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As Bo said, every builder can make his own improvements if he thinks it is necessary. But before extending the secondary spar and wingtube please analyze the examples below and compare them to the Vortex wing. Both are top, proven designs, already on the market for a couple of years.
The first image represents the complete wing structure of the Naruke Ascent monoplane right before adding the balsa sheeting. Here are the main differences to the Vortex wing: - Ascent doesn't have a secondary spar to reinforce the wingtube, it only has 2 stringers not connected between them or to the wingtube. Vortex has 2 stringers at the top and bottom of the wingtube and 6mm balsa shear web in between which creates a strong secondary spar; - Ascent wing root rib is made of balsa, the one on the Vortex is made of 3mm liteply; - Ascent root rib has only a plywood roundel as reinforcement, while the Vortex has a doubler that connects it to the top and bottom of secondary spar; - There is only one other rib doubler on the Ascent (near the wingtube end). All 4 ribs on the Vortex have plywood doublers. The second image shows the wing structure of the Neo Stage which is also sold as a kit in Japan. The structure design looks similar to the Ascent. There are probably dozens of these models already flying in the world, so the structure is obviously strong enough for F3A flying. I am only trying to say that the Vortex wing is overbuilt by comparison, so please make sure you are not trying to solve a "problem" that doesn't exist. I would strongly advise against cutting into the main spar to make room for the wingtube in an attempt to join the 2 spars. This would create a weak point in the main spar which can affect the wing structure. https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...820f79f1bd.jpg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...478de7777a.jpg |
Are those (the Ascent and the Neo Stage) your builds, Alex? Very nice. How do they fly?
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Originally Posted by flywilly
(Post 12549882)
Are those (the Ascent and the Neo Stage) your builds, Alex? Very nice. How do they fly?
https://www.facebook.com/ascent.monoplan.ep/ |
Hello Alex
No problem with yours wings. Mine have hundreds flights and snaps, plane is equiped with Yamada. Picture shows wing before balsa 2 mm light sheeting. frame 1 and 5 are in light plywood. Flexural strength is given by the carbon tube and not by sleeve in the wing. So it is no necessary to reinforce by adding balsa beam. Claudeclaude https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...4e367d9949.jpg |
Thank you for the image and details Claude. Most of the strength comes from the balsa sheeting anyway; for example a wing made of foam and balsa doesn't have any spars. If we isolate the foam core its strength is almost 0 against the bending forces.
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Hello Alex
Friend of mine Sebastien makes wings more simple and lighter than mine on his own plane Excellium without any issue. First pic shows wing before sheeting. claude https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...ae6c0632ad.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...70df842d8e.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...d3e668cedc.jpg |
Thank you Claude. I think we now have many examples proving that the wing is strong enough as it is and doesn't need any modifications.
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Hi Alex,
my intention was not to criticize your build, on the contrary. Owesome build, and shows some character. You are just fine with your wings. Structurally there are some principles that will guide building strong and light. I will write more on my thougths on this when I have more time. Actually Sebastien's wing is stronger than it looks at the first glance. That is briliant. |
No worries Ini, obviously there are many ways to design a wing structure and we all have our own ideas. Maybe we can discuss different solutions and building techniques in a new thread to keep this one focused on the Vortex assembly process.
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Looks great!
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HI Alex
I just came across this build thread, all I can say is Amazing!!! You have done some fantastic work here! I would love to build one of these airplanes. As I was scrolling through I saw there seemed to be someone working on a cowl/canopy and the laser cut parts. Is there some place I can buy the laser cut parts? Look forward to your rely. Henry Piorun |
Don Carlson (at [email protected]) is planning to kit the Vortex. He has been working on it for a while (just after the thread started); so he may be close to production.
Fantastic build, isn't it!! |
Thank you, I just sent him an email. I can't believe how excited I am about this airplane and the thought of building it!
