RE: YS-170CDI Flight Report
 

Pictures for yepe.

I am running my ignition module off of the receiver pack, and have not had any trouble so far. I range checked the airplane with the engine off, and with the engine running and noticed no difference in range. I am running 2.4 and highly stress that you only use this setup if you are running 2.4. If you're on 72, 50, or whatever else, please keep the ignition components as far away from the radio components as possible.

RE: YS-170CDI Flight Report
 

Nice installation Ryan,....can't wait to get one:D



Bill Holsten

RE: YS-170CDI Flight Report
 

Thanks Bill!

RE: YS-170CDI Flight Report
 

Ryan, what Mount are you using for the CDI?

thanks, Chris Odom

Team Black Magic
Team Dragon Fire
CAA

RE: YS-170CDI Flight Report
 

Chris,

It's just a Hyde AR mount that came with the airplane. I'm sure an AR-80 or similar will be fine.

RE: YS-170CDI Flight Report
 

thanks Ryan. hope it is running well. I really think YS is moving in the right direction with this addition to the YS 170

RE: YS-170CDI Flight Report
 

Ryan, UKPatternFlyer:

I tached the motor and got the following numbers:

NOTE: All numbers are on 6% oil, 15% nitro. The needle was at 1 1/4 turns out.

18.1x10 : 8000 RPM
18.1x10W : 7700 RPM
19x11 : 6900 RPM (saw 7000 RPM at peak)

Not bad for just 15% Nitro and 6% oil. The motor is very smooth and accelerates like a turbine. My YS110 seems positively mediocre after experiencing this motor (not to mention that it needs 30% and 20% oil to run reasonably well!).

I have one more question: I find that the motor is not easy to prime. What's the best priming technique? Does one have to run the starter and simply turn it over for a bit? The throttle opening seems to have some affect on this as well. I'd appreciate it if someone can give me the best priming technique for this motor.

Thanks all!

Atul

RE: YS-170CDI Flight Report
 

Hi Ryan

You 'll do great flights with Partner and CDI. It's an awesome plane.
How muffler Hatori is installed ? Fuse is height narrow where there is the muffler. Did you cut the fuse ?
Have you a picture to show ?
I ask these questions because I have a carbon Asano muffler and if I have to change (if it brokes !) I'll choose a Hatori.
Claude

RE: YS-170CDI Flight Report
 

Thanks Ryan

RE: YS-170CDI Flight Report
 

Claude,

I used the 29mm Nishioka one touch mount. You will probably be better off with the 20mm if you can get it, because I had to bend the mounting springs down some on the 29mm. It is much easier than the stock mount that comes with the pipe, especially for the Partner. I did not want to cut the fuse too much, on this Partner, I just cut a hole big enough for the pipe to exit, and left the floor in. On my other Partner, I sealed the back hole up, took most of the floor out, and made the tunnel shorter. I did have to make the a little bigger hole for the air exit since I sealed the rear one up.

I will get pictures tonight.

RE: YS-170CDI Flight Report
 

Atul,

This motor gets fuel in the head about the same as any other DZ. I really haven't run anything other than the DZ's much, but I just use the starter to turn it over with the carb barrel open all the way. BE SURE that if you have the ignition on a kill switch that the switch works, or that the airplane is turned off. That was my one drawback on the first run- I did not 100% trust the switch until I verified it's function by turning the motor off with it. I actually turn the motor off by turning off the switch periodically just to verify that it still works and so far, this has not caused any issues.

RE: YS-170CDI Flight Report
 

Hi Atul,

First run of the day open the throttle and crank the engine 180 degrees backwards and forwards to actuate the pump so that fuel is drawn to the injector pipe; you can see the fuel progressing through it. If after a while it hasn't reached there, there may be some congealed fuel slowing things down a bit in the system (especially on cold days), or if you've got a long tank feed, it might just take a while to get there. Either way pull the fuel feed from the tank to the pump, and ensure fuel can dribble out of it. That way you know you've got fuel to the pump ok. Reattach the pipe and repeat the cranking thing with the throttle wide open. Needless to say, only do this if you are certain the ignition unit is off with the CDi. If you still can't see fuel moving to the injector then you've either got a blockage or the needle is shut.

Once fuel reaches the injector, crank the engine by hand a couple of turns to let the fuel lubricate the engine. After that you are good to go with either CDi or DZ. Don't forget to shut the throttle down to idle before starting; Boy when you forget this once, you'll never forget again.

This is ok for the first run of the day; after that you shouldn't need to do it.

JFYI, today:

Angels Shadow DZ / 18 x 11WPN 7700- 7900 rpm; 30/20 Optifuel;
Proline CDi 18.1 x 11 7800rpm; 25/10 Optifuel

Hope this helps

Keith

RE: YS-170CDI Flight Report
 

Thanks Ryan

I first ran the engine yesterday, it idle very smooth and really low rev than normal. I first start with 2.5 turn and slowly lean it down to 1 turn. The peak rev on the ground was perfect and i did some taxi on the ground for a while to make sure my 2.4 works ok. As it took off for a while the plain fly ok but when i pull up vertical the engine started to back down like it was too lean. Then I richer it up to 1 1/4 and hope that the vertical pull will be ok, after the first half reverse Cuban eight came back level flight my 2.4 was totally death. I tried move all the sticks with my both hands then for 4-5 second later the radio came back. I shut down the engine and landed the plain immediately and checked if my rx batt is ok as i fully charged it before flight and i got 7.4v on it as it was 8.1v before flight.

