RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Let's see, my V2.2 fuse gained just over 1 oz. with silkspan and dope. I think at this stage 'glass is more like 3 or 4 oz. Then comes the paint. This is where you can REALLY add weight if you're not careful. The silkspan helps here too because there's no weave to fill. It's basically ready for primer after a quick final sanding. I'll have to look back at my notes to see if I can give you some more details. If you can avoid clear - great. Unfortunately I don't think you'll be happy with the shine that you get from Nelson paint unless you shoot some clear though. The Nelson clear is fine as long as you rub and buff it - I don't know if I'd try to put some other brand of paint over the Nelson color coats. Let me know if you do and it works. LOL
FYI - silkspan comes in 3 grades. I used the lightest grade for my V2.2 fuse. I have some of the heavier stuff too which I may use on the VF-3 wings. The reason being the V2.2 has an OS 160 Fx but the VF-3's will have 170 Dz's. I may even just Monokote the wings on the VF-3's (sorry Mike) to keep the weight down. I was really anxious to fly the V2.2 so the wings didn't come out as good as I'm capable of.

John Pavlick
Team Black Magic, Tech-Aero Designs

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Thanks guys - I have read this entire thread, many, many articles on finishing and everything on the CAA forums.

I have already psyched myself up for weight savings :) I have the scale sitting on the work bench and I have been practicing with my test sheets etc. I am leaning towards silk for the wings after reading more. It seems like a nice compromise between tissue and glass cloth. The only issue being the dope required... but I may be able to heat the garage to apply dope and let it cure for a while before bringing it in the house. The Varathane method also seems to work really well and is super-easy with a really great finish. I may do that on the fuse and silkspan on the wings. I suppose Monokote is not 100% out of the question on the wings.

I want the plane to come out to the heavier side of legal (did I say that out loud???) It is windy ALL THE TIME here. I prefer an over-powered slightly to the heavy side airplane. Maybe in dead calm its not an advantage but it is in any normal condiions. I need to save some room for the inevitable repairs though. We had 2 calm trimming days this sumer here (unless you break the rules and fly at 5am...) I actually drove to Calgary (3 hrs) one day to find some calm air to trim in!

I ship stuff all the time Mike - I am not worried about customs. I have never had them hold anything and only very occasionally they take a peek inside. Most shippers have been very good. I would double-box the bellies though. I just got a box 9ft x 4ft x 3ft at 90lbs with my Bipe inside. They don't care about box size. I ship so much they KNOW me at customs LOL!

I have a TON of potential projects this winter - space is going to be my main issue :) The Integral is still flying so I have no major rush although I would like to have both planes finished for next season. I also have a warbird to finish (with flite metal which takes a REALLY long time) and a 40% Biplane ARF (which would only take 2 weeks if I had all the stuff.)

I'm really looking forward to these builds.

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Silk is not out of the question for the fuse ether - I have some on order so I will do some test sheets. Not needing to fill is a huge bonus for sure.

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

That's good to know that you are KNOWN to customs. I can rest easy that your jig will make it to you then.

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Yep, thanks Pete :) The Jig will come in handy shortly!

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Hey guys what's going on? I haven't seen anything new here in quite a while so hopefully this will wake everyone up. I'm working on my 2 new VF-3's now. Rumor has it I'm finally going to the Dark Side (YS power) for these 2 birds. It's either that or electric and I just can't convince myself that waiting for batteries to charge is a good thing. LOL Any YS setup pic's and tips would be much appreciated...

John Pavlick
Team Black Magic, Tech-Aero Designs

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Hey John, make some dust!

The YS set up is super straight forward with this plane. I'll see if I have any pics I can dig up for you.

basically you want to use one of the ARxx mounts and a nose ring.

use a hatori 821/822 set up for exhaust and just mount the soft mount for the muffler on the bottom plate of the fuse right in front of the gear plate.

Clock the engine 5-6 degrees or so and you won't even have to cut a relief hole for the header. ALWAYS use an anti-knock glow driver to avoid the dreaded kick...

