mechanical advantage). I make sure that ANYTHING I fly with failsafe capability has it setup. This way I could at least tell if the problem were a radio problem or lack of power to the system.

I personally prefer a module based system. Granted my antenna sticks out the back of the module, HOWEVER, 2 years down the road, if something newer comes out, I can buy the module setup instead of buying a new 14MZ to change to the new system.

Arch

Actually, Futaba's system is a hybrid. It isn't a FHSS as classified by the FCC. It is a channel hopping Direct Sequence system. In fact, it was tested against the DSSS specs for FCC compliance. If you get right down to it, this scheme is superior to classic FHSS and DSSS. I think you'll see others using this approach.....

Correct Steve, by FCC classification it isn't what their definition is, however it does hop which is what my point was.

Thanks,

Arch

Jim,

I'm doing well, I hope you are also. I'm actually about to start the finish work on your ML that you sold Joey Hayes. Rob did a very nice job on the airplane, I hope I can do his work justice with the finish. I understand it you're doing quite a bit of heli flying? That's something that I've always wanted to get into, but I have too many interests, and not nearly enough time or money. I handed out quite a few of those shirts, and IIRC, they just said that I used JR 2.4 at Joe Nall. There wasn't anything about surviving on there, you may be thinking of the pun commercial that Futaba put out right before Joe Nall. I can't think of many environments more demanding than my Partner for RF signal noise/blockage (three of the four antennas being under carbon fiber, and the airplane being painted in metallic and pearl colors, with metal flake in the clear, as well as the CDI module being plugged into the receiver directly), and I had very low numbers after a full flight. I had less than 25 frame losses for each antenna, no fades, no holds. I'm not using special equipment, nor am I doing anything setup wise that JR or Spektrum tells people. I honestly think that the majority of the problems people are having are setup issues, with some being the fault of the equipment, be it either by damage, or by a QC issue. I would imagine that the latter is very small, but given the large influx of newer people in the hobby, they may be using crashed receivers because they don't know to send something in, or be very hard on their transmitters and other equipment.

Unless you know the full story, you can't conclusively say that a failure was due to DSM. I know there are a lot of people that have had problems with their airplanes taking a long time to boot up at huge events like this, but honestly, I don't think you can look at me with a straight face and tell me that surprises you. There are almost 1000 registered pilots at Joe Nall and I'm sure at any given time there were several hundred transmitters on, transmitting signals. How many "channels" are there on the 2.4 GHz band, 88 total? That's asking a lot out of a frequency spectrum. I also don't want to sound like an elitist, but tell me how many pattern guys or IMAC guys have you seen that have had problems with JR's equipment? How many of us had problems with Futaba's heat issue? Archie, you were living in north Mexico at the time, and I bet you didn't have the first problem did you? Given the fact that most of the people at SEFF, Joe Nall, and E-Fest are stick bangers that would plant airplanes into the ground whether they were on 72 or 2.4, and don't take the time to set airplanes up properly, I stand by my statement that it's largely setup issues. Very few crashes that I have heard about or had people come up to me at the JR tent at Joe Nall and describe to me couldn't be traced back to an error. There were very few that that had me, and others puzzled, and the people were offered to send their equipment in for a full diagnostic check.

Archie,

Steve told what I had read. I had always thought it was a true FHSS system, but someone posted a link to the FCC paperwork detailing it, and shows how it operates. I think Hitec has a true FHSS system, that hops about all frequencies, regardless of their strength. They both do the job well. There are some things that Futaba has with their 2.4 systems that I like, but it wouldn't be enough for me to want to use their module. I guess it just seems fundamentally wrong to use one brand's transmitter, and another brand's receiver. I never said that it didn't hop. I think you hit the nail on the head regarding the DSM-J issue, but remember, it's only in use in Japan because FHSS requires a lot less transmitting power than DSM does, and it goes against their country's regulations. Also, JR and Spektrum have invested a lot of money developing (and patenting) DSSS products, and it would not be a wise business move for them to totally abandon their business plan. The number of people they would gain from switching over from Futaba or other brands would be neglegable, to non-existant, IMO. You also stated that no system is perfect, I have to agree with that. There is nothing wrong with Futaba's system at all, consequently there is anything fundamentally wrong with DSM either. It's all in what you're accustomed to, and what you've invested yourself in.

