Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide
12-08-2010, 11:56 PM
#51
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RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide
Hi all,
Reading this thread ( I never imagined that it would provoke such an enthusiastic response!), I can see that there is strong agreement that a) we need to bring this knowledge together, and b) we need it in a form that is readily accessible. In posts 7,8, I mentioned a few ideas.
To address a), an expert(s) could bring the information together. As we have seen in this small thread there are a huge number of possibilities and expert users are finding lots of different ways to achieve the same end. To do this endeavour would involve a sustantial amount of work?
Concerning b) I would question whether a book is the most appropriate form because I do not suppose that it would ever be able to achieve the collective wisdom of all users - not perhaps in the way that the contributions in this thread have evolved? In a digital form I can see the information being much more easy to search and offers the opportunity to link in video and other sites such as the Futabe Club (which I was not aware of).
The great thing about the Internet is its ability to link networks, people and information, and so I cannot help but think that a Wikki style approach offers the potential to meet that need. If a site were to be established, it could contain a template that users could fill out with the 'how to' - 'why do' type information. By linking to Hobbico, Futaba, Futaba Club for specific references, video's etc - then it could serve the needs of those who like to learn in different ways. Just think that a 'how to'could also be linked to a set-up template at the Futaba Club site (for members) and through this we have the knowledge and the example virtually assembled...
In due course it would be emninently possible to compile a book from these 'how to' templates, if the templates are constructed correctly in the first instance. There are Internet standards for this stuff - so anyone who wants to 'compile' a book can do so, and then print it out for their own use.
What do you reckon?
Reading this thread ( I never imagined that it would provoke such an enthusiastic response!), I can see that there is strong agreement that a) we need to bring this knowledge together, and b) we need it in a form that is readily accessible. In posts 7,8, I mentioned a few ideas.
To address a), an expert(s) could bring the information together. As we have seen in this small thread there are a huge number of possibilities and expert users are finding lots of different ways to achieve the same end. To do this endeavour would involve a sustantial amount of work?
Concerning b) I would question whether a book is the most appropriate form because I do not suppose that it would ever be able to achieve the collective wisdom of all users - not perhaps in the way that the contributions in this thread have evolved? In a digital form I can see the information being much more easy to search and offers the opportunity to link in video and other sites such as the Futabe Club (which I was not aware of).
The great thing about the Internet is its ability to link networks, people and information, and so I cannot help but think that a Wikki style approach offers the potential to meet that need. If a site were to be established, it could contain a template that users could fill out with the 'how to' - 'why do' type information. By linking to Hobbico, Futaba, Futaba Club for specific references, video's etc - then it could serve the needs of those who like to learn in different ways. Just think that a 'how to'could also be linked to a set-up template at the Futaba Club site (for members) and through this we have the knowledge and the example virtually assembled...
In due course it would be emninently possible to compile a book from these 'how to' templates, if the templates are constructed correctly in the first instance. There are Internet standards for this stuff - so anyone who wants to 'compile' a book can do so, and then print it out for their own use.
What do you reckon?
12-09-2010, 06:17 AM
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RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide
Pro... From Steve K's response to me, it seems like the Futaba Flyer's Club already has a lot of what we may need.
Is anyone currently a member of the FFC? And how does it rate?
r/s... Roger Parrett / Dayton / OH
Is anyone currently a member of the FFC? And how does it rate?
r/s... Roger Parrett / Dayton / OH
12-09-2010, 06:19 AM
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RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide
Since there already exists the Futaba 12FG FAQ and Hobbico's Futaba 12FG owner forum (Futaba Flyers' Club), it would seem to me that the 12FG owner forum may be a natural place to home any organized compendium of practical information for the 12FG (and 8FG) that might be linked from all the many scattered sources plus practical tutorials.
The problem with a printed book is the 12FG/8FG will change gradually as Futaba releases software updates. However, if any particular well-known technical author wanted to publish an electronic version of the "Futaba 12FG User Guide" not unlike the printed "Futaba 9C User Guide", I certainly would purchase a subscription to the web version.
Just my thoughts...
The problem with a printed book is the 12FG/8FG will change gradually as Futaba releases software updates. However, if any particular well-known technical author wanted to publish an electronic version of the "Futaba 12FG User Guide" not unlike the printed "Futaba 9C User Guide", I certainly would purchase a subscription to the web version.
Just my thoughts...
