Zeque Build Glow Powered...
 

Zeque build...YS DZ powered

Welcome!

I have admired the threads offered by various RCU members and thought I would offer a thread specifically discussing the installation of a YS DZ YS 1.60 or 1.70 in an Oxai Models Zeque. UAL767 has done an excellent job discussing his Zeque electric conversion.

Background- My decision to purchase the Zeque is almost solely based on my desire to put myself in the best position to reach my potential by optimizing the variables. I define the variables to be composed of three primary variables: my pilot self image, the airframe and associated mechanical components.

My pilot self image consists of the pattern or sequence and the mastery of "presenting" the sequence within my skill set or ability. Creating a positive pilot self image will depend on proper practice, coaching and burning lots of fuel (with a well trimmed and capable model). I am not as naturally gifted as many of you and in order to reach my potential will need to be more methodical to reach my potential.

The airframe and mechanical variables are met by selecting a proven design and setting it up to provide the maximum number of consistent experiences or flights. Specifically, this build will endeaver to execute as EXACTING as possible, the mechanical installation "themes" as executed by Mr. Suzuki, designer of the Zeque and Japanese F3A Team member.

So we begin with photos of Mr. Suzuki's actual model which I just received last night. The photos are courtesy of Sam Johnson, Oxai-USA, after I asked him if he could provide more detail about the location of the various conponents.

Official disclaimer: I have received no compensation, discount or other indirect compensation from Oxai-USA or Central Hobbies for this Zeque RCU build thread. I am an Official Team Fuataba member and Team YS Performance. Additionally, I have written or am scheduled to write for FLY RC Magazine product reviews which based on my specifications, have utilized products marketed by Central Hobbies, Futaba of America and YS Performance which may have been provided at a "promotional" rate. I have provided an "independent" and "impartial" opinion of my specific experiences. It should be noted that the I assume no personal or implied liability for the information contained in my digital and written information. The information provided are my opinions and in no way imply or express the opinions and or warranties of Central Hobbies, Oxai-USA, Futaba of America and YS Performance.


Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
Team YS Performance


The build begins with a specific goal: re-create the installation "themes" in these pictures:

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With all of the legal Jargan out of the way let's begin!:D

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I think he's done already and gone flying... [8D]

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Oh.

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Based on the pictures I don't know if I agree with some of his choices, but how do those japanese get their models so gosh darn clean and pretty. It amazes me every time I see it. Even more incredible up close (got to see Sean's Astral at the NATS).

Good luck on the build Rusty, it's a beautiful model. Look forward to seeing you and possibly your Zeque in Phoenix this February :D

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Let me understand something here. You mean that if I follow your build thread, implement your ideas and follow your procedures in building my own plane, then I go out and crash my plane, I can't hold you liable?? What's the world coming to???:D

p.s. what about if I cut my fingers in the prop, can I hold you liable then??

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Zeque YS DZ 1.60/1.70 build continued,

Before I get started, here are a few photos of my workshop. The shop features movable storage/bench tops, rolling audio/video carts for power tools and modular model storage. The model storage "system" is continued into the garage and the basis for my trailer allowing for simple and flexible storage and transportation.

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
Team YS Performance

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Ok, now I know what was taking time... he was cleaning up his shop!!!! Jeez Rusty... you need to make a little mess so that we know you actually use it.

:)

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Man, it's a good thing that I'm not a bitter, jealous sort of person. Because that shop could make me very bitter and jealous....:D


Mark

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Forget about the build! Let's see more of the work shop!
Greg Grigsby

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I like my stuff all scattered across my work benches, that way it is within easy reach. When I run out of room on the bench, just build a new bench. Also keeps disappearing tools to a minimum because I am the only one that can find anything. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.:D

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Zeque YS DZ 1.60/1.70 build,

Thank you for the comments regarding my shop...here are a few more photos. The space is designed to be able to build, set-up, cover and maintain multiple projects simultaneously without having to clean. Yes, EVERYONE makes fun of my desire (nothing that counseling couldn't fix...) to keep things tidy. Additionally, my 4 and 2 year old have THEIR play room next to Daddy's shop which requires everything really dangerous (everything) to be somewhat out of harms way.