Do you think it is something to do with my futaba 2.4G or it is the regulator that given too much Amp drawn out to both RX and the Ignition??? I think i was very lucky not to lose the plain... :(
Thanks for any advice

Cheers,

Patrick S

RE: YS-170CDI Flight Report
 

FWIW, I think that you are playing with fire to run both your airborne pack and ignition from a single battery. You are taking a single point of failure and making it work even harder than normal. I don't run the 170 CDI, but if I did it would have its own, separate battery. Yes, it's a little more weight, but you do not add to the failure scenarios that can cost you an airplane, you subtract from them. I actually run dual regulators / dual batteries for the flight pack in everything I fly that I cannot afford to replace.

Anyway, it sounds like you ran the battery down to the edge of being discharged and were lucky to get the model back. Think about this for a moment guys: If you run both the flight pack and the ignition from the same battery, how will you determine what each is drawing? If you run them from separate packs, you would have a foolproof method of knowing how two completely separate systems are performing from a current draw standpoint.

RE: YS-170CDI Flight Report
 

Patrick,
I had similar situation with JR 2,4 when I run my YS110 on ignition feeding ignition & receiver with one regulator.
When I swittched to separate regulators problem went away.
My theory that reg. might not be fast enouth & drops voltage causing reboot on reseiver.
For my next model I'm going to use A123 battery pack to get reed of regulators all together, point of failure.

RE: YS-170CDI Flight Report
 

The single battery configurations that I've heard about that work have ignition going directly to the battery, not after the regulator. However, that does nothing to eliminate the problems that can occur from running a single battery, no matter what the cell technology. Don't blame the regulator, blame the configuration.

Just because something can be forced to work doesn't necessarily make it a good idea.

RE: YS-170CDI Flight Report
 

I was going to bite my tongue on this bit about using unregulated A123 batteries for the flight pack, but I can't do it. Here again, I know there are guys doing this and I know it "works". Agreed, in a single battery configuration, if you remove a regulator, you have eliminated a potential source of a catastrophic failure. However, in doing so you have introduced another potential problem. For many (most) servos today, you are running them well over the voltage that they are intended to operate at. Again, it "works", but you really don't know how much you may be shortening servo life and possibly bringing on an unexpected failure in the future. My criteria for stuff like this is whether I would willingly strap myself into a full scale aircraft that had such a system concept in use.

Anyway, you could toss in a series diode or two to drop the voltage by 0.7 per diode and remove the high voltage issue, but you are back to introducing a new single point of failure. OK, put pairs of diodes in parallel. In that configuration, if one diode dies, the airplane lives. Kludgy, but it would work as long as your solder joints are good. I should add that you will never know if one diode HAS failed in a parallel configuration, unless the 2nd one fails as well.

The other thing to keep in mind with A123 batteries is that after the initial charge is burned down, the discharge curve is very flat. This is great when you are hanging drywall and a fresh battery is a few feet away in your toolbox. Not so great unless you have been scrupulously monitoring your current drawdown rates and fully understand what's LIKELY to be left in the battery based on usage and presumed battery health. In other words, the typical voltage reading that we do before flight isn't going to tell you squat.

RE: YS-170CDI Flight Report
 

I don't disagry with a A123 flat voltage drop curve, so you better know what you are doing with equipment aspecially when it's 2m plane.
But, It takes quite a bit of diligence, balance,judgment & calculation to be competitive in this sport.
You won't put 3000mAh 300g Nicad battery in your FAI plane just to make sure.

RE: YS-170CDI Flight Report
 

There is no single battery configuration of any capacity or weight that I would use in an airplane that I can't afford to replace. To be sure, I put in a redundant pair 480 or 730 Mah LiPo's with redundant, failsafe regulators that are precisely matched to each other for the same voltage output and which are rated at 5A each. That way, I can monitor exactly what is happening with each battery for every flight. I know what I put in to each battery, and I can see what is coming out from each battery. If anything does not correspond to what I expect to see, I immediately know that I should inspect for a problem with a battery, wire, regulator etc. I can do this each time with an intact airplane, not during a post crash investigation. There is no single point of failure to kill the airplane and it is very light. This is the cheapest insurance I know of. To each his own!

