Beat On 50 build
11-25-2010 | 04:34 PM
#26
RE: Beat On 50 build
ORIGINAL: winglift
Wow! I am not familiar with aileron reversal. What causes it?
ORIGINAL: kellys1729
Hi
I have an EZ Beaton which I have had for a number of years, it was fitted with an Irvine 53, I thought of putting in retracts but to help keep the weight down I fitted a home made carbon under cart It flyes very well and I am sure it can teach you a lot. But a word of warning watch your slow speed as it does have a habbit of aileron reversal (I found out this the hard way is their any other) This happend when I was flying dead stick comeing in to land at height This reversal also happend to a friend of mine who is very experianced and competes in aerobatics, but he just told me thay it had some unusual flying charetistics As far as the YS goes this is a gret little engine but I think this will be a case of over power for this airframe.
Always fly two mistakes high
Hi
I have an EZ Beaton which I have had for a number of years, it was fitted with an Irvine 53, I thought of putting in retracts but to help keep the weight down I fitted a home made carbon under cart It flyes very well and I am sure it can teach you a lot. But a word of warning watch your slow speed as it does have a habbit of aileron reversal (I found out this the hard way is their any other) This happend when I was flying dead stick comeing in to land at height This reversal also happend to a friend of mine who is very experianced and competes in aerobatics, but he just told me thay it had some unusual flying charetistics As far as the YS goes this is a gret little engine but I think this will be a case of over power for this airframe.
Always fly two mistakes high
Probably what happens is that at low speed the aileron causes the wing to stall when used to a certain angle, toward max deflection.
The stick is moved to the right, left wing up, the left aileron goes down to raise the wing, the wing exceeds critical angle of attack and falls through fully stalled, the other wing is still flying by virtue of the aileron being up and effectively giving it a bunch if wash-out, and it looks like "aileron reversal".
My take, a lot of airplanes will do this at extremes. This model being small and heavily wing loaded makes it a good candidate.
Chris...
(I edited this because of a fundamental error in that I referred to the wing with the up aileron having wash-in. This is in eror, late night or something. Sorry if it led to any confusion.)
11-26-2010 | 06:52 AM
#27
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From: CramlingtonUnited Kingdom, UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Beat On 50 build
Hi Winglift
The aileron reversal is the only traite that this plane has,I have never encounterd this with any other model I have, mine has been flown quite extensivly so I can tell you this for certain. As to what causes it I am not 100% sure but speaking to another flying friend of mine who works in the full size industry he sugested that it might be a case of insuficant fin height? as it would have been quite difficult to alter this and by how much you would have to increse this by I dont know ( perhaps some one with aerodynamic knowledge can explain why this happens) I have just lived with it. This traite only will occur at a very low spead when turning so do not worry to much. With the YS instalation I would recomend you use abeam mount as this will help with the vibraton. My current plane is an MK Synergy about the same size as the Beat On this is fitted with a Ys 63S and a Hatory pipe( 631 short I think) with a fixed header this sounds just like it's bigger brothers and is very quiet and is great flyer with no bad habits
Always fly two mistakes high
Kelvyn
The aileron reversal is the only traite that this plane has,I have never encounterd this with any other model I have, mine has been flown quite extensivly so I can tell you this for certain. As to what causes it I am not 100% sure but speaking to another flying friend of mine who works in the full size industry he sugested that it might be a case of insuficant fin height? as it would have been quite difficult to alter this and by how much you would have to increse this by I dont know ( perhaps some one with aerodynamic knowledge can explain why this happens) I have just lived with it. This traite only will occur at a very low spead when turning so do not worry to much. With the YS instalation I would recomend you use abeam mount as this will help with the vibraton. My current plane is an MK Synergy about the same size as the Beat On this is fitted with a Ys 63S and a Hatory pipe( 631 short I think) with a fixed header this sounds just like it's bigger brothers and is very quiet and is great flyer with no bad habits
Always fly two mistakes high
Kelvyn
11-26-2010 | 10:38 AM
#28
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From: Worthington,
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RE: Beat On 50 build
ORIGINAL: kellys1729
Hi Winglift
