RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
 

I assume that this hole is the center of the firewall? It LOOKS to be but before I use it I just wanted to be sure this is it... Remember Im a not a veteran builder so I will be asking some dumb questions...

RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
 

Im going to defer to Bills Thread over in the electric forum. There is a lot of great information, and questions being answered that are very beneficial not only to the electric Genesis build but to building a pattern plane in general. I will post a little about the engine installation when the time comes but you are wasting your time here;) Check it out here>>> [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3508665/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm]Genesis Build[/link]

RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
 

That's Curious Mike......I dont know if that's the center or not.......There's 2 holes in mine, but they look rather random. I've also got a hole in the center of my Fin post in the very back of the fuse, but I just figured that this was where the model was attached to a rod (stand) while it was pinted or something.

Hey....please dont close your thread here !!! I think there's alot of good information from both versions that could be passed on to everyone. Besides......Im a total Noob when it comes to this pattern stuff, and I have no Idea what im doing........Just ask Todd....
I know he's getting sick of me calling him !!!! :-)

Seriously.....Keep us posted on your progress.


Bill

RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
 

LOL, Im not going to close it. I just want to make sure that anyone looking here doesnt miss anything helpful and informative. I will post up if I have any useful info. I just want to make a good build and do things the right way, it doesnt matter where the info comes from.[8D]

RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
 

Bigned,
If you look at your Hyde mount it probably has a 1/4 20 (or somewhere around that size) thread in the center. On alot of installs people put an enlarged hole in the firewall, mount the engine to the mount, put a bolt through the fire wall into the mount, put a spinner on the engine, then center the spinner/engine/mount to the air frame. They then tighten down that center bolt, remove the spinner/engine. You can now mark and drill your firewall for perfect alingment. My guess from limited experience.

RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
 

A Little progress.... but I have found another pretty nasty flaw in the paint. On the right side of the fuse right above the wing there was a smudge that looked like a grease smudge that I was leaving alone until I got time to take a look. It looked like a smudge but when I took a little alcohol and wiped it the paint came right off. Now there is a feathered spot on the side of the plane about the size of a dime that has no paint on it... Great... I guess I will have to figure something out or try to put my name decal over it.

RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
 

No, the entire center of the mount has a hole about 1" or so in diameter. Your comment did give me a good idea of how to setup and center the mount and nosering however. I'll see when I get to that point and post my results.

RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
 

That is very interesting, every Hyde mount I have used has had the center threads. I wonder if they are really being made my Merle Hyde of if they are being built else where with his permission.

RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
 

If you're talking about the ARA mount, it does have a large lightening hole in the center. All of them do. Like a big ring.

The ARI mounts have the centering hole, as well as most of the older ones.

-Mike

RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
 

That could explain it, I have had a new "A" mount, ARIA, ARI, and an older AR mount. They all had the threaded hole in the center.

RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
 

Mine is an AR mount specifically made for the 160DZ. Its already drilled and tapped for the motor and everything. I will take a picture tomorrow when I get home.

RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
 

Mike:

The paint on the fuse seems to be a prevalent issue with the plane. I know Jim S. has done quite a bit of touch up and has had paint come off fairly easily. Wonder if a clear coat is in order or will it add too much weight?

Mike

RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
 

I think I am going to get with Buddy and see if I can sweet talk him into shooting a coat of polyurethane clear coat over the bottom colored section up to the white. Hes pretty good with a paint gun so I think he can put it on really light and get good coverage. Todd he was able to keep the paint on but you have to be meticulous about wiping the plane down and not letting any fuel sit on the plane.

RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
 

OK guys,

I have a good way to install the Hyde Mount in a firewall that is already installed. Its pretty simple and only requires one special tool. A 12" long 1/8" drill bit.

I will work on writting something up on it. Again its pretty simple but it will take me a couple of days to get it all written up. We are doing this on the Pinnacle, and I have done it on my buddy's Genesis also.

I have some pics. Will write it up and post by the end of the weekend.

Same as the DEPS install for the guys with painted fuses.

Troy

Troy

RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
 

OK, my 1st mistake, I should have waited for Troys new writeups.... I used this picture on the left from the central hobbies website installation guide as a reference for the location of the exit holes for my DEPS system. A couple of problems with it. Due to the location of the former in the Genesis, its too far back for the pushrod to make the curve without binding. I did some nifty trimming and fitting and finally got it about as free as the pushrods can possibly move but I just dont feel good about the ladder wrapping around the former and not being able to get any support for it back there behind the former other than some epoxy on the pushrod tubing hanging slightly out the exit hole.

Second. Im not sure what the deal is but I wrapped the thread around the tube as carefully as I possibly could and the pushrod is binding in the tube a little even while the ladder is straight and sitting on the table. Im not sure if the CA is shrinking the tube or what but its definitely not free. I believe a 9151 will be able to move the surfaces fine as it is but there will definitely be a little bit of work involved in overcoming some friction for the servo thats going to result in some current drain and response loss.. Id say its freedom of movement is about 85% of what it was when I pulled the tube and pushrod out of the package. Mounted in the plane as is the freedom of movement probably drops to about 75% of what it was when totally free straight out of the package.




NOW, in the picture in the middle is from the response from Troy in the electric Genesis thread where the pushrod exits just in front of the former which is about 3" further forward than where I am at currently, which gives you a straight shot to the control horn with virtually no curve to it. Im thinking that my best solution is to just cover the exit holes I cut with some white vinyl and starting all over with the exit holes at the former. See the pic on the far right. I will set it up like the pic in the middle with more pushrod exposed and traveling straight to the control horn with no curve.