Here is where I purchased the parts:

Maple table top: Ikea
Table top base cabinets: Home Depot
Rolling 4-drawer carts with work top: Ikea
Audio/Video carts with AC power and extension cord: One of the 20 office supply catalogs I see every month
Wall cabinets: Ikea
Large base cabinet with doors: Ikea
Wall shelving: The Container Store (Hella), Home Depot
Adjustable airplane stands on black rolling steel cart: J&L Power Products (based in Wisconsin) see Model Aviation Ad
Rolling steel cart with doors: Office Max
Vertical model stands: J&L Power Products
Floor paint: Home Depot
Magnetic tool holder strip on wall: Ikea
Cord reels: Sears (Where America Shops)

Trailer (Not shown): Vertical standards and shelving (Home Depot) AND custom brackets from J&L Products

Models in background: 2.6 meter Composite ARF with DA-100 and cannisters, Scandalous Biplane YS DZ.160, Merlin F3P biplane (5 oz RTF), Ikarus F3A custom (4.75 oz RTF), Ikarus Yak 55, E-Flite Yak Byp, Brio and Mini-Funtana, Bridi Dirty Birdy .60 in the bones, Sig Yak 18 in the bones (rare and special model), Kyosho Oxalys 50 with YS 63 and Hatori mini pipe, Focus II ARF (current Fly RC Magazine project), Oxai-Beryll (current Fly RC Magazine project), Focus II ARC and hard to see prize possesion... original Compensator kit that I just received!

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
Team YS Performance

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Hey Rusty,
How do I get a copy of FLY RC magazine? Or Subscribe? Will there be a regular pattern column or featured articles?
Thanks,
Will B.

PS My workshop looks like that ... after every relocation :D:D
OF course it NEVER LOOKS LIKE THAT AGAIN UNTIL WE MOVE!!

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http://flyrc.com/

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Zeque YS DZ 1.60/1.70 powered

Components and parts selections: The next series of photos are some the components that have been selected.

Radio equipment: All Futaba components

Transmitter: 12Z
Receiver: 5014 DPS
Throttle: 9650
Ailerons: 9154 aileron servo (wedge shape)
Elevator: 9151
Rudder: 9155


Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
Team YS Performance

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Zeque YS DZ 1.60/1.70 build

Engine components:

Engine: YS 1.60/1.70 DZ
Header: Hatori #822 (15 degree or 24 degree rise?) or #823 (10 degree rise?)
Pipe: Hatori #821 (comes with very nice mount although I am not using)
Pipe mount: Ishioka special (Central # 166 311 $39.87)
Header support: Ishioka special (Central #105 126 $32.95)
Needle valve extension: IM Products #05102 (Central # 166 028 $3.95)
Fuel tank: K& S 600 cc # 981-2300 special (Oxai-USA, I was afraid to ask the price?)
Fuel fittings: Tettra #4225 color tilted outlet nipple red/blue anodized aluminum (Central # 166 289)
Fuel dot: Tettra #?
Fuel line: Prather medium

Some of these parts are available at a number of quality shops around the world...(I generally just call Mandy at Central Hobbies, she knows the cool parts...)

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
Team YS Performance

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Zeque DZ 1.60/1.70 build

Engine mount

The airplane is specifically designed to use the YS vibration dampening mount. I have never used this mount and I have heard many favorable comments recognizing it does require maintenance due to the nifty little shock absorber. I have included a picture of Muggen #600 silicone shock oil, used for RC cars, as my in the field box maintenance item.

The YS mount is very light and simple to install and remove.

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
Team YS Performance

RE: Zeque Build Glow Powered...
 

Zeque YS DZ 1.60/1.70 build

How to access the glow plug in a fully enclosed motor installation?

