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When is it time to change a Tx battery ?

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Old 08-21-2011, 11:56 AM
  #26  
Rodney
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Default RE: When is it time to change a Tx battery ?

I read comments where someone claims a LiPo exploded. Nearly impossible to explode, catch on fire?Yes, but explode, NO.
Old 08-21-2011, 12:08 PM
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Default RE: When is it time to change a Tx battery ?

I velcro strap them into the aircraft, plug them into the switch harness, and go fly. I take them out to charge, once a week. I install them in my Tx and take them out to charge, once a month. Never a problem.
Old 08-21-2011, 01:36 PM
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Default RE: When is it time to change a Tx battery ?

Burn down a house ?
absolutely
who was at fault ?
the owner
absolutely
True story - I sold the plane to a guy who put everything on charge (incorrectly) and left the house.
Old 08-21-2011, 02:12 PM
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Default RE: When is it time to change a Tx battery ?


ORIGINAL: rmh

Burn down a house ?
absolutely
who was at fault ?
the owner
absolutely
True story - I sold the plane to a guy who put everything on charge (incorrectly) and left the house.
I have two 170ah 6v Energizer Golf Cart batteries, in series, in the back of my van, with two FMA chargers connected. They are charging constantly while I am flying. I have several large electrics that run on 50v (two 5S 5000mah and one 2S 5000mah in series). I charge two 5S on one charger and one 2S on the other. I have Turnigy 8080 motors in the aircraft that draw 140a at 6500w.

I charge at the field and going to and from the field. There are several others in my club that have more exotic setups with four Golf Cart batteries or 2000w generators and 60w power supplies, in trailers.

No issues with LiPos here.
Old 08-21-2011, 02:45 PM
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Default RE: When is it time to change a Tx battery ?

Yup I also have run power packs that will pull a wagon.
and so far only one 13 ga adapter instantly destroyed

That does not mean that LiPos will not cause a fire
they will -
I am not afraid of em -but I respect em.
I don't poo poo fire possibilities simply because those who ask ,typically have no experience with em and should be aware of the care needed to prevent a problem.
Do a dead short on your 5000 ma pack- tell me it does not feel like an" explosion."
I see more n more newbies buying multi KW setups because they seem simple n easy-
I also ran some big A123 multi packs - these will blow the end off a wire - but no fire except the wire . If your group has no problems and never had any LiPo problems they are very careful .
I hope they pass "care and feeding of LiPos" on the guys who ask.
Old 08-21-2011, 04:04 PM
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ORIGINAL: rmh

Yup I also have run power packs that will pull a wagon.
and so far only one 13 ga adapter instantly destroyed

That does not mean that LiPos will not cause a fire
they will -
I am not afraid of em -but I respect em.
I don't poo poo fire possibilities simply because those who ask ,typically have no experience with em and should be aware of the care needed to prevent a problem.
Do a dead short on your 5000 ma pack- tell me it does not feel like an'' explosion.''
I see more n more newbies buying multi KW setups because they seem simple n easy-
I also ran some big A123 multi packs - these will blow the end off a wire - but no fire except the wire . If your group has no problems and never had any LiPo problems they are very careful .
I hope they pass ''care and feeding of LiPos'' on the guys who ask.
I did not mean to dismiss the possibility of fire. I saw a LiPo fire in a trailer full of expensive jets that was charging unattended. This was at a Superman Jer Rally some years ago. There is a nationaly known RC electric guru who had a LiPo fire in his home, also while charging unattended. This also was some years ago.

I use 10ga 1000 strand wire and 6.5mm CC Bullet connectors on anything that draws more than 100a. I use 3/8" plastic tubing over all the male Bullet connectors. I made one mistake, early on, and touched the wrong two connectors. There was a loud Snap, the two connectors were partially melted, and my hand was Black. No injuries or damage to the batteries or ESC. I have modified my handling procedures and it has never happened again.

If a Lithium battery is dropped or damaged, ot goes in a Fire Safe for 24 hrs.

We have had no LiPo incidents in many years, and then, only a few.
Old 08-21-2011, 05:16 PM
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Default RE: When is it time to change a Tx battery ?

It probably is impractical to monitor the pack during charging if you have 6-8 packs. Even with ultiPle chargers it will take 1-2 hours. The good practice is to leave the packs on a concrete surface and assure no flammable stuff closely around it during charging.

A quality charger is a must to help prevent over-charging and thus possible fires. The FMA 10s have served me well for more than a year. The voltage per cell is close to each in the range of 0.01v.
Old 08-21-2011, 06:02 PM
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Default RE: When is it time to change a Tx battery ?