Other than that, think cooling...

-Mike

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Hey John, if you really want to go to the dark side, join me in my gasser VF3 project!<G>.

I'm shooting for 9 pounds 32 ounces<VBG> and I think I can make it with the ZDZ 40 F3A.

I just finished sheeting the cores, so I'm starting the Fuse tonight.

G

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Black Magic gasser? Now THAT would be something! Keep us posted!

Tom

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Hi John,

Go electric.... Not so messy.... lol

Mike or others,

It would be great to see some pictures of electric set-ups in the VF3 too i.e. radio, ESC and battery placement etc.

Cheers
Jason.

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Twist George's arm he has 2 of them LOL

I hope he'll take some pics of that ZDZ set up, because I'm very interested. I know it can be done. Vibration and cooling are the 2 things that worry me the most. Weight is secondary. But, it would make a VERY cool practice plane for sure!!!!

-Mike

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Who is George Mike?

Perhaps I could PM him if I know his alias..

Cheers
Jason.

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

LCHelilover, right up above you [8D]

-Mike

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

I have a couple of pictures of mine, below is one that shows under the canopy. I don't have any pics of the motor/esc, it's really simple, but I can get those in a day or two, headed to work tonight.

Found that I have to push the batteries quite a bit further forward that I had once thought. In fact, I might have to build a new tray to locate them more securely up front. I'll worry about that later this winter. In the picture below, the batteries are actually located about 2.5" further forward than shown here. About half the battery is forward of the hatch. Flies perfect there.

Great flying airplane. I have never been one to jump on any type of band wagon, but seriously, it's phenomenal.

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Man the picture on the write looks like it could be on the cover of the K-Factor. Nice!


Chris Odom
Team Black Magic
Team Dragon Fire

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

EFF;

My batts are half way under the forward end of the canopy, too. That puts my CG just a little ahead of the wing tube.

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Here are some pics of the ZDZ40 mounted on the firewall of the new V3. I'll be starting the fuse tomorrow.

G

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

In front of the wingtube is where you want it....

Arch

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Wow, good to see this thread alive again! Mike - I'm using AR-80 mounts for the VF-3's. Ed and I are working on something that should make starting a YS as painless as back-flipping an OS 2C! LOL I'll keep you informed of our progress.

As soon as I have the Aquila off the bench I'll get back on the VF-3's. As usual it's taking longer than expected but I should have it finished this week. I haven't made much progress on the VF-3's yet but that will change VERY soon. I'll post some pic's when I have something interesting. I'm thinking of full silkspan and paint on these but I'm not sure if that's such a good idea with the YS up front.

John Pavlick
Team Black Magic, Tech-Aero Designs

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

For the record, the initial cg we started with was forward of the tube... it's just further now. Zero mixing, snaps are beautiful, and spins are good as well.

Thanks for the comment on the pic. That was taken at my father's field in Gardnerville, NV the day of the maiden in April. In fact, that was the last day I had at the field with Dad, he passed in June. He never got a chance to fly it, I offered but he was happy to see me fly the plane he built for me. As it turns out, it was the last plane he built.

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Ex,
What you have there is priceless. I know when Mike reads your post he'll be proud and also get one of those hard lumps in his throat. Your plane looks great and that background is just totally beautiful. Fly that plane proudly for your Dad he must have thought of you as something really special. Take good care of it.

Larry Odom
Team Black Magic
Team Dragonfire Customs

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Wow Tom, that's just...Larry's right. I'm speechless, and that's a first.

I remember talking to your dad for an hour or better on the phone. Saying he was really looking forward to building that plane for you. Just talking shop, building, techniques, set up, planning, trying new stuff, etc.

And now to hear how much you're enjoying it, and read the rest of the story...it reminds me why we did all of this in the first place. Makes me happy and a little sad all at once.

That really is a fantastic pic too. GORGEOUS.

Take care of that plane man, it's definitely one of a kind....