The aileron reversal is the only traite that this plane has,I have never encounterd this with any other model I have, mine has been flown quite extensivly so I can tell you this for certain. As to what causes it I am not 100% sure but speaking to another flying friend of mine who works in the full size industry he sugested that it might be a case of insuficant fin height? as it would have been quite difficult to alter this and by how much you would have to increse this by I dont know ( perhaps some one with aerodynamic knowledge can explain why this happens) I have just lived with it. This traite only will occur at a very low spead when turning so do not worry to much. With the YS instalation I would recomend you use abeam mount as this will help with the vibraton. My current plane is an MK Synergy about the same size as the Beat On this is fitted with a Ys 63S and a Hatory pipe( 631 short I think) with a fixed header this sounds just like it's bigger brothers and is very quiet and is great flyer with no bad habits
Always fly two mistakes high
Kelvyn
Hi Winglift
The aileron reversal is the only traite that this plane has,I have never encounterd this with any other model I have, mine has been flown quite extensivly so I can tell you this for certain. As to what causes it I am not 100% sure but speaking to another flying friend of mine who works in the full size industry he sugested that it might be a case of insuficant fin height? as it would have been quite difficult to alter this and by how much you would have to increse this by I dont know ( perhaps some one with aerodynamic knowledge can explain why this happens) I have just lived with it. This traite only will occur at a very low spead when turning so do not worry to much. With the YS instalation I would recomend you use abeam mount as this will help with the vibraton. My current plane is an MK Synergy about the same size as the Beat On this is fitted with a Ys 63S and a Hatory pipe( 631 short I think) with a fixed header this sounds just like it's bigger brothers and is very quiet and is great flyer with no bad habits
Always fly two mistakes high
Kelvyn
11-26-2010 | 05:20 PM
#29
Senior Member
RE: Beat On 50 build
ORIGINAL: winglift
Wow! I am not familiar with aileron reversal. What causes it? You are right about the YS and I will probably not use full throttle at all, however I already had the engine and it was about the same weight as the recommended engines. It also fits nicely in the cowling. I also thought that it would help with the extra weight of the retracts. What are some of the other unusual flying characteristics does it have?
ORIGINAL: kellys1729
Hi
I have an EZ Beaton which I have had for a number of years, it was fitted with an Irvine 53, I thought of putting in retracts but to help keep the weight down I fitted a home made carbon under cart It flyes very well and I am sure it can teach you a lot. But a word of warning watch your slow speed as it does have a habbit of aileron reversal (I found out this the hard way is their any other) This happend when I was flying dead stick comeing in to land at height This reversal also happend to a friend of mine who is very experianced and competes in aerobatics, but he just told me thay it had some unusual flying charetistics As far as the YS goes this is a gret little engine but I think this will be a case of over power for this airframe.
Always fly two mistakes high
Hi
I have an EZ Beaton which I have had for a number of years, it was fitted with an Irvine 53, I thought of putting in retracts but to help keep the weight down I fitted a home made carbon under cart It flyes very well and I am sure it can teach you a lot. But a word of warning watch your slow speed as it does have a habbit of aileron reversal (I found out this the hard way is their any other) This happend when I was flying dead stick comeing in to land at height This reversal also happend to a friend of mine who is very experianced and competes in aerobatics, but he just told me thay it had some unusual flying charetistics As far as the YS goes this is a gret little engine but I think this will be a case of over power for this airframe.
Always fly two mistakes high
Sounds like the typical tip stall caused by letting the airspeed get too low, and putting in an aileron command.
The downgoing aileron stalls the wing section ahead of it.
This creates a imbalance in lift as the other side is still lifting, and the plane rolls opposite the input command.
Happens to everyone when the speed isn't kept up..
11-26-2010 | 07:50 PM
#30
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From: Worthington,
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RE: Beat On 50 build
ORIGINAL: Tall Paul
Sounds like the typical tip stall caused by letting the airspeed get too low, and putting in an aileron command.
The downgoing aileron stalls the wing section ahead of it.
This creates a imbalance in lift as the other side is still lifting, and the plane rolls opposite the input command.