MK of Japan has a system which uses a fuselage mounted female plug, glow plug attachment clip and male plug for the power source. Here are a few tricks Dave Guerin showed me to mount this little gem for trouble free use: It will break...so I replace the ground wire with a RC car silicone wire. The ground simply connects to one of the engine bolts. The glow plug wire will probably fail at the glow plug clip/wire joint. You can add a piece of heat shrink tubing or just replace it with a Tettra remote glow wire and clip (about $6.00 at Central Hobbies). The plastic mounting ears are prone to cracking...later I show how that is fixed as well.

Yes, it does weigh about an ounce, basically have to replace some of the key components, requires additional time to install (less than an hour) but it is very clean and cool when your done.

I use a lithium powered glow igniter which I installed SERMOS plugs to use several different glow plug clips.

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
Team YS Performance

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Zeque YS DZ 1.60/1.70 build

What power source?

I have never been an "early adopter" of battery systems. Many pilots have had and are having success using the lipo batteries to power the airborne electronics. Yes, there can be very little weight savings when one considers the voltage regulator, the extra charging equipment and fire...

I will use a 1320 mah Thunder Power two cell pack, Deans mini plugs connected to a Jaccio 6.0 volt default "on" safety switch. If the switch breaks, the system will be "on". I have a couple of the batteries so that after I fly 5 - 6 flights, I simply replace it and charge outside the model.

Dave Lockhart (fantastic precision pilot and ambassador) uses a redundant system of dual 450 mah (?) lipo packs, regulators and switches. This provides an additional layer of protection and complexity because you really need to monitor the voltage of EACH pack.


Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
Team YS Performance

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Rusty:

You got me thinking about the enclosed engine with your comments. I guess there is a choice of the remote glow driver like your using or opening up the bottom of the chin cowl/pipe tunnel/underbody apparatus for plug access.

I assume the underbody is molded balsa like the rest of the fuse, that being said I wonder if there needs to be additional sealing of the internal surface to prevent soaking up fuel and oil? Maybe a coat of thinned epoxy to insure against any pinhole leaks in the original construction? I hope others with experience will comment.

Mike Wickizer

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Man, your parts choice is impressive...

You know, I wondered where I could find some of those parts....did not think about calling Central. Do they carry the motor mount as well??

I would like to know how you plan to set up your elevator linkage. The first set of photos looks like they used a metal rod y adapter or something...

Also, check this site out http://www.tech-aero.net/ ....I especially like the dual failsafe regulators/single switch setup...

btw-your shop sucks......in a good way though...;)

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Zeque YS DZ 1.60/1.70 build

Regarding fuel proofing engine compartment, where to buy motor mount and the elevator system:

The Oxai-Models, I believe, are painted with an epoxy paint. The Zeque has a carbon fiber belly pan with what looks like a complete carbon fiber engine compartment. It appears to be finsished with clear...I will use Z-poxy finishing system to coat all of the little areas like the holes for the fuel lines...

Fuel brands, fuel proofing and protecting your model's finish. I am not a chemist yet I have found that some model fuels seem to also double as a paint remover! I will be flying Cool Power 30% Heli this year based on my ability to buy a gallon or two locally if I run out AND it has proven to be a little easier on painted finishes.

Central Hobbies or YS Performance Parts and Service (Rich Verano) carry the mounts. (I imagine others do also.)

The elevator push rod...procrastination...there is no other control system element that drives me crazier than the elevator system! My last (3) F3A models have all used dual Futaba 9650 elevator servos mounted in the tail. The Focus II I am doing for FLY RC Magazine uses my new system of "supports" using the conventional arrow shaft captured in the tail and "Y" ends. I used a dense, slippery foam packing material about 3/8" thick mounted in (2) places against bulkheads (See attached photos.)

Chip Hyde used (2) 3/16" carbon rods to each elevator half, driven by dual Futaba 9650's mounted in the cockpit area in his Scandalous. I am going to this set-up, vs. the 9650's in the tail, in MY Scandalous in my weight reduction process and CG change.

Troy Newman (Mr. DEPS, Dual Elevator Pushrod System) does a fabulous job with the Central Hobbies DEPS system. I flew with Troy before last years NATS and admired the contol system installations. Troy's systems may be as flight tested as any due to his practice regimen (Very nice way of saying that he flies A LOT).