ORIGINAL: nonstoprc

It probably is impractical to monitor the pack during charging if you have 6-8 packs. Even with ultiPle chargers it will take 1-2 hours. The good practice is to leave the packs on a concrete surface and assure no flammable stuff closely around it during charging.

A quality charger is a must to help prevent over-charging and thus possible fires. The FMA 10s have served me well for more than a year. The voltage per cell is close to each in the range of 0.01v.
It takes me 45 minutes to charge two 5S 5000mah LiPo cells using my setup, which is limited to 10a (2C charge rate). If I had an FMA Powerlab 8 charger, a 1000W generator, and a 60a power supply, I could charge at 20a (4C) and cut the time in half. My batteries are rated for a 4C charge rate. The new FMA 10S can charge up to 15a (3C in my case). Unlike NiMh, which do not like a faster charge rate, these batteries can handle the fast charge and still remain cool.

You can see how the newer technology chargers and improved battery chemistry saves a ton of time with very little risk.
Old 08-21-2011, 06:53 PM
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Default RE: When is it time to change a Tx battery ?

I have 6 10cell 5000mah packs and my local fly buddy has 10 such packs. Go figure the time needed to charge them even with a power lab. To make is practical to ready these packs in a matter of a coule of hours, you need multiple chargers.
Old 08-21-2011, 10:27 PM
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Default RE: When is it time to change a Tx battery ?


ORIGINAL: nonstoprc

I have 6 10cell 5000mah packs and my local fly buddy has 10 such packs. Go figure the time needed to charge them even with a power lab. To make is practical to ready these packs in a matter of a coule of hours, you need multiple chargers.
I understand. The biggest promoter of electric flight, in our club, has at least 6 chargers running at any one time. He had to upgrade from a 1000w Honda generator to a 2000W, in his 7x12 Thule trailer. His son flies competitively, for Futaba, at a national level. They have a ton of electrics. He also drives a huge motorhome with an 8000w diesel generator on the front. He made a Charging Station out of two 1/2" copper pipes and leaves it out at our electric meets for anyone to clamp their chargers to.

If you are going to fly electrics, you need chargers. We try and power our electrics with the same type of batteries so that we can use combinations of them, or individual packs, on any aircraft. For example, my 20lb H9 Carden Yak runs on 12S (two 5S and one 2S). My Royal P26 Peashooter runs on 10S (two 5S). My Eflite Extra 300 runs on one 5S. I can charge two 5S packs at a time, on each 10S charger. It depends upon how many packs I bring to the field as to how long I have to wait between flights, but I am constantly charging all day, but I fly when I want. If I used two 6S packs, for 12S, I could only charge one pack per charger unless I bought the Powerlab 8.

One of our club members has a World Models 44% Ultimate running 11S 5000mah 3P. That is 9 packs just in one aircraft. He had to limit the voltage because he only has a CC 160 HV ESC and does not want to spend $1000 on a 300a ESC. He could easily draw 250a with 12S 3P packs.

There was a full size Ultralite, at Oshkosh this year, electric powered, with 86 Zippy packs. I wonder what he uses for chargers?

I will be buying a generator soon and extra chargers
Old 08-22-2011, 02:02 AM
  #36  
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Default RE: When is it time to change a Tx battery ?

If JR, Spektrum and Futaba wanted us to use LiPo's, LiFe packs in the Tx, don't you think they would provide them ? Bit old school but personally believe they (JR, Spektrum and Futaba) know more about their equipment than we are ever likely to know. So we have to charge the Tx before we go fly, big deal. Been flying for over 36 years now and always "charge the night before" and cycle the packs every 6 months or so. A bit of routine maintenance goes a long way to providing hassle free flying.
Old 08-22-2011, 03:58 AM
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Default RE: When is it time to change a Tx battery ?


ORIGINAL: rogera

If JR, Spektrum and Futaba wanted us to use LiPo's, LiFe packs in the Tx, don't you think they would provide them ? Bit old school but personally believe they (JR, Spektrum and Futaba) know more about their equipment than we are ever likely to know. So we have to charge the Tx before we go fly, big deal. Been flying for over 36 years now and always ''charge the night before'' and cycle the packs every 6 months or so. A bit of routine maintenance goes a long way to providing hassle free flying.
That is like saying "If GOD had wanted us to fly, he would have given us wings". When it comes to the reasons why certain manufacturers do not use Lithium Tx batteries, it is many times about Cost and Support, not what is best or easier to use. Hitec, for example, offers LiPos for their new Aurora 9.