Happens to everyone when the speed isn't kept up..
Sounds like the typical tip stall caused by letting the airspeed get too low, and putting in an aileron command.
The downgoing aileron stalls the wing section ahead of it.
This creates a imbalance in lift as the other side is still lifting, and the plane rolls opposite the input command.
Happens to everyone when the speed isn't kept up..
11-27-2010 | 11:58 PM
#31
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From: Worthington,
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RE: Beat On 50 build
I apoligize for this question, but having never setup a Hatori muffler system before, can anyone tell me where to drill for the pressure tap on the muffler? There are no instructions included, however there is a nipple included. Since I will be using a YS 63S engine, I assume that I will need the tap to pressurize the tank.
11-30-2010 | 12:16 PM
#33
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From: Worthington,
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RE: Beat On 50 build
ORIGINAL: lfinney
no pressure tap.. ys engines use a internal pump system, see isnt that easy!
one less line to plumb
no pressure tap.. ys engines use a internal pump system, see isnt that easy!
one less line to plumb
12-01-2010 | 03:33 PM
#34
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RE: Beat On 50 build
Looks like you got an OS version mount?
EZ Beat On 50 originally came for OS 32/52. Then, Ok model added mount for YS 53. It was sold as YS version in the state.
I have all Beat On series excep the 2x2 version.
Original design dates back to 1990. For a 20 years old design, it is more than capable as a beginner's pattern plane.
I am not sure about aileron reversal. 90 size Beat On doesn't have it.
What servos are you going to use?
Keep the weight down. For the first flight, make sure to use forward CG.
EZ Beat On 50 originally came for OS 32/52. Then, Ok model added mount for YS 53. It was sold as YS version in the state.
I have all Beat On series excep the 2x2 version.
Original design dates back to 1990. For a 20 years old design, it is more than capable as a beginner's pattern plane.
I am not sure about aileron reversal. 90 size Beat On doesn't have it.
What servos are you going to use?
Keep the weight down. For the first flight, make sure to use forward CG.
12-02-2010 | 11:53 AM
#35
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From: Worthington,
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RE: Beat On 50 build
ORIGINAL: PatternFlyer
Looks like you got an OS version mount?
EZ Beat On 50 originally came for OS 32/52. Then, Ok model added mount for YS 53. It was sold as YS version in the state.
I have all Beat On series excep the 2x2 version.
Looks like you got an OS version mount?
EZ Beat On 50 originally came for OS 32/52. Then, Ok model added mount for YS 53. It was sold as YS version in the state.
I have all Beat On series excep the 2x2 version.
Original design dates back to 1990. For a 20 years old design, it is more than capable as a beginner's pattern plane.
I am not sure about aileron reversal. 90 size Beat On doesn't have it.
I am not sure about aileron reversal. 90 size Beat On doesn't have it.
What servos are you going to use?
Rudder: Futaba S9252
Elevator: Futaba S3152
Throttle: Hitc HS81
Keep the weight down. For the first flight, make sure to use forward CG.
12-02-2010 | 12:23 PM
#37
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RE: Beat On 50 build
Looks like your header is all the way in to the muffler.
You will want to have at least 1/8" space between the muffler and header because of the vibration. I will try to take a picture and post here.
Start the CG around 205mm. 200 is ok too. Just don't go any shorter than 200mm for the maiden flight.
I've never had any retract failure so far. Also, exhause exiting to the side looks ugly and more clean up will be necessary.
Don't use any fuel with less than 20% nitro. 15% will not run the motor well when it is in-cowl installation and inverted.
You will want to have at least 1/8" space between the muffler and header because of the vibration. I will try to take a picture and post here.
Start the CG around 205mm. 200 is ok too. Just don't go any shorter than 200mm for the maiden flight.
I've never had any retract failure so far. Also, exhause exiting to the side looks ugly and more clean up will be necessary.
Don't use any fuel with less than 20% nitro. 15% will not run the motor well when it is in-cowl installation and inverted.