I don't mean to pick fights. I'm glad that the (I'm hesitant to use the word) opposition to me in this thread have been Jim and Arch, and there has been intelligent discourse as a result. If anyone wants to talk to me directly, PM me and I'll give you my phone number. I would be more than happy to help anyone if they are having an issue with JR or Spektrum's equipment.

Hi Ryan. Thank you for your well written note above. - that was a very fine ML airframe but its not in the cards for two IMAC planes at the moment. The wings are exceptionally done (cored out then reinforced with CF stripping). There is zero spool up time in snaps - when you hit the corners on snap condition it just about instantly starts and stops when you need it too. Glad to see the Joey is moving towards getting it ready to fly so quickly and in your hands. The precision heli stuff has been really eye opening and fun, and very difficult to learn. Heli's are a science to say the least. In every aspect it has made me feel like a newbie again. Radio setup, servos, measuring of all types, takes on a new meaning with a preision machine. I'm using JR Vibe (3D and a SG) for the task. At the Andersonville, GA pattern contest I flew a few flights at dusk Saturday night. I don't think I overly impressed anyone but I can assure you - if the heli wasn't moving during the hovering maneuvers - that is by purpose . I am in Class I and never flew a heli until the end of last summer. Overall, heli flying is as strong of R/C mental training as I've seen yet. You have to be very focused as it is "game-time" from the moment you put the starter into the hex drive. You can literally crash a heli and cause $100's in damage without ever taking off (... if you have a hot-start... don't ask me how I know

For the 2.4 stuff, it is a matter of personal taste as both systems are obviously working. I waited a while to move to 2.4. Clearly this is the direction the hobby is going though and after making the conversion I'm glad I did. If someone choses to utilize Futaba gear, you have the Futaba corporation's Industrial & Hobby radio control divisions driving product development through a whole variety of customer applications, which I think delivers quite a professional solution for our needs.

Thanks,
Jim

Ryan,

You are correct, I never suffered any of the heat issues. I think most of the heat issues were related to poor setups, and having a servo or two binding. As I said in my post, all systems have problems, and many more so are due to pilot/user error than equipment failure. They both work. I have however seen a couple of issues with JR stuff, nothing major, but going into fail safe for a split second. I actually had it happen about 3 weeks ago with a new 9505 system when I was test flying a guys airplane. We never changed anything and he has never had another problem. They both have had their issues, but you are right they both seem to work. The Airtronics and Hitec stuff also work well. Bottom line is if someone is happy with their stuff, then there is no reason to change. I've been happy with Futaba for a lot of years, and that includes a lot of years prior to wearing an orange shirt. By the way, I love the new smurf blue shirts

Arch

I started this thread because I knew there were still many JR folks out there who were hesitant to make the switch to DSM. The Hobbico module allows me to bide my time to see if JR or Spekrum decide to offer frequency hopping in the future. No offense, but I don't pay much attention to company reps when they are recommending products. I do however seek company reps out when I need help using their equipment. In the past, Arch has been very helpful with my YS engines and Troy Newman and Dave Lockhart have been very helpful with programming my 10X radio. I do believe JR has a better line of transmitters. I do believe that FASST is better than DSM because every other manufacturer is using frequency hopping. I do know pattern flyers who have had to move/add satellite receivers in order to eliminate lockouts. I'm unaware of any frequency hopping users having these type of issues. That is why I won't buy a JR 2.4 system until they switch to frequency hopping.

Thanks

Ron,

Thank you for your reply. It's your decision, and certainly whatever makes you happy, go for it. I do have a couple of things to reply to your response. First, Spektrum holds a patent for the use of DSSS for the purposes of model use. Other companies couldn't utilize that system because it's patented, so to say everyone else is using FHSS, or some variant of it, doesn't hold much water. Secondly, how many times in the past have pattern flyers, or anybody for that matter had to move their antenna for 72 MHz? At least JR's data logger allows you to optimize your setup. I would much rather have tools that allowed me to get the best possible signal, than just guess.

And Archie, the smurf shirts attract the ladies (Morgan likes them). BTW, have Tara and the kids made the big move yet?

