RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Can you guys please show your fixing methods for the canopy and chin cowl.

Thanks
Alan

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

I test flew my new one yesterday. It's very true and neutral. At this point I'm going to either need no mixing on knife edge or at the very most 1 of 2 percent on a mix. I set the CG at 1/4 " from the leading edge of the tube. The wing has 1/2 degree of positive and the stab is at 0. The plane is equiped with a Losardo custom wing. The AUW of the wing panels is 412 grams or 14.5 oz. with the JR 9411sa servo's.
The rudder is super effective so I have to fly it awhile and get used to it. All in all a much better than average debut. Here's a few pics of it at the field. Mike

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Here is my solution. I dont think it is the only one.

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Well my Integral flies beautifully (15 flights to date), very pleased with how everything worked out.

Weighs in at 4.9kg (10.8lbs), C of G currently at 191mm from LE with wings on, seems right to me. However I had to mix out pulling to the belly in knife edge in both directions.

My timer is set to 7 minutes and I'm using about 2800ma in this time. Current draw max at 85amps, prop runs up to 5900rpm. Nothing is getting hot although the ambient temperature is cool here at present (25 degrees celcius).

It is a basic C-ARF scheme with the following:
1. Hacker C50 14XL Comp, APC 20x15e
2. Jeti Spin 99
3. JR921 Rx (2.4) controlled by the JR DSX9 Tx (same as the X9303 2.4)
4. Digi Switch
5. Hyperion 2S 800mah Rx Pack
6. Hyperion 5S 5350mah Packs, running 10S
7. Futaba BLS 451 (Rudder), 2 x Futaba 9650 (Aileron) & 2 x Hitec 5245 (Elevator)

There have been heaps of pics and details give about the Integral so I note some details and pics of components that are a little different from what I have read about. Note none of these are my ideas I just copied the best ideas that I thought others had fom around the place:
1. Molded some 50x100mm scoops in the fuze out of CF - see pics. They provide negative pressure in the fuse to assist with cooling and they look groovy!!
2. Laminated the phenolic horns with CF to make them stiffer, I really like the effect.
3. Replaced the standard landing gear with Bolly FAI Electric, I thought the standard gear was way too stiff.
4. Made the rear mount removable to facilitate servicing of the gear box.

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Did anyone install a JR 2.4GHz system in a glow version of the Integral. My first installation failed the range check with the main (921) rx monted to the front edge of the carbon servo tray and the satalite down the turtle deck. The data logger confirmed the reception from the mains was poor....I'm guessing the system really does not like carbon. I'm looking for a better place for the main rx that's convinient and does not get in the way of the fuel tank...which is another problem for 2.4Ghz.

Can someone post some pics of succesful 2.4Ghz installations?

Thanks
Colin.

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

What kind of mounts are you guys running YS's using on the Integral?

I installed a Hyde ARIA. I had a lot of problems with my YS detonating and finally traced it to a broken fuel line in the tank (darn it!) Anyway - I now have it running... but it shakes so bad below 4500 there is not enough clearance for this soft a mount. The header hits the fuse sometimes... it is really bad.

I am having so much grief with this plane let me tell you! Lots of hard lessons learned. My bad tank caused a huge backfire at 1/2 throttle which actuually broke the side of the fuse the header flange hit it so hard.

I haven't even got to fly it yet :(

Today I installed a new fuel system and it runs great from 4500 - 8500 RPM. Prop is very well balanced. Below 4500 it shakes an insane amount to the point the engine will quit/hit the fuse side etc. There is no question of even being able to run the chin cowl.

On the break in bench with a solid mount it seems just fine - no worse than any other 4-stroke.

I am starting to think in this fuse I should run a more solid mount or go with a built-in nose ring vs the beam integrated one.

Any ideas?

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

I'm running the ARA70 from Hyde with a central hobbies nose ring. Merle Hyde recommended this for the Integral. I am still running in my 170 and I can say that the mount is very smooth at every rpm. I have the idle down to 2300 after 2 tanks and it's quite smooth.

Colin

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

I use a Hyde ARA and the YS front mount, tried the ys back mount also , but didnt like it .
I also have to fasten the canopy with some tape to stop it from making noise.

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Thanks guys. For now I got the beam off my ARIA and I am fitting the Kit nose ring. I have an AR80 on the way which should work a bit better than the ARIA without the beam.

Looks to me like this will be a lot better.