If you were using Lithium batteries, on a regular basis, like I do, you would appreciate the time savings and the ease of use. I fly every day in the summer and I leave everything in my van. I don't want to spend hours every night charging my aircraft and Tx's. I use two Tx's and bring at least 3 aircraft to the field.
Old 08-22-2011, 05:08 AM
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Default RE: When is it time to change a Tx battery ?

There are plenty of examples of how electric flying has grown-
Most of our flyers are casual flyers with a few contest oriented flyers - The Honda generators are the favorite.
My own tx choice is still the DX8 tx with NIMH/ENELOOPS-which last a few days easily - the new design tx just sip current -some guy do the Lipos tho matter of whim.
For LiPos I just charge em up during the week and take along a drawer full. flying is a relaxed mix of gliders - 3D and precision maneuvers once done with 80-160 cc gassers and pattern birds .
The remainder of the time is spent socializing.-no charging
Something for everyone now.
bad weather brings out the bind n fly Vapors etc..
how times change
Old 08-22-2011, 05:13 AM
  #39  
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Default RE: When is it time to change a Tx battery ?


ORIGINAL: BuschBarber


ORIGINAL: nonstoprc

I have 6 10cell 5000mah packs and my local fly buddy has 10 such packs. Go figure the time needed to charge them even with a power lab. To make is practical to ready these packs in a matter of a coule of hours, you need multiple chargers.
I understand. The biggest promoter of electric flight, in our club, has at least 6 chargers running at any one time. He had to upgrade from a 1000w Honda generator to a 2000W, in his 7x12 Thule trailer. His son flies competitively, for Futaba, at a national level. They have a ton of electrics. He also drives a huge motorhome with an 8000w diesel generator on the front. He made a Charging Station out of two 1/2'' copper pipes and leaves it out at our electric meets for anyone to clamp their chargers to.

If you are going to fly electrics, you need chargers. We try and power our electrics with the same type of batteries so that we can use combinations of them, or individual packs, on any aircraft. For example, my 20lb H9 Carden Yak runs on 12S (two 5S and one 2S). My Royal P26 Peashooter runs on 10S (two 5S). My Eflite Extra 300 runs on one 5S. I can charge two 5S packs at a time, on each 10S charger. It depends upon how many packs I bring to the field as to how long I have to wait between flights, but I am constantly charging all day, but I fly when I want. If I used two 6S packs, for 12S, I could only charge one pack per charger unless I bought the Powerlab 8.

One of our club members has a World Models 44% Ultimate running 11S 5000mah 3P. That is 9 packs just in one aircraft. He had to limit the voltage because he only has a CC 160 HV ESC and does not want to spend $1000 on a 300a ESC. He could easily draw 250a with 12S 3P packs.

There was a full size Ultralite, at Oshkosh this year, electric powered, with 86 Zippy packs. I wonder what he uses for chargers?

I will be buying a generator soon and extra chargers
I used to bring the chargers to the field to charge the empty packs, and found bring extra charged packs to the field is more convenient. The packs probably are less stressed if charged less frequently.

My 6 packs have been in the 2011 seasons for a total of 250 flights. Not sign of degraded performance on a Neu F3A motor yet.

Just wonder what motor you use on the 20lb Carden Yak.


Old 08-22-2011, 08:14 AM
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Default RE: When is it time to change a Tx battery ?


ORIGINAL: rmh

There are plenty of examples of how electric flying has grown-
Most of our flyers are casual flyers with a few contest oriented flyers - The Honda generators are the favorite.
My own tx choice is still the DX8 tx with NIMH/ENELOOPS-which last a few days easily - the new design tx just sip current -some guy do the Lipos tho matter of whim.
For LiPos I just charge em up during the week and take along a drawer full. flying is a relaxed mix of gliders - 3D and precision maneuvers once done with 80-160 cc gassers and pattern birds .
The remainder of the time is spent socializing.-no charging
Something for everyone now.
bad weather brings out the bind n fly Vapors etc..
how times change
If I did not have such good luck with Tx LiPos, Eneloops would be my first choice.

I like to socialize, as well. It only takes me a couple of minutes to put the batteries on the charger after each flight. I do not stand by the chargers the whole time. I do not buy too many extra batteries because the technology changes every year.
Old 08-22-2011, 08:18 AM
  #41  
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Default RE: When is it time to change a Tx battery ?