Mr. Suzuki's Zeque uses a standard "Y" with the exits capturing each pushrod in a nylon sleeve (I assume to reduce play). The fuselage has a number of formers in which to attach supports.

I have not decided. Troy said that he would install the DEPS system if I brought it to Phoenix. I have purchased the parts for the DEPS.

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
Team YS Performance

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Great thread Rusty! Love that workshop, actually an inspiration to (maybe) get mine organised as well!

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Rusty,

I was trying to find some of the more obscure parts that you have, specifically the IM Products needle valve extension and the Nishioka pipe mount, and could not find them on the website, nor in their 2007 catalog. Will I just have to call and order those parts using the part numbers, or are there plans to advertise those? I can't wait to see the build come to fruition.

Also, did you buy that foam from a supplier, or did it come as packaging material? Dave has been racking his brain to find a source for it.

reason for edit: eye kan not cpell

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Ryan Central does not list these parts on their website or in the catolog. Give Mandy a call and she will hook you up.

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Zeque YS DZ 1.60/1.70 powered

This model does NOT have any real choice as to which engine mount to use. Here are photos and weights of my favorite mounts that I have used with success. Pictured are what I call the gold standard- Hyde 140 - 160 "A" mount, the value priced and lighter Hyde 140 - 160 "C" mount and the appropriate choice for the Zeque- the YS mount which is the lightest.

Just as an aside, Merle Hyde, other than sharing Chip with the world, has provided some very important innovations to precision aerobatics including the first soft engine mount. Merle and Chip also were the most prepared and coached team for many years. Chip tells me that they would literally fly thousands of pattern flights a year...hmmmm, my kids (Chip is 4 and Tom is 2) could participate in competitive hockey and I'll be busy 44 weeks a year or... I will continue to expose them to toy airplanes and...


Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
Team YS Performance

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Hey Rusty I started when I was 7. It's something that they will be able to do for a lifetime and share the experience with their Dad. Hockey is cool but the years that they can do it are very limited. I know that being involved in RC from a young age really influenced me greatly and allowed me to have a truly special experience with my father. We really learned to work as a team and it transcended any relationship I have ever seen to this day between a father and son . The kids will be learning many valuable skills and you will be the recipient of something you and they will cherish forever. Then again Hockey is pretty cool. Tough decision either way support the heck out of them. Mike

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BOTH!!!
I started both at about the same age 9 or 10 (back in the mid '60s) and still do both. However, I don't have any aches and pains after a good day of flying. I can't say the same after I play hockey ;)
-Will

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Rusty,
I too am putting together a Focus II and am just about to the point of installing the elevator pushrod.
How did you layout the foam braces you show in the pix?
The bulkheads they will attach to are very narrow framed and the hole for the pushrod will have to be just about dead on to prevent binding up.
Thanks!
JLK

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Zeque YS DZ 1.60/1.70 build

Regarding pushrod installation, my answer applies to all installations not only the Focus II.

Jon,

In order to measure, EASILY align and install my elevator pushrod solution, I cut (2) holes in the bottom of the fuselage. Each 1 1/2" hole was cut with a forstener bit after a slightly larger hole was cut through the covering. The pushrod was installed, measurements of the "center" of each hole at each bulkhead (2) in the case of the Focus II, and then the support material was cut and fit. The pieces were not installed UNTIL the stab and elevators were installed BUT the pushrod was put in the fuselage with the formers "loose" prior to the stab being installed. I also lubricate the rear pushrod capture with lithium grease.

To this point, the elevator is pushed into the rear capture point, the supports are free and the servo tray is floating in the fuselage as well. Connect the rear of the pushrod and adjust the clevis' to center the servo end of the pushrod in the fuselage. Move the servo tray and the various supports until the pushrod moves very freely. In my case, this took a minute because the foam support bulkheads were accurately cut and fit well. Tack glue the servo tray end if satisfied. I used Zap a Dap a Goo to attach my foam (stiff slippery stuff) formers.