12-09-2010, 06:28 AM
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RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide
The Futaba Flyers' Club forum has some informaton in it, but it is not very user-friendly, especially for the new owner. There is a much more information in the 14MZforum. I owned my 12FG for several months and I really appreciate Steve Kaluf's video tutorials because in in the 15 minutes of total run time I now understand more about setting up my 12FG than in weeks spent fiddling and searching the 12FG forum. Yes, there are set-ups but most are for 14MZ, and as an dummy (advanced degree software engineer) I can't seem to figure out how to translate those 14MZ files to my 12FG.
12-09-2010, 06:42 AM
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RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide
Yes, there are set-ups but most are for 14MZ, and as an dummy (advanced degree software engineer) I can't seem to figure out how to translate those 14MZ files to my 12FG.
http://www.futaba-rc.com/downloads.html
and get this file
http://downloads.hobbico.com/softwar...aConverter.exe
Instructions: http://downloads.hobbico.com/softwar...aConverter.pdf
From the instructions:
Model Data Converter
The Futaba Model Data Converter is designed to allow modelers to quickly and efficiently share data
between various Futaba transmitters that utilize either an SD or CF memory card. For example, it is
now possible to copy the model data from a T14MZ transmitter and utilize this data on Futaba’s T12FG
system without having to manually reprogram the 12FG to do so.
The Futaba Model Data Converter is designed to allow modelers to quickly and efficiently share data
between various Futaba transmitters that utilize either an SD or CF memory card. For example, it is
now possible to copy the model data from a T14MZ transmitter and utilize this data on Futaba’s T12FG
system without having to manually reprogram the 12FG to do so.
12-09-2010, 06:51 AM
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RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide
I have the converter.
I have converted 14MZ to 12z and FG, however, I have not tried to load it in a TX yet.
It seems to work fine on my PC. I simply haven't the need to load it and do any testing.
Perhaps later next week.
The thing is, if it cannot do 100% accurately, it may be more hassle to find the nuances and do corrections.
Anyone have any real world experience.
DR
I have converted 14MZ to 12z and FG, however, I have not tried to load it in a TX yet.
It seems to work fine on my PC. I simply haven't the need to load it and do any testing.
Perhaps later next week.
The thing is, if it cannot do 100% accurately, it may be more hassle to find the nuances and do corrections.
Anyone have any real world experience.
DR
12-09-2010, 08:45 AM
#60
RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide
I have used the Data Converter to convert a 14MZ model file to my 12FG. The model is a pattern plane using typical DR, Expo, Throttle cut, airbrakes and 2 conditions. Everything worked fine on the 12FG. I went thru each function once it was loaded on the 12FG and didn't find anything that did not convert. There are probably some complex functions that might not convert but I did not find any with the model that I used.
Woodie
Team Acme LG
Woodie
Team Acme LG
12-09-2010, 11:55 AM
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RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide
Wow.... glad I found this thread!!! And saw the video mentioned on the first page of it. I never understood the 100% travel and 135% limits for end point programming. The manual is terrible at explaining things, and mine is even outdated at this point. It is for the 12FG before FASST was available.
One problem with the Futaba Owners Club. My Futabas are adopted. I bought both of mine second hand, and never received a registration card to get into the club. It seems kind of dumb to make an exclusive club... the idea is to share information with as many as need it, not only to the ones that are allowed in because they have proof they bought it new.
A book would be nice, but I think a better site on the web with a more robust FAQ than the present one would be better, and maybe a down loadable version of the FAQs for when you are out in the field. Books cost money to produce. Electronic media is most likely the way of the future.... take a look at the popularity of Kindles and Nooks.
One problem with the Futaba Owners Club. My Futabas are adopted. I bought both of mine second hand, and never received a registration card to get into the club. It seems kind of dumb to make an exclusive club... the idea is to share information with as many as need it, not only to the ones that are allowed in because they have proof they bought it new.
A book would be nice, but I think a better site on the web with a more robust FAQ than the present one would be better, and maybe a down loadable version of the FAQs for when you are out in the field. Books cost money to produce. Electronic media is most likely the way of the future.... take a look at the popularity of Kindles and Nooks.
12-09-2010, 07:00 PM
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RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide
Wonderful having all the various responses, suggestions and (at least in my case) rants!
Book vs. Internet:
I vote for both, personally. There is an in between state as well. I bought Don Edberg's book on line. http://dynmodel.com/ I bought the book as a down-loadable PDF with the agreement that I could print it out (one time) if I so choose. I so choose and now I have my own (paper) copy, printed out at the local Staples.
Does it have a table of contents? Yes. Does it have an index? Yes. Can I sit and fiddle with the Tx while I read? YES!