-Mike

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Guys, thank you for your kind words. Really, this has been a really tough time as I am sure you can all imagine. I don't get a lot of time to go out flying, and actually, don't have much of a desire to go flying anymore. But with all that is going on, I need some sort of break from time to time, and when I take out the Black Magic, it feels like I'm going out to the field not just with Dad's last airplane, but in a sense, with Dad.

I remember when you had that conversation with my Dad Mike. For the most part we had just talked about building one, he had been interested from the beginning, but since neither of us were involved in Pattern anymore (variety of reasons) we never decided to pull the trigger on one. Anyway, more and more he talked about the plane, how he would build it, what he would cover it with, etc. Not all that unusual really, there probably hasn't been a model designed that he and I hadn't talked about building, it's just something we did, it was how we related since I was eight or so. He called me up one day and said, "So, do you want a Black Magic?" but before I could answer he followed, "... should be here in a few weeks." That was the day he called you, he remarked about how nice of a guy you were and how long you had talked. He really enjoyed building that plane, and we had planned possibly another. I still want another one, but I will have to do that solo now.

I apologize for hijacking the thread and bringing it to a standstill. I honestly didn't mean to change the subject, but I did want to comment on the plane and respond to the kind words.

Anyway, I'll try to get a couple of pics with the motor and esc installation tomorrow if there is any interest. It's nothing new, but it might help those who are still in the middle of the build.

Regards,

Tom M

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

"Anyway, I'll try to get a couple of pics with the motor and esc installation tomorrow if there is any interest. It's nothing new, but it might help those who are still in the middle of the build. "

Hi Tom,

Yes there's still interest from down under!

Cheers
Jason.

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Not hijacking at all Tom. To me it just underscores the "other side" of this modeling thing. It's what we do, and who we are. It's simply the other part of modeling that you don't always see at the flying field.

Jason there's really not a lot to see. It's so simple and so basic. Most people mount the ESC underneath the fuse, under the chin cowl behind the firewall. The motor can be mounted a number of different ways, but not to the nose ring only, that won't work. You can either use stand offs (my favorite but some guys out west hate it), or some form of box mount system...I have that but it's special order and I only use it when someone just refuses to do it my way LOL

The packs go where you see them....on a tray/floor between the firewall and the F3 former, usually a bit forward. CG usually ends up between the LE of the tube and the rear face of F3, depending on your preference in trimming and "feel". Exactly where the packs end up will totally be dictated by the plane itself, but I haven't found one that won't balance yet. Unless you get it REALLY heavy in the tail and use elevator servos in the stabs, then you have to get creative. This plane has a very short nose moment and an extremely long tail moment. So build it like you think it's going to be tail heavy....minimize everything behind the wing tube. That way you'll come out light and with a very easy trimming plane.

One thing about this plane: most people seem to really like it. I mean like....a lot. it doesn't have a bunch of fancy gimmicks, bells and whistles, instead it's just a solid, honest plane that flies straight and easy. It can take a little getting used to because it flies slower than most. The fuselage is HUGE, the wings are thick, and it's very draggy. Some have likened the drag profile to a 40% plane. Just do a power off down line close and listen (LOL) Therefore taking this all into account, you have to be very proficeint with the rudder and throttle as well as the aileron/evevator. But when you get used to it.......it's deadly.

If you're flying the electric version, think pitch for the prop. 20" max, 13-15 on the pitch and it is a very good match.

-Mike

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Here are a couple of pics, sorry they are a bit blurry as I took them with my phone. My other cameras' batteries were dead. But like Mike said, there is nothing earthshattering about how this is done. The motor is mounted on standoffs like Mike recommends. I have done several models this way and it's simple and effective. You just need to make sure the firewall is absolutely stiff, so be careful how much you cut out of it for airflow. We did a bit too much and had to put a lattice type structure in to stiffen it back up.

The position of the battery in this pic is where I fly with it. What I need to do is pull out the tray that's in there and locate it more forward. Not a lot of work, but I am just not in the mood for it. It flies fine this way.

Tom