RE: YS-170CDI Flight Report
 

These are the same concetps that we worked so hard with on the big 40% IMAC planes years ago before the invention of the I4C Isolators, Power Boxes, Smart fly, Emcotecs, etc. We did everything in pairs back then,..two receivers, two batteries, two switches and then eventually two regulators. The ignitions were seperate as far away from the receivers and even the throttle servos to ensure noise (RF/EMI: Electro magnetic Induction) would not transfer through the system. Equipment has evolved a bunch since then, but it's not bullet proof. The addition of the digital servo created problems in the beginning with long servo leads, to small of wire guage and highter voltage batteries,..hence a newer level of internal interference was born and the ferret rings were introduced. And ferret rings have been used for years in commercial low voltage applications to filter noise and balance data driven system were electrical impulses are used as a communication format to field equipment,..like servos.;)

Most people dont realize that nearly all electrical devices that accept voltage has a minimum and a maximum RF level that is acceptable,..no matter how well its filtered. In our case these specifications are not provided with the equipment we use. I spent quite a bit of time years ago with my $2000.00 Fluke Multi-meter stuck in the front end of a plane taking Noise, RF and DB readings, etc. And the the readings were shocking to say the least,..ofcourse the material make-up of the plane has some bearing on it aswell,.etc,..ect.

So,..I have to agree with NJRCFLYER2,..it's simply playing with fire,..safety,..safety,..safety!. I (IMOP) don't think the two systems shared on one switch actually meets the AMA reccomendations for ingnition driven engines for the U.S. guys.

I simply remind myself from time to time,..the guys doing the testing on this stuff can afford to replace a $10,000.00 pattern plane. Myself,..I'm not so fast to follow the masses, because I can't take the risk,..been down that road,..done that and won the award![:'(]


Question: The Tech-Aero system,.....the dual regulator set-up on the web-site are fail-safe rerulators, wired into one fail-safe switch (PM if you want)? If that's the case I know whats going in all my plane,..will order one this week.:D


One last thing,.....with these beautiful expensive planes we fly,....safety should always come first and not be taken lightly, no matter how smart you are or how seasoned you are. I'll wait for the "Beta" test to end and wait for the results to come in over a period of time.

Best Regards,

Bill Holsten
Advantage Hobby & Fliton Field Rep./Custom Airframes of America/ Dragon Fire Graphics/Guardian America.

RE: YS-170CDI Flight Report
 

I was recently reminded that I should put my affiliation with Tech-Aero in my signature, so I've added that.

A pair of Tech-Aero regulators can be wired into one switch or each can have its own switch. Guys flying electric often don't want any switch, so that configuration is available as well. The switches are failsafe in design, i.e., there is no current whatsoever carried by the switch when the regulator is on, so a switch failure results in the regulator going or staying on. There is a minute (about 20 microamps) current through the switch to shut the regulator off.

To be fair, you can do everything I've described with another brand regulator, such as a Jaicco, SmartFly etc. The main differences between Tech-Aero and other brands is the programmability of the Tech-Aero, combined with the very precise voltage output matching that can be accomplished. By design, and as a result of precise trimming with 0.5% tolerance pad resistors during production, you will find that Tech-Aero regulators stay within 0.01V of each other (or better). That extra precision is what's needed to get two equal sized battery packs to track each other very closely. I've used Jaccio's and it's a great product as well. Either solution can save your airplane if a battery or regulator fails if configured as redundant supplies.

RE: YS-170CDI Flight Report
 

Bill,
Can your refer me to the AMA safety recommendations on switches for ignition systems on the AMA site? They don't appear to be in the safety code, I can't find them in the competition rules, and several searches didn't turn up anything relevant.

Thanks.

RE: YS-170CDI Flight Report
 

Jon:
I think it would still require a separate switch for the ignition to the battery, based on what I've heard most 170 CDI flyers are doing, i.e., battery to ignition, battery to regulator, regulator to flight pack.

RE: YS-170CDI Flight Report
 

Thanks to all

Now i know what i have to try next. I will start with 2 lipo and 2 regulators then or maybe i would try putting 6.0v NiCad pass the switch though the CDI first. If that works I would try the 2 lipos for weight reduce.

I have some question on the Tech-Aero Regulator and thanks again to NJRCFLYER2. What is the size and its weight? cus I use Jaccio cus it quite small and not as big as many that i saw. What do you mean by FAIL-SAFE? What action does it do when activate? Where can i buy it?

Thanks again to all, it's really helpful for my next decision and reduce my risk to Ka-Boom my lovely pattern ship ;)

Cheers,
Patrick S

RE: YS-170CDI Flight Report
 

Here John for what it's worth. It's a gray area, without the use of the radio system is vague in reference to using a common switch. I would think practicle knowledge would prevail,...but it's left up to intepretation.


SECTION 5.0: EMERGENCY ENGINE SHUT OFF (Kill Switch)
5.1 Magneto spark ignition engines must have a coil-grounding switch on the aircraft to stop the engine.
This will also prevent accidental starting of the engine. This switch shall be readily available to both
pilot and spotter/helper. This switch is to be operated manually and without the use of the Radio
System.
5.2 Engines with battery powered ignition systems must have a switch to turn off the power from the
battery pack to disable the engine from firing. This will also prevent accidental starting of the engine.
This switch shall be readily available to both pilot and spotter/helper. This switch shall be operated
manually and without the use of the Radio System.
5.3 There must also be a means to stop the engine from the transmitter. The most common method is
to close the carburetor throat completely using throttle trim, however other methods are acceptable.
This requirement applies to all glow/gas ignition engines regardless of size.

Bill Holsten