It's only failing is it's out of date and there's no glossary.
I think it goes without saying at this point that personally, I like having a book in my lap. Put it down to just being old, if you like, but the form of a book with the table of contents, index and glossary is a template a few hundred years old, now, and one that seems to work pretty reliably.
As for having various things available by download, and as this pertains to the Futaba Flyers Club:
So how about it, Steve and company.. since you brought it up, how about making the Flyers Club information available to everyone INCLUDING us 8 FG owners?
OK.. another rant: Some of you may not be aware this 'club' is available ONLY to owners of 12 & 14 channel radios. With apologies to Steve, (I see you're trying to help) having you mention that we could download all manner of set-ups, etc, (I own an 8 FG) only rubs salt in a rather obviously raw wound.
Profmb, I have to tip my hat to you for having such wonderfully innovative notions of how we could all share information and at the end of the day, just go fly our airplanes.
I absolutely LOVE the idea that contributors like some of those on the RC Groups 8 FG thread http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...092861&page=86 could enlighten us all in a hopefully searchable fashion.
How about starting with the Futaba glossary? Goodness knows we could use one.
Thanks to all for these great suggestions. I have a feeling we're getting Futaba's attention, at least Futaba North America. (It's a start, but not where the real authority resides.)
'Bout time, IMHO.
Book vs. Internet:
I vote for both, personally. There is an in between state as well. I bought Don Edberg's book on line. http://dynmodel.com/ I bought the book as a down-loadable PDF with the agreement that I could print it out (one time) if I so choose. I so choose and now I have my own (paper) copy, printed out at the local Staples.
Does it have a table of contents? Yes. Does it have an index? Yes. Can I sit and fiddle with the Tx while I read? YES!
It's only failing is it's out of date and there's no glossary.
I think it goes without saying at this point that personally, I like having a book in my lap. Put it down to just being old, if you like, but the form of a book with the table of contents, index and glossary is a template a few hundred years old, now, and one that seems to work pretty reliably.
As for having various things available by download, and as this pertains to the Futaba Flyers Club:
So how about it, Steve and company.. since you brought it up, how about making the Flyers Club information available to everyone INCLUDING us 8 FG owners?
OK.. another rant: Some of you may not be aware this 'club' is available ONLY to owners of 12 & 14 channel radios. With apologies to Steve, (I see you're trying to help) having you mention that we could download all manner of set-ups, etc, (I own an 8 FG) only rubs salt in a rather obviously raw wound.
Profmb, I have to tip my hat to you for having such wonderfully innovative notions of how we could all share information and at the end of the day, just go fly our airplanes.
I absolutely LOVE the idea that contributors like some of those on the RC Groups 8 FG thread http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...092861&page=86 could enlighten us all in a hopefully searchable fashion.
How about starting with the Futaba glossary? Goodness knows we could use one.
Thanks to all for these great suggestions. I have a feeling we're getting Futaba's attention, at least Futaba North America. (It's a start, but not where the real authority resides.)
'Bout time, IMHO.
12-14-2010, 03:06 AM
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RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide
I share the views expressed here about the inadequacy of the 8FG manual. As a result of many hours of experimentation and cross-checking with the servo monitor I feel that I am beginning to understand the radio. In the process I have kept a brief set of notes as an aide-memoire for when I need a particular feature in the future. It is possible that these could be of use to fellow strugglers. Accordingly I attach a copy here. They make no pretence to be a proper user guide (that is Futaba’s responsibility) but hopefully they may be of some help if read in conjunction with the manual. If not, they have cost you nothing. I only fly fixed wing so there is no reference to those features specific to helicopters.
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RCoffroadracer (01-22-2024)
12-14-2010, 03:08 AM
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RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide
ORIGINAL: roo
Looking forward to 103. Anybody got the link to 101?. thanks, Paul.
Looking forward to 103. Anybody got the link to 101?. thanks, Paul.
Howard
12-14-2010, 12:42 PM
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RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide
Thanks so much malcomholt! Just reading this is so helpful - I see that you express the same sentiment as I did when I strated this thread - the 'why' is as important as the 'what'. I can easily see why my 12FG should be an object of joy to use - rather than an intimidating challenge! I am on holiday next week, and one of the things that I intend to do is to sit down with all of the information in this thread and see where it takes me. I still have in my mind the need for a Wikki style approach to all of this, and so I may also look into what is required to set this up....cheers
12-15-2010, 01:16 AM
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RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide
Thank you, Profmb, for your comments. I am glad you found the notes helpful. I did have some reservations about placing them online for the reason given below but did so as several fellow modellers persuaded me that they might be useful.