12-03-2010 | 03:13 PM
#38
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From: Worthington,
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RE: Beat On 50 build
ORIGINAL: PatternFlyer
Looks like your header is all the way in to the muffler.
You will want to have at least 1/8'' space between the muffler and header because of the vibration. I will try to take a picture and post here.
Start the CG around 205mm. 200 is ok too. Just don't go any shorter than 200mm for the maiden flight.
I've never had any retract failure so far. Also, exhause exiting to the side looks ugly and more clean up will be necessary.
Don't use any fuel with less than 20% nitro. 15% will not run the motor well when it is in-cowl installation and inverted.
Looks like your header is all the way in to the muffler.
You will want to have at least 1/8'' space between the muffler and header because of the vibration. I will try to take a picture and post here.
Start the CG around 205mm. 200 is ok too. Just don't go any shorter than 200mm for the maiden flight.
I've never had any retract failure so far. Also, exhause exiting to the side looks ugly and more clean up will be necessary.
Don't use any fuel with less than 20% nitro. 15% will not run the motor well when it is in-cowl installation and inverted.
02-05-2011 | 12:29 PM
#39
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From: Worthington,
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RE: Beat On 50 build
The Beaton50 is complete except for setting the control surfaces and running the engine which has been sitting for over a year. The C.G. was set to about 204mm and to accomplish that I had to move the battery pack (NiMH 2700) into an area just behind the rudder servo (see photos).
I installed a remote glow plug because I thought it would be better than lifting up the model and trying to find the plug through another hole in the pan. It worked out great. I installed the Max products switch and added a LED to it so that I would be able to tell its on. The LED would draw only about 15 milliamps which is a negligible amount. I removed the back of the switch and soldered the leads to the right place. I determined the resistor required and installed the LED near the switch. With that done I have the mixture needles, remote plug, power switch and light, and fuel dots all on the same side.
There are no suggestions in the manual for the control throws, so I would welcome your suggestions. I have a Futaba 12FG and would also welcome any programming advice as well.
More photos next page.
I installed a remote glow plug because I thought it would be better than lifting up the model and trying to find the plug through another hole in the pan. It worked out great. I installed the Max products switch and added a LED to it so that I would be able to tell its on. The LED would draw only about 15 milliamps which is a negligible amount. I removed the back of the switch and soldered the leads to the right place. I determined the resistor required and installed the LED near the switch. With that done I have the mixture needles, remote plug, power switch and light, and fuel dots all on the same side.
There are no suggestions in the manual for the control throws, so I would welcome your suggestions. I have a Futaba 12FG and would also welcome any programming advice as well.
More photos next page.
02-05-2011 | 02:26 PM
#44
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From: Worthington,
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RE: Beat On 50 build
ORIGINAL: PatternFlyer
The last page of the manual should show you the control throw with CG location. (page 22)
Aileron High 11mm, 8mm on low. Expo: -15%
Elevator high 20, low 15mm Expo: -20%
Rudder 95mm high/low Expo: -40%
The last page of the manual should show you the control throw with CG location. (page 22)
Aileron High 11mm, 8mm on low. Expo: -15%
Elevator high 20, low 15mm Expo: -20%
Rudder 95mm high/low Expo: -40%
02-05-2011 | 04:28 PM
#46
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From: Worthington,
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RE: Beat On 50 build
ORIGINAL: PatternFlyer
Expo setting was on a separate paper insert that shows How to Trim the plane (almost same as in the manual, but translated in English with exponential setting aded).
Expo setting was on a separate paper insert that shows How to Trim the plane (almost same as in the manual, but translated in English with exponential setting aded).
02-05-2011 | 05:23 PM
#47
RE: Beat On 50 build
Winglift
I think you use a digital “high torque” S3152 servo for elevator (second picture post 39).
Push and pull forces in the pushrod can be (with that lever on the servo of 10 mm(?)) about 5 a 6 kgf.
With these forces the servo will rotate a few degrees around the mounting screws I am afraid, so elevator position is depended of load (aero dynamical forces). I would prefer mounding in length direction.
It’s only an advice, maybe the servo never has to do that heavy job, but even then I always mount elevator, rudder and aileron (low torque!) servo’s in length direction for better positioning of the control surfaces.