Yes it is fantastic, Alex has done an amazing job of designing and building, very cool! |
Originally Posted by HPiorun
(Post 12550761)
HI Alex
I just came across this build thread, all I can say is Amazing!!! You have done some fantastic work here! I would love to build one of these airplanes. As I was scrolling through I saw there seemed to be someone working on a cowl/canopy and the laser cut parts. Is there some place I can buy the laser cut parts? Look forward to your rely. Henry Piorun Thank you for the kind words, it is great to have such an accomplished builder and pilot interested in my design. Initially there were plans to have the composite parts manufactured by Aviaform in South Africa. They built a set of molds but many people had issues contacting them or placing an order. They are shifting their focus on large scale production and they have very little time left for small orders like the Vortex parts. I've been in contact with Don Carlson and he plans to build his own molds and make the model available in kit form. He will probably post a message here when the parts will be available. |
Hi,
MBS RC Models here in Sweden has cut a Vortex lasercut kit for one builder here. I have seen on a forum here in my country that the builder first ordered light balsa sheets from them then clued some of the sheets together so it was total 200 mm (20 cm) width of the balsa sheets, each sheet has 100 mm (10 cm) width before gluing. I think the length if those balsa sheets was 500 mm (50 cm) also (just cut the 1000 mm/100 cm balsasheets in half). He then sent in the 200 mm wide balsa sheets (500 x 200 mm), total 30 sheets according to his build thread, to MBS RC Models and had the balsa parts cut. He received the laserkit and is building the Vortex now. You obviously need more balsa and ply for the lasercutting but probably MBS RC Models know all about this since they have already cut one Vortex kit for this builder. They probably have a list of balsa and ply needed for the whole lasercut project. I do not know if You can see his just started build via the link below (translated from Swedish to English in Google translator): https://translate.google.com/transla...-en-F3A-modell If You want to click on images in the thread to enlarge them You have to do that in the untranslated version since Google translator can not display the images enlarged: Bygget av Vortex en F3A modell /Bo |
Yes I have the kits that include all the laser cut balsa and ply parts. plus all the other sticks, blocks, sheeting, to complete the model. It also has the cowl, canopy, landing gear, wing and stab tubes, and other small Carbon fiber parts, A full sized plan is being worked on also.
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Originally Posted by frequent flyer
(Post 12550887)
Yes I have the kits that include all the laser cut balsa and ply parts. plus all the other sticks, blocks, sheeting, to complete the model. It also has the cowl, canopy, landing gear, wing and stab tubes, and other small Carbon fiber parts, A full sized plan is being worked on also.
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Originally Posted by Alex Voicu
(Post 12550822)
Hi Henry,
Thank you for the kind words, it is great to have such an accomplished builder and pilot interested in my design. Initially there were plans to have the composite parts manufactured by Aviaform in South Africa. They built a set of molds but many people had issues contacting them or placing an order. They are shifting their focus on large scale production and they have very little time left for small orders like the Vortex parts. I've been in contact with Don Carlson and he plans to build his own molds and make the model available in kit form. He will probably post a message here when the parts will be available. |
That's great Henry, i followed your Fantasista build on Facebook and i can't wait to see what you can do with a Vortex kit !
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Wing assembly part 4
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Looks great!...can't wait to start on mine, lol.
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Vortex......
Hey Alex. You're workmanship continues to impress. Those parts look perfect. I recall possibly back in post #44, you listed your preferred adhesives for the fuse build, do you mind doing the same for the wings? With Don getting closer, it looks like time to stock up on all the glues and hardware. Also, with the weights you posted and the fact that you only used AAA grade wood, how do you think the finished weight is looking? Thanks, Ted.
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Thanks a lot, i am glad you like it. The wings and stabs came out very nice and smooth indeed, there is no need for filler anywhere. The fuselage needs a little here and there, because the sheeting is made of separate pieces.
The structure of the wings and stabs is mainly assembled with CA, including the stringers for the main and secondary spars. The plywood rib doublers were glued to the ribs with epoxy, as was the wingtube sleeve. The shear web parts of the main spar were glued with aliphatic resin, and the ones for the secondary spar with polyurethane glue (similar to Gorilla glue). Polyurethane is also used for attaching the balsa sheeting, leading edges, trailing edges and wingtips. The weight looks good so far; it is 100g lighter than my Radiance which was under 5kg, while the fuselage is 140mm taller. I'm not sure how much glassing and painting the fuselage would weight, but i plan to go with film covering since i don't have the room and tools for painting. Weights so far: Fuselage 900g Wings 265g each Stabs 70g each Rudder 62g Please let me know if i forgot anything. |
Airframe assembly
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...ddf64d3e05.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...94141e2748.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...807447a406.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...85fe327ca5.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...6ac0f1c7fd.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...a69ffee7a0.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...974594fca0.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...cc8ecad827.jpg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...ae6c0e2bb4.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...007effd157.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...18e8424589.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...477cf369bb.jpg |
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