378

My Feedback: (4)

Since I'm going to be getting a plane of my own soon, I've been lurking the various aircraft forums 'round here, trying to soak up what knowledge I can in the hope I will postpone the inevitable first rekitting. During this lurking, I've noticed something odd, something I never see in the land of cars.

That something is the demonizing of 2.4ghz radios.

Over in the car world 2.4ghz is a godsend. It's absolutely reliable, brushed motors don't interfere with it like they do AM and FM(And neither do spark ignition engines), tracks can have more than six cars on track at any one time, we don't have to drill holes in the body and run antenna masts, and nitro guys don't need electronic failsafes anymore. It's nice, but I feel a little context is needed.

Our radio gear is beat on far harder than ya'll's is. For starters we stay within 25 feet of Mother Earth the entire time. This means our radio gear is subject to all sorts of abuse ya'll's isn't. I've killed plenty of servos by smacking into stuff, and even drowned one poor little S3003 because I had encased the entire chassis of my touring car except the engine and exhaust with snow. Some of us don't even have radio boxes, the poor little thing is just velcroed onto whatever flat chunk of car we can find. On top of that our radio boxes sometimes don't even give us room for the receiver itself without some dremeling, let alone room to put any significant foam padding. Compound that with the wild swings in engine RPM, and thus vibrations from that engine, and incredibly high G forces placed on the car as a result of the numerous tumbles, jumps(I wasn't lying when I said "Within 25 feet of mother earth" earlier in this paragraph, some crazy guys do indeed jump that high), bumps, barrel rolls, cart wheels and straight impacts we absorb every time we run, impacts that would turn an aircraft into a pile of sawdust and misc electronic debris, and you have a recipe for a dead receiver.

Then just to add insult to injury, and again due to space constraints, we feed them pathetic amounts of power. You guys would likely scoff at the idea of using four Duracells to power your radio gear, but that's what keeps my NTC3 in control every time I go do some donuts. Four lonely little Duracell AAs zip tied into a holder so they don't pop out at random, that's it. That's all that keeps my ballistic missile under control. I know I'm not alone, either, as most nitro RTRs still come with an alkaline holder. Everything from 1/12 touring cars on up to enormous 1/8 monster trucks. Even nice battery packs for cars are pathetic compared to plane gear. We're doing good if we can squeeze a 1700mah NiMH hump pack in our box. We don't have room for dual redundant A123/LiFE/LiPo rx batts, and we don't run singles of those chemistries either. Electric guys don't even run separate batteries, their radios are powered off the same pack that's also supplying the very hungry little motor moving the whole car(There's a voltage regulator built into car speed controllers for just this since car packs start a 7.2v and go from there), and even then NiMH is still the standard. A good, reliable, long lasting car Lipo is about 50 bucks, a NiMH is 15, LiFE aren't very popular because they give less power to the drive motor, and A123 is 100% unheardof. I myself didn't even know it existed until I started lurking the plane section at Tower.

Despite the abuse and starvation, however, car receivers rarely die, and when they do it's usually because they drowned. Literally drowned. Either that or there's a pole trying to occupy the space the receiver box used to occupy. We love 'em. We can't get enough of 'em. AM and FM car radios are nearly worthless as a result. Even RTRs are standard with 2.4 more often than they aren't, and this includes the entire spectrum of cars. Everything from 1/36 indoor stuff to enormous thirty pound gasoline buggies are packing a 2.4ghz radio, usually from the factory. There's even some RTRs that come with a 2.4ghz receiver but no transmitter, designed so you can just bind it straight to your existing one and be off to the races. Literally.

Despite the apparent indestructibility, I've seen quite a few plane guys insisting on staying with FM stuff, actively resisting the switchover. I've seen guys blaming 2.4ghz radios for crashes, glitches, runaways and other such shenanigans.

Why is that? Why are us car guys having nothing but pure joy from 2.4ghz equipment while plane guys have a subset dead set on resisting it and blaming every crash they have on it? Is plane gear designed much weaker than car gear or something? Lack of personal responsibility perhaps? Maybe us car guys are more likely to admit a dumb thumb error because said dumb thumb only costs us a few moments to flip the car back over? Maybe it's because we can only go about 100-200 yards away before we lose track of which end of the car is pointed at us, something even AM radios can easily handle?

As for me, I'm going straight to 2.4ghz with the first plane, and likely will have my cars converted before then. It is kinda disconcerting to watch my servos twitch and spazz as I attach my glow ignitor...stoopid AM radio...

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

I must say I have flown on 72Mhz for 33 years and as you have said, 2.4 has eliminated most of the interference issues if not all, for me. I will say that ground vehicles are closer to the Tx, so the signals are stronger. The only $20,000 RC car I ever saw was a Conley Viper with a miniature gasoline engine replica, that itself, cost $8000. Even then, it is much harder to kill than a $20,000 turbine jet going 200mph into the ground.

378

My Feedback: (4)

Yeah, tell me about it. I need some money so I can ditch my AM system. Every time I connect my glow ignitor I see both of my servos twitch, and they do it when I remove it as well. Thank god engine vibrations don't cause the same twitching while the ignitor is attached. It still bothers me and I've been using this receiver for six or seven years now. It works fine but that interference is always in the back of my mind, something I wouldn't have to worry about on 2.4.