See picture.
I wish you successful flights.
Cees
I think you use a digital “high torque” S3152 servo for elevator (second picture post 39).
Push and pull forces in the pushrod can be (with that lever on the servo of 10 mm(?)) about 5 a 6 kgf.
With these forces the servo will rotate a few degrees around the mounting screws I am afraid, so elevator position is depended of load (aero dynamical forces). I would prefer mounding in length direction.
It’s only an advice, maybe the servo never has to do that heavy job, but even then I always mount elevator, rudder and aileron (low torque!) servo’s in length direction for better positioning of the control surfaces.
See picture.
I wish you successful flights.
Cees
02-06-2011 | 09:26 AM
#48
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From: Worthington,
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RE: Beat On 50 build
ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer
Winglift
I think you use a digital “high torque” S3152 servo for elevator (second picture post 39).
Push and pull forces in the pushrod can be (with that lever on the servo of 10 mm(?)) about 5 a 6 kgf.
With these forces the servo will rotate a few degrees around the mounting screws I am afraid, so elevator position is depended of load (aero dynamical forces). I would prefer mounding in length direction.
It’s only an advice, maybe the servo never has to do that heavy job, but even then I always mount elevator, rudder and aileron (low torque!) servo’s in length direction for better positioning of the control surfaces.
See picture.
I wish you successful flights.
Cees
Winglift
I think you use a digital “high torque” S3152 servo for elevator (second picture post 39).
Push and pull forces in the pushrod can be (with that lever on the servo of 10 mm(?)) about 5 a 6 kgf.
With these forces the servo will rotate a few degrees around the mounting screws I am afraid, so elevator position is depended of load (aero dynamical forces). I would prefer mounding in length direction.
It’s only an advice, maybe the servo never has to do that heavy job, but even then I always mount elevator, rudder and aileron (low torque!) servo’s in length direction for better positioning of the control surfaces.
See picture.
I wish you successful flights.
Cees
02-06-2011 | 09:50 AM
#49
RE: Beat On 50 build
Hallo winglift,
It was just a note.
Normally a flexible rubber mounting reduces the vibrations, so the servo has to be free mounted, and not touching the servo bay only the screws and rubber.
In that case a lengthwise position is always the best (also for hysterese in the mounting position!), but I also think the forces arn't too much in your situation, so I think it is all oké.
Maybe other people do have their opinion, I do not know this plane in detail!!!
Keep in mind, when you fly the plane and have the re-trim level many times, to look again at this subject!
Cees
It was just a note.
Normally a flexible rubber mounting reduces the vibrations, so the servo has to be free mounted, and not touching the servo bay only the screws and rubber.
In that case a lengthwise position is always the best (also for hysterese in the mounting position!), but I also think the forces arn't too much in your situation, so I think it is all oké.
Maybe other people do have their opinion, I do not know this plane in detail!!!
Keep in mind, when you fly the plane and have the re-trim level many times, to look again at this subject!
Cees
02-06-2011 | 10:20 AM
#50
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From: Worthington,
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RE: Beat On 50 build
ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer
Hallo winglift,
It was just a note.
Normally a flexible rubber mounting reduces the vibrations, so the servo has to be free mounted, and not touching the servo bay only the screws and rubber.
In that case a lengthwise position is always the best (also for hysterese in the mounting position!), but I also think the forces arn't too much in your situation, so I think it is all oké.
Maybe other people do have their opinion, I do not know this plane in detail!!!
Keep in mind, when you fly the plane and have the re-trim level many times, to look again at this subject!
Cees
Hallo winglift,
It was just a note.
Normally a flexible rubber mounting reduces the vibrations, so the servo has to be free mounted, and not touching the servo bay only the screws and rubber.
In that case a lengthwise position is always the best (also for hysterese in the mounting position!), but I also think the forces arn't too much in your situation, so I think it is all oké.
Maybe other people do have their opinion, I do not know this plane in detail!!!
Keep in mind, when you fly the plane and have the re-trim level many times, to look again at this subject!
Cees