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Hi there,

I used to run the ARIA mount with a YS 160DZ on an Extreme Composite OTOP with no issues at all. Now this mount has been installed on Integral with a YS 170DZ, I have not run the engine yet, but I don't think that Integral has less space in front compared to OTOP, so I believe that it will not hit the sides of the cowl. Let's see if it hits then I will probably have to remove the integrated nose ring and use a separate one like you did. What prop did you use? Can you also send a photo of your configuration?

Regards,
Nikos

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Not to be a wise guy but the OS 1.40 and 1.60 works just fine in the plane.
If you are geting that much vibration through the soft mount imagine what a firmer mount will do to the air frame.

Carl

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

The solid nose ring seems to have fixed my problems. It still vibrates but the engine does not flop all around like it did so now I can at least tune it.
I am running a APC 17x12W that is very well balanced. On the ARIA above 4500 it was very smooth - just below that it started to resonate and the engine would sway. With the integrated nose ring it can twist but it won't sway at all.

I'll snap some pics tomorrow.

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Hi Guy's,

I would be interested in seing pictures off locations of battery plate in you Integrals, both when battery is strapped in and when there is no battery.

Thanks for your help

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

crhammond,

Sounds like you may have the regulator on your YS set too rich. Even though it may
seem to be running OK when the regulator is set too rich on a DZ it will shake like crazy
at idle. Try backing the regulator setting out and see if the idle smooths out. I'm running
the ARIA mount on a 1.60 DZ with no problems.

tommy s

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

That is what I thought too but leaning it only smoothed the transition, not the idle.
With the solid nose ring it is workable now - still rough but workable. I will try leaning the regulator further today. I had it leaned about 1/4 turn. I am at about 1.5 turns on the top end (motor is new with maybe 1/2 gallon run through it since it was repaired (broke a Cam when new))

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Seeing all these Integrals up and flying, and the few left in the works, is great. I figured since I just took notes on my Worlds set-up to keep "on record" and match new one's too, I better share them so I don't get in trouble ;). These might differ from my first set-up as feels change.

Rates (expo, 14MZ): all measurements are in mm

*measured at root of elevator
Low Elv: 14 up, 15 down (-15%) - used for most all flying, snaps included
Mid Elv: 20 up and down (-45%) - not sure what I have or use this for
High Elv: 24 up and down (-55%) - used for spin entry only, not the actualy spin... and hovering when bored

*measured at top of rudder
Low Rud: 45 left and right (-30%) - used for most all flying, KE loop and snaps included (*tried the KE loop on low and liked it)
High Rud: 56 left and right (-60%) - used for high alpha KE passes

*measured at root side cut of aileron, not running differential (R- right stick movement, L- left stick movement)
Low Ail: R- 20 L- 22 (-25%) - used for really, really long slow rolls and sometimes 1 rolls circles when I remember
Mid Ail: R- 25 L- 26 (-35%) - not sure what this is for, but it's there... kinda like mid elevator (*works on Ryan's glow version for snaps)
High Ail: R- 30 L- 31 (-50%) - used for most all flying, snaps exclusively

R-A mix: 3.5%
R-E mix: 9.5%

CG is... 175mm or 6 7/8"

picture flood coming...

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Thanks Jason, can you tell me what rates you use for snaps and spins? I have my CG set more foward as I am attempting to eliminate the R to E mix. So far so good. I also have wing adjusters and the wing is set at 1/2 degree positive. Thanks for you input, Mike Mueller

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

electric canopy mounting method: Hatch latch at rear, forward facing hooks near rear base and 2 pins in the front

glow canopy mounting method: 2 carbon pins half way up the rear slope, 2 hooks midway on the base facing backwards and a 4-40 screw at the front.

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

chin set-up on the glow plane: carbon rod in front, 4-40 on each side midway back and nothing at rear (tape will get added once it's all ready to lock-up.

electric is about the same: pin(s) in nose and latch at rear and mid spreader rod just in front of the gear

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

some YS install pics

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

glow innards: 24oz Du-Bro tank, battery placement(s), throttle servo (which we'll try and move back on the new one) and Rx.

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

electric innards: 2.4 FASST Rx position, Hacker set-up, Thunder Power 10S 5000 flying position

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Thanks for the updates Jason....quite a change in CG from 205mm.

Are you still at the factory setting for wing and stab incidence?

Colin.

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

everything is stock... too lazy to change anything that works.

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

I am almost as lazy as Jason, but not quite :D I don't have his mad skillzzz, so I have to be a little more proactive in trimming.

I have pulled out probably 1.5-2 deg of downthrust and am planning on adding some more + to the wing. I think I am a little more nose heavy than J as well.

Doing this you can get rid of the KE mixing....in fact just removing the thrust and playing with CG gets rid of most of it.