The notes were written in my spare time over a couple of weeks and starting from a position of complete ignorance. I cannot help feeling that it would be a relatively simple matter for someone at Futaba who really understands the system to do a very much better job.
There are some excellent ideas in this thread but they should not be allowed to detract from the real point which is that Futaba could, and should, produce a decent manual. It should not be up to their paying customers to have to provide support for their products.
The notes were written in my spare time over a couple of weeks and starting from a position of complete ignorance. I cannot help feeling that it would be a relatively simple matter for someone at Futaba who really understands the system to do a very much better job.
There are some excellent ideas in this thread but they should not be allowed to detract from the real point which is that Futaba could, and should, produce a decent manual. It should not be up to their paying customers to have to provide support for their products.
12-16-2010, 03:44 AM
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RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide
ORIGINAL: malcolmholt
I share the views expressed here about the inadequacy of the 8FG manual. As a result of many hours of experimentation and cross-checking with the servo monitor I feel that I am beginning to understand the radio. In the process I have kept a brief set of notes as an aide-memoire for when I need a particular feature in the future. It is possible that these could be of use to fellow strugglers. Accordingly I attach a copy here. They make no pretence to be a proper user guide (that is Futaba’s responsibility) but hopefully they may be of some help if read in conjunction with the manual. If not, they have cost you nothing. I only fly fixed wing so there is no reference to those features specific to helicopters.
I share the views expressed here about the inadequacy of the 8FG manual. As a result of many hours of experimentation and cross-checking with the servo monitor I feel that I am beginning to understand the radio. In the process I have kept a brief set of notes as an aide-memoire for when I need a particular feature in the future. It is possible that these could be of use to fellow strugglers. Accordingly I attach a copy here. They make no pretence to be a proper user guide (that is Futaba’s responsibility) but hopefully they may be of some help if read in conjunction with the manual. If not, they have cost you nothing. I only fly fixed wing so there is no reference to those features specific to helicopters.
Thank you for posting your notes. They are the best written, most thorough and easiest to understand instructions on how/why to program the 8FG, 12FG, 12Z and 14MZ. Proof that it can be done. Nicely done and thank you again sir.
Howard
12-16-2010, 04:44 AM
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RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide
Malcom, thanks to you, I'm actually beginning to understand conditions, how they work, why there's a copy function, what priorities are all about and more I have yet to process. What a GREAT set of functions! Who knew!?
THIS is why I bought this radio!
I second Howard's comments. Thank you, Malcome and a hearty BRAVO!
THIS is why I bought this radio!
I second Howard's comments. Thank you, Malcome and a hearty BRAVO!
12-16-2010, 06:35 AM
#74
RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide
Malcom: Thanks for the notes. Well Done!!
I got a 8FG a month ago and managed to get several planes transferred to it in spite of Futaba's manual. Your notes and this thread will help me make more use of the 8FG capabilities.
Brian
I got a 8FG a month ago and managed to get several planes transferred to it in spite of Futaba's manual. Your notes and this thread will help me make more use of the 8FG capabilities.
Brian
12-16-2010, 07:50 AM
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RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide
ORIGINAL: malcolmholt
I share the views expressed here about the inadequacy of the 8FG manual. As a result of many hours of experimentation and cross-checking with the servo monitor I feel that I am beginning to understand the radio. In the process I have kept a brief set of notes as an aide-memoire for when I need a particular feature in the future. It is possible that these could be of use to fellow strugglers. Accordingly I attach a copy here. They make no pretence to be a proper user guide (that is Futaba’s responsibility) but hopefully they may be of some help if read in conjunction with the manual. If not, they have cost you nothing. I only fly fixed wing so there is no reference to those features specific to helicopters.
I share the views expressed here about the inadequacy of the 8FG manual. As a result of many hours of experimentation and cross-checking with the servo monitor I feel that I am beginning to understand the radio. In the process I have kept a brief set of notes as an aide-memoire for when I need a particular feature in the future. It is possible that these could be of use to fellow strugglers. Accordingly I attach a copy here. They make no pretence to be a proper user guide (that is Futaba’s responsibility) but hopefully they may be of some help if read in conjunction with the manual. If not, they have cost you nothing. I only fly fixed wing so there is no reference to those features specific to helicopters.
Oh, and for everyone who doesn't have an 8FG - but rather the 12FG, 12Z, or 14MZ - a lot of information still applies.
Again, Malcolm, top-shelf work!
Best Regards... Roger Parrett / Dayton / OH / USA