ORIGINAL: BuschBarber


ORIGINAL: rmh

There are plenty of examples of how electric flying has grown-
Most of our flyers are casual flyers with a few contest oriented flyers - The Honda generators are the favorite.
My own tx choice is still the DX8 tx with NIMH/ENELOOPS-which last a few days easily - the new design tx just sip current -some guy do the Lipos tho matter of whim.
For LiPos I just charge em up during the week and take along a drawer full. flying is a relaxed mix of gliders - 3D and precision maneuvers once done with 80-160 cc gassers and pattern birds .
The remainder of the time is spent socializing.-no charging
Something for everyone now.
bad weather brings out the bind n fly Vapors etc..
how times change
If I did not have such good luck with Tx LiPos, Eneloops would be my first choice.

I like to socialize, as well. It only takes me a couple of minutes to put the batteries on the charger after each flight. I do not stand by the chargers the whole time. I do not buy too many extra batteries because the technology changes every year.
I have a great deal on some 15 c batteries-480 ma - slightly used -
on second thought -I will just give em away
Old 08-22-2011, 08:43 AM
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Default RE: When is it time to change a Tx battery ?


ORIGINAL: nonstoprc


ORIGINAL: BuschBarber


ORIGINAL: nonstoprc

I have 6 10cell 5000mah packs and my local fly buddy has 10 such packs. Go figure the time needed to charge them even with a power lab. To make is practical to ready these packs in a matter of a coule of hours, you need multiple chargers.
I understand. The biggest promoter of electric flight, in our club, has at least 6 chargers running at any one time. He had to upgrade from a 1000w Honda generator to a 2000W, in his 7x12 Thule trailer. His son flies competitively, for Futaba, at a national level. They have a ton of electrics. He also drives a huge motorhome with an 8000w diesel generator on the front. He made a Charging Station out of two 1/2'' copper pipes and leaves it out at our electric meets for anyone to clamp their chargers to.

If you are going to fly electrics, you need chargers. We try and power our electrics with the same type of batteries so that we can use combinations of them, or individual packs, on any aircraft. For example, my 20lb H9 Carden Yak runs on 12S (two 5S and one 2S). My Royal P26 Peashooter runs on 10S (two 5S). My Eflite Extra 300 runs on one 5S. I can charge two 5S packs at a time, on each 10S charger. It depends upon how many packs I bring to the field as to how long I have to wait between flights, but I am constantly charging all day, but I fly when I want. If I used two 6S packs, for 12S, I could only charge one pack per charger unless I bought the Powerlab 8.

One of our club members has a World Models 44% Ultimate running 11S 5000mah 3P. That is 9 packs just in one aircraft. He had to limit the voltage because he only has a CC 160 HV ESC and does not want to spend $1000 on a 300a ESC. He could easily draw 250a with 12S 3P packs.

There was a full size Ultralite, at Oshkosh this year, electric powered, with 86 Zippy packs. I wonder what he uses for chargers?

I will be buying a generator soon and extra chargers
I used to bring the chargers to the field to charge the empty packs, and found bring extra charged packs to the field is more convenient. The packs probably are less stressed if charged less frequently.

My 6 packs have been in the 2011 seasons for a total of 250 flights. Not sign of degraded performance on a Neu F3A motor yet.

Just wonder what motor you use on the 20lb Carden Yak.



If you are talking NiMh or NiCad, fast charging at the field all the time does tend to shorten their life. I charge my LiPos at 2C whether I am at home or the field. The batteries are rated for a 4C charge, but my 10S can only pit out 10a. They do not even get warm with a 2C charge. That is one of the advantages of LiPos. They charge quickly and do not get stressed.

I use a Turnigy 8080 motor and a CC 160 HV ICE ESC. It swings a 26x10 wood prop at 7500rpm, in the air.
Old 08-22-2011, 10:48 AM
  #43  
Ed
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Default RE: When is it time to change a Tx battery ?

What's the big deal in having to charge my Tx, and Rx before going to the field ? I've been doing it for over 50 years. Preping for a day at the field is an enjoyable thing !

ed
Old 08-22-2011, 01:57 PM
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Default RE: When is it time to change a Tx battery ?


ORIGINAL: Ed

What's the big deal in having to charge my Tx, and Rx before going to the field ? I've been doing it for over 50 years. Preping for a day at the field is an enjoyable thing !

ed
Like any hobby, we do it because we enjoy it. If you enjoy chatging, then that is great.

I enjoy flying more than building. I started flying U Control in 1956. It was build and fly from then until 1978, when I bought my first RC radio. Eventually, when good ARF's came out, I stopped building.

I play Golf, Volleyball, and Softball, all summer. I play Volleyball and I bowl, all winter. The rest of the time, I fly


I go flying on a moments notice,. My aircraft stay in my van. I bring out 3 or 4 aircraft to fly. I don't like having to wait hours to charge when LiPos are a much simpler alternative. My batteries do not self discharge, so if I wait a day or a week, my batteries are ready to go. Recharge is 30min, if necessary. I never have to wait, to fly.
Old 08-22-2011, 03:08 PM
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Default RE: When is it time to change a Tx battery ?