Its hell to be a rookie builder....

RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
 

Mike,

What you have to remember is that each model will be different based on where the elevator servo is placed and also the location of the elevator control horns from the centerline of the model.

The far left and far right photos are from my Hydeaway. This was by no means a wide bodied aircraft. The rudder post was thin compared to new models. The result is the control horns for the elevator are further from the models centerline. Also If I remember correctly I have the elevator further rear in the fuse on the Hydeaway than I currently do in my Pinnacles. SO the result is every model will be a little different based on how you choose to do it.

RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
 

Thanks Troy, Im going to sit down tomorrow and try to see if I can figure out how to get the pushrod there in a straight shot. I will get it, I would like to get it with the holes I have already cut. I will look forward to seeing pictures if you have any of the Genesis install you are doing.

RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
 

Mike

One way to locate the pushrod exit point is with a laser level (borrow Buddy's). Install the elevator control horn and mark the servo arm height on the outside of the fuse from where it will be mounted (measure from the canopy flange). Use the laser to provide a line from the horn hole to the servo arm mark, then mark the fuse in the general area where the pushrod will exit - this is the vertical position.

Then rotate the fuse (bottom toward laser) and project the laser line from the control horn to a mark of servo arm position on the bottom of the fuse, it will cross the vertical mark at exactly the exit point.

RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
 

Thanks Earl,

I think I actually understand what you are describing. I will go to Buddys and see if I can figure it out...

RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
 

OK, I figured out what was wrong with my DEPS pushrods. All I had was a piece of 1/4" x3" wide balsa so I just cut a couple of 1/4"x1/4" strips out of that. Problem was they are not prefectly straight. Cutting it with a stright edge and a razor knife I did not get it prefectly straight and there were tiny little dips all the way down the tube. So I cut all of that loose and started over. I still cut out my own 1/4" sqare stock but I sanded it until it was arrow straight I was also VERY careful to not pull the string tight as a wrapped and I left the CF rod inside the tube while I wrapped.

The result,,,,,,,, a perfectly straight and free sliding pair of pushrods. :D

RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
 

And the final product... Bind free and pretty.

Earl your method of locating the exit holes was spot on, perfect. I didnt use a laser, I just used a straight edge and marked the intersection of the two lines exactly as you described and the pushrod hit EXACTLY at the right spot on the control horn. You are the man!;)

I'll briefly explain, I marked the approximate location in space of where the elevator pushrod will eventually intersect with the servo arm and took a measurement from the flor to this point. 1 1/4". Im not sure if I should mount the servo on its side or if I have room to cut through the pipe tunnel floor to mount a 9151, but either way the intersect point should be pretty close about 1 1/4" above the floor, directly beneath the rudder servo. Then, using the wing adjuster as a reference point I marked this spot on the outside of the fuselage . Then I used a yardstick from the hole in the control horn, to the mark on the outside of the fuse and marked where this line intersected at the front of the rear former, this is essntially the back end of the exit hole.

The hard part was getting the right angle on the tapered edges at the front and rear of the exit hole and the overall length of the exit hole just right,,, I used a rat tail file and put it into the exit hole and then just laid it flat so that it hit the front and rear of the exit and started filing. I had to fit and sand fit and sand until I was able to slide the ladder assemblies clear tubes through the holes without any binding whatsoever and I finally got it[8D].. The exit hole in the picture is the perfect length but is slightly too wide(tall), approx 1/32" but I didnt want to settle for almost perfect travel, I wanted totally free and I have it. Also the ends of the ladder assembly rails fits perfectly flush up against the rear former.

Now, I just have to put the rungs on the ladder and the supports in the fueslage without altering the angle at which the rails approach the exit holes. I tell you, this was a BIG relief for me. I was terrified of this part of the assembly.

I cant wait to do some more on it tomorrow.

RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
 

Wow !!! Awesome work Mike !!! It looks really straight !! Im dreading this part the most as well.

-Bill

RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
 

Thanks Bill,
Are you going to go with a single servo under the rudder servo?

If so the key for me was to punch the initial hole as close to the front edge of the rear former as possible and then work forward from there cutting out the slot. That is assuming that the former is in the exact same location on all of the ARFs. I actually had to file away a little of the former to get the taper angle of the exit straight in line with the control horn and servo arm without any bends. It doesnt take much to bind up the pushrods... THey really do need to be perfectly straight...


Also as I said before, it helped to have the CF rod inside the pushrod as I wrapped and wrap as loosely as I could get away with to keep the rod moving freely... Before you glue anything check the pushrods ability to slide frequently, and as you stitch make sure you arent pulling too tightly.

RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
 

Mike,

Yea Im going with a single servo as well, and the same DEPS setup as you. Maybe I could glean some measurements from you after everything is all in place. :-)

Bill

RE: Genesis ARF build, its here.
 

I would be honored to share my measurements. Truth is I didnt measure, I used my laser pointer to find the front of the former, I'll get the measurements for you tomorrow. I just stuck the pointer against the outside of the fuselage and then looked down into the fuselage for the red dot. Once I hit the right spot I marked it and found where that spot on the fuse intersected the line from the horn to the arm.

Whatever you do dont use any of the paint lines as reference. When looking from the behind the plane at the tailpost I can clearly see that the white stripe starts at a higher point on one side than the other.