Actually, they don't hold a patent for the use of DSSS for the purposes of model use. In a nutshell, the patent is for the use of a spread spectrum modulated digital rf link to send signals to at least two receivers. The transmitter is capable of sending out at least two signals and each receiver is capable of receiving a single signal. So, anybody can make a DSSS RC system, FHSS RC system or a hybrid system.

What is claimed is:

1. A radio control system for controlling a radio controlled device; comprising: a controller, said controller including a transmitter module; and a radio controlled device, said radio controlled device including at least one motor to allow movement of said radio controlled device and a receiver module, wherein a control instruction regarding operation of said at least one motor from said controller is sent via a spread spectrum modulated digital radio frequency link; said transmitter module of said controller being suitable for transmitting at least two discrete signals via a spread spectrum modulated digital radio link and said receiver module including at least two receivers whereby each receiver of said at least two receivers receives a signal of said spread spectrum digital link.

2. The system as claimed in claim 1, wherein said transmitter module is suitable for transmitting different frequency signals for said at least two discrete signals of said spread spectrum modulated digital radio link.

3. The system as claimed in claim 1, wherein said transmitter module is suitable for transmitting at least two discrete signals of said spread spectrum modulated digital radio link via at least two transmission diversity techniques.

4. The system as claimed in claim 3, wherein said at least two transmission diversity techniques include frequency diversity, path diversity and time diversity.

5. The system as claimed in claim 3, wherein said at least two transmission diversity techniques include antenna diversity and polarization diversity.

I stand corrected. My apologies everyone.

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><o><span style="font-family: Arial"><span style=""><span style="font-size: medium"><span style="">I also have made the switch to the JM912 FASST 2.4GHz JR Module for my JR radios.
I did originally try the Spektrum, but have decided to go this route.
I haven&rsquo;t owned anything FUTABA since my FP-7FG series radio.
Not one glitch or problem from the start! The Spektrum was another story.</span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o></o></span></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"><o><span style="font-size: medium"><font face="Verdana"></font></span><span id="1276999082082E" style="display: none"></span></o></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">&ldquo;What finally sold me was that the Spektrum module is made by the manufacturer of the Tx.&rdquo; </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-size: 14pt; color: black; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-family: Arial"><span style=""><span style=""><span style=""><span style=""><span style="font-size: medium"><span style=""><span style="color: black; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">I&rsquo;m pretty sure that Spektrum and <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">JR[/b] are two different manufacturers, but both are distributed by Horizon Hobby.
I don&rsquo;t see any 2.4 modules that say </span><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><span style="color: black; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">JR </span>[/b]<span style="color: black; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">on them.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><o></o></span></p>

Spektrum is owned by Horizon Hobby. The RF decks and antennas in American (I know for sure, I think European transmitters are the same) JR radios are made by Spektrum.

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-size: small">Since you opened the door on this; what are you stating?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"><o><font face="Verdana"></font></o></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes"></span>&ldquo;JR radios are made by Spektrum&rdquo;.<o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-size: small"><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">This is <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">JR<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>[/b]</span></span><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">http://www.jrpropo.co.jp/</span></span><span style="font-size: small"><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"> <span style="mso-spacerun: yes"></span>I follow what <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">JR [/b]is doing not what a distributor does. I think I can see marketing strategies.</span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-size: small"><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><o></o></span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-size: small"><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">The way I see it, Spektrum/Horizon is sharing their 2.4 RF technology with JR and in turn Spektum got access to JR style tx&rsquo;s for their own line.</span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-size: small"><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><o></o></span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-size: small"><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">I&rsquo;ll continue to fly <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">JR , [/b]Been flying <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">JR [/b]since<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"> [/b]the<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"> Circus Circus [/b]days<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">. [/b]I&rsquo;ll wait to get my </span></span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; mso-fareast-language: JA"><span style="font-size: small">DSX11 DSMJ2.4GHz dedicated transmitter (built-in type)</span></span><span style="font-size: small"><span style="color: #333333; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; mso-fareast-language: JA"> from overseas.</span></span><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><o></o></span>[/b]</p>

Paul,

You split my sentence up and took it out of context. Remove the parenthesis where I was trying to clarify, and the sentence reads, the RF decks and antennas on American JR radios are made by Spektrum. The rest of the radio is made by JR Japan. The programming on US versions of the radio is done in house by Horizon's electrical engineers.