The final product is very light, moves perfectly smoothly and optimizes equal elevator movement with little to no slop or "rotational" deviation- perfect for a Focus or built up construction. My skills and patience required me to cut access holes which were filled in with a couple circles of covering. Whatever method you chose, you must execute it for it to work properly, so chose a method consistent with your skills.

Ideally, the kit would have had the pushrod made and installed...or I should have just paid Troy (Mr. DEPS) Newman to do the DEPS before it was shipped. As I have previously stated, I will strain my tiny brain reviewing the options.


Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
Team YS Performance

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Hi Rusty ...
i PM you!

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Rusty:

Things have been quiet, hope this means you have been busy getting the Zeque put together. One simple question; with the YS mount do you still use a nose ring?

Mike

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i dont know what Rusty will do but i know some scandinavians use the Hyde Ara and the original Ys mount in the front as nose ring , this works wery well ...see also some japs convert almost to this.

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babel...fkoujityuu.htm

dont know if this link works ....

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I think that's the Akiba design, the mount attachs onto the three bolts on the back of the YS engine. My friend is using one on his Good Shot and Proline, and he told me its a very good mount.

Adrian

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thats correct this is not the ys mount just to show how its don.

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Zeque Build Glow Powered

YS soft mount

The YS soft mount is mounted to the model with (4) bolts into (2) brackets. One aluminum bracket is friction fit on the front of the engine. A role of brown tape is included with the mount to wrap the area just behind the thrust washer. A rear bracket mounts to the motor with (3) screws and also connects the tiny shock absorber.

The Zeque has specific holes drilled and tapped for the front mount. The rear mount is to be drilled with blind nuts installed after the specific location is identified. The mount allows the engine to rotate exactly about the centerline of the crankshaft.

Here is another photo showing the included directions.


Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
Team YS Performance

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Zeque Build Glow Powered

Progress: Slooooowww

Progress is slow due to my requirement to complete a couple of projects that I will be taking to Phoenix in less than a month. I have just put the final touches on a Focus II ARF which is YS DZ 1.60 powered and an Oxai Beryll powered by a Hacker C50 14XL Comp motor and speed controller. Both models will be featured reviews in FLY RC Magazine comparing and contrasting the two models.

The Zeque project has moved forward and additional photos and discussion will be posted on Monday evening. A number of decisions have been made:

The belly pan and engine compart will be sprayed with PPG catalyzed urethane clear to further protect the beautiful finish.

I am leaning towards the DEPS elevator pushrod...Troy...do you want to do it?

I do want to share my new really cool aluminum cases tricked out by BadBrad Graphics. The larger case on the left (Home Depot $19.95) will hold the batteries, charger, power supply and support stuff for my electric airplane. BadBrad made vinyl spray masks and used aerosol enamel to paint the electric support case logos and the "Team Futaba" on the 12Z case.


Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
Team YS Performance

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Dear Rusty
I´m not an expert in assembling , but I own a Kyosho GTrick 90 ARF kit and the elevator pushrod installation is also driving me crazy. It seems that your pushrod system is easier to install than the Mr Troy`s system . The CF rod ( 3/16" ) showed in the pic is that ( hollowed ) sold by Central Hobbies? The Y ends you use are metal ( how long ) and straight to the elevator clevis ? It shouldn´t be any bind ?
Could I use CF rods ( the ones from DEPS ) for the Y ends?
I´m planning to install MK products all over the plane.

I think I´ll make the holes in the botton of the fuse to easy the job ( for the foam supports ) . The problem is : The GTrick come with japanese colors and the blue color in the botton I will not find anymore - Monokote , Ultracote or any other doesn´t have a matching color.

I`ll install a YS 110 with Hatori cooling header and pipe. The Ishioka pipe mount is the best (and beautiful ) . But the fiber pipe tunnel that came with the kit is too narrow for the two plastic supports, I guess. may be with some work on it.

Ricardo

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Get'er done for Phoenix, or bring the pieces and we'll have a group build.:D

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I got the shop[ to finish it up. Rusty #2 buys the beer! The good news is we can't screw it up since all the alignment stuff is already done. So bring lots of beer.

Brett gets a Coke.

Troy