True. We tend to lose track of which way it's pointed long before even the AM stuff is range limiting, and 2.4 reaches out way farther than that. Even the guys with the yard long 1/4 and 1/5 scale stuff aren't really taxing the range capabilities for the same reason.


Idunno...that Conley car was more of a scale replica than anything else. If it were to suddenly go into a death tumble it would likely be just as totalled as a turbine jet. Or hell a real car.


I see your point though. I have crashes every time I drive my NTC3 that would turn any plane into a pile of scrap materials. All I ever do is burp the throttle to get it unstuck if it landed right way up, flip it back over if it didn't, and that's that. One time I was flying around my driveway in second gear and lost control. Slammed on the brakes, but it still slid nose-first into a 65 pound chunk of iron at a good clip. I'd say 15MPH or so. No damage whatsoever, just bounced off a bit. Moved the iron three inches, too. Yet a crash like that involving a plane would likely destroy it, if not put it out of action for a few months while it gets some fuse repairs.

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

I found that when powering aircraft with large gasoline engines, there was more of a chance of RF noise that glitched 72Mhz PPM and PCM receivers. There was quite a bit of time spent figuring out the best route for antennas, using Shielded Wire, minimizing metal to metal contact and even carbon fiber pushrods rubbing on each other.

I started using 2.4 radios and all that disappeared. All that was left was the wind, weak batteries, and pilot error, if there was a problem.

I am sure that conscientious RC car modelers respect the rules regarding the correct frequencies for ground and air vehicles. One of the worries that flyers have, now, is that many are unloading quality 72Mhz aircraft radios in favor of 2.4 radios. We fear that these 72Mhz radios will be grabbed up by ground vehicle operators looking for a bargain in a high end radio, and not respect the rules regarding not using air frequencies. This could put many aircraft at risk, if the pilots are still using 72Mhz stuff.

We have the same problem with newbies purchasing Park Flyer aircraft and using 72Mhz radios without paying attention to Frequency Control.

Do you guys police those operators of ground vehicles and advise them to play by the rules? Do you think there is a problem in that regard? Cars do not fly above the trees, but aircraft do.

rmh

I also have cars - Zcars - 1/24 cars and 1/10 cars
The Zcars with no 2.4 are worthless glitch so b's
I swapped a LOSI 1.24 truck to 2.4 and brushless -
The 4 w drive slider street 1/10 cars are 2.4 from the get go They are all Spektrum dx2 tx setups the setups and programming- almost same as my DX8's!

378

My Feedback: (4)

HPI explicitly demands you not use an AM radio with the gasoline Baja 5B/5T because of the ignition system sending out clouds of RF interference. They come stock with 2.4ghz radios now, back when they came out AM was still popular so HPI loaded 'em with FM instead.


They also demand the 5B/5T use a receiver pack and include a suitable one + charger with RTR examples.


For the most part we stick to our own stuff. 99% of car guys opt for a pistol grip radio, and pistol grip is the standard for RTRs, so that's what is usually chosen. I'm an oddball in this regard, preferring stick radios, but I'll get to my own choices later.

ROAR handles rulesetting for RC car racing. They specify we use equipment for cars and will not allow a car using aircraft gear to operate on track. As for bashers it's hit and miss seeing as there is no ruling body governing what we use to annihilate the flower bed at three in the morning, but 9 times out of 10 they're on 27am since that's what came with RTRs for eons. Newer RTRs have 2.4ghz stuff. At any rate cars are usually controlled by pistol grip radios so that's what 99.9% of car guys seek when buying a new one. I'm sure there's a couple that run old 72mhz aircraft gear, but they're likely running things that need four channels. Either that or they prefer sticks over wheels and are getting fed up with the pathetic surface selection of stick radios.

Most cars need only two channels, many monster trucks needing a third switched channel to handle reverse functions, so interest in plane radios is limited. An example of a car that could use a plane radio would be one of those Tamiya semi trucks, since on them you have the following that can be controlled:

Throttle/brake
Steering
Gear selection(Manually shifted three speed!)
Lights
Fifth wheel
Trailer landing gear


You can see how some guys would go for a plane radio to control one of those things. They just don't make pistol grips with that many channels. Tank ops are another group that likes four channel stick radios because left stick = left track right stick = right track, so they're another group liable to snap up a used, cheap 72mhz plane radio.


As for me....Nah. I won't run 72mhz gear on the ground. I could get away with it without shooting any aircraft down, though, being that the only life for a quarter mile in any direction is cattle, the farmers raising those cattle having no interest whatsoever in RC, and their farms extend well beyond radio range. But still I won't. I do want to get one transmitter for all my models, though, and that will include both ground and air vehicles. But it will be 2.4ghz, so I won't be shooting any aircraft down because I want to spin donuts with the rally car.


Specifically a Futaba 4YF 2.4ghz. I'll probably swap the left and right gimbals so I can have a spring loaded left stick and retain the ratchet for aircraft. Never flown a plane in my life so learning a nonstandard layout will be no harder than learning the standard one, but I'm used to using the left stick for throttle/brake in cars and that needs to be self-centering.


Edit: And don't tell car guys cars don't fly over trees. Some guy is going to try to jump a tree with a monster truck when they hear that. I've already seen a 1/8 buggy jumped lengthways over an 80 passenger school bus, and I've seen people jump Tmaxxes and MGTs over their house.