" My aircraft stay in my van. I bring out 3 or 4 aircraft to fly. " .... Perhaps, this is the key. The owner of giant scale aircraft, for example, is not satisfied, or comfortable with just using Lipos. Whereas the man flying flippyfoams, and other small size planes has a lot less to lose. My van will only hold one giant scale aircraft, and it's Nicds, or Nimh's gets charged using a peak charger, on the way to the field. Ohh, what a terrible burden this is.
Old 08-22-2011, 03:50 PM
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ORIGINAL: Ed

'' My aircraft stay in my van. I bring out 3 or 4 aircraft to fly. '' .... Perhaps, this is the key. The owner of giant scale aircraft, for example, is not satisfied, or comfortable with just using Lipos. Whereas the man flying flippyfoams, and other small size planes has a lot less to lose. My van will only hold one giant scale aircraft, and it's Nicds, or Nimh's gets charged using a peak charger, on the way to the field. Ohh, what a terrible burden this is.
I like your quotes in RED.

You obviously did not read much of this thread. I do not fly "FlippyFoam" aircraft. I like giant scale. I have a Chevy express 2500 van. I carry a 89" H9 Carden Yak, an 84" Aeroworks Katana, a 1/6 scale H9 P47-150, a 67" Royal P26 Peashooter, and an Eflite Extra 300. All are electric except the P47, which has a Fuji 32ei gasser. It has a Rx battery and an Ignition battery. The Extra uses the BEC in the ESC, but everything else uses separate Rx batteries.

As I have said, I only need to charge the Rx batteries once a week and then it is only a 30min charge. You aren't going to get much of a charge with NiCads or NiMh, while driving to the field unless you are just topping off.

I have been there and done that for 30 years until LiPos and LiFe evolved. Four years of usung these batteries Safely and Effectively has proven to me their worth.
Old 08-22-2011, 04:37 PM
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Default RE: When is it time to change a Tx battery ?

The best setups are truly in the eye of the beholder -
The casual flyers (the backbone of the industry) typically fly smaller stuff -(once it was the .40 glo setup)- now it is the -ready for this?
injected molded EPP foam stuff -
It is the future - easy to do super light and repairable
Do I buy it ?
you bet
Can I do big scratch build stuff-
you bet .- been there a lot.

I always wanted the "perfect one piece model "- now I can buy one for relative peanuts.
Radios which don't need frequency flags and batteries which when charged, can be flown a week later ,
It's a wonderful time to be flying
Anyway Lipos are as good as it gets for today's flying - just pay attention to the rules for safe usage

Old 08-22-2011, 06:05 PM
  #48  
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Default RE: When is it time to change a Tx battery ?

I used to charge overnight before Lipo`s. I do fly some electric`s and they are mostly grab and go at a moments notice. No planing for next day. I started using the Rhino transmitter 2620 lo-discharge pack from HK in my older Futaba 72 ,7 channel just to try it for my electric planes. After a year it has been great. It stays at 12.3 at full charge and i charge it when it gets down to 10.5. About every 2 months or so. It`s not that i am against old school factory batteries. How many times you didn`t have time to wait to charge a battery to go fly right away unplanned? I can do that now when i want. I liked it so much, i just got one 2 months ago for my new 10cap 2.4 Futaba. for my 50cc gas and other electric planes. My opinion.
Old 08-23-2011, 07:03 AM
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Default RE: When is it time to change a Tx battery ?


ORIGINAL: Valve floater

I used to charge overnight before Lipo`s. I do fly some electric`s and they are mostly grab and go at a moments notice. No planing for next day. I started using the Rhino transmitter 2620 lo-discharge pack from HK in my older Futaba 72 ,7 channel just to try it for my electric planes. After a year it has been great. It stays at 12.3 at full charge and i charge it when it gets down to 10.5. About every 2 months or so. It`s not that i am against old school factory batteries. How many times you didn`t have time to wait to charge a battery to go fly right away unplanned? I can do that now when i want. I liked it so much, i just got one 2 months ago for my new 10cap 2.4 Futaba. for my 50cc gas and other electric planes. My opinion.
Those old tx really slopped up the current - almost as bad as a JR Galaxy- 2 hours was tops on a charge .
My new DX8's would run on AAA ENELOOPS cells very nicely unless I wanted to fly for over 10 hours constant flying.
I think next generation of modern txs will use a mercury button.
well not exactly

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