Howard

My Feedback: (55)

I would like to begin a thread where folks can make comments about the JR 12X now that the manual is available to download and read. I would like to focus on programming, features, comparison to competitors similar products, and hadware/software technology - not to limit the discussion if it needs to expand except hopefully, it will not move to a Ford vs Cheve kind of thing.

I was surprised that the programming and features seem almost identical to the 9303 except for the additional channels. The manual is light years better than the 9303 manual and can be readily used in most cases as a new and improved 9303 manual. Anyone with a 9303 will feel very much at home and will be able to immediately begin programming. I am re-reading the Futaba 12 FG manual to make comparisons between the two radios. Fellow modelers - please jump in.

Howard

Zeeb

My Feedback: (41)

Howard you're much more ambitious than I...

I downloaded the manuals right after I posted the link on your other thread, but I've not read them yet. It is nice to hear the operation and programming are similar to the X9303 as I had a bit of a learning curve there. I'd been flying Futaba radios prior to my DX7 which I bought to play with while waiting for my X9303.

I'll subscribe to the thread and chime in when I get something to contribute or ask others about.

rmh

Instruction manuals are a pet peeve of mine
Most simply suck-at best
the "Why" is that typically they are written by the techie who designed the system -and he writes it for those who know what he knows
Big problem
This new manual has a Quick Start and an Applications Section -which help a LOT! stuf such as how to properly condition the TX batteries which too many ignore -
a feature called Balance -also handy for those who have trouble setting up two ailerons per flying surface - it allows a "matching of master to slave servo" type relatioship - interesting.
I just mechanically match things but I find this technique is lost on many big bird flyers.
So far I like the manual -especially the addendums mentioned above.
Reading and comprhension are very subjective matters-
The more you explain - the more some people loose track of what is being described.
It's a tough call-
The gaffes many first users of 2.4 pulled , show just how reading and comprehension is almost a lost art-
note the military's use of "funnybooks " to train troops.
(put me in coach -I don't smoke )

Thud_Driver

My Feedback: (1)

I'm disappointed. I didn't see any really significant programming improvements over the 9303/10X other than the extra channels. Well, actually, there was the 4 servo wing and the ability to trim just center or center+end points.

They did fix the Timer issue with the 9303, but for whatever reason, they couldn't seem to get rid of the menu numbering.

I also noticed there were mentions of switch assignablity but never saw a picture or listing of what switches you could assign something to. Other than than that, this manual is better than the 9303 manual which was mostly examples rather than descriptions.

They didn't fix the trim problem with mated channels and still recommend not to use it.

It still didn't look like they gave you a Pos 2 programing option for a 3 positon switch in a mix.

Other than the channels & display, they still haven't caught up to the 15 year old Stylus with Acro card.

xcellheli

My Feedback: (1)

After reading the manual it is nothing but a glorified 9303. What a disapointment. Even the screen is the same size as the 9303. The manual is much better then the Futaba ones, and the balance function is easier for matching servos then Futaba has, but that is the end. There is no flash card, no way to update software that I saw. Very few graphs on the functions and no lithium batteries. Of course I am biased since I fly Futaba, but I always encourage competition and it is beginning to look like Futaba still doesn't have much in the high end radios. Of course the price is as higher then both Futaba 12's so JR wins there.

rmh

I never found a need for those little flash cards- I guess I don't fiddle around enough

Howard

My Feedback: (55)

Dick,

The flash card can be used to update the radio software/firmware without having to send it back for servicing. Less wear and tear on the radio and no down time.

Zeeb

My Feedback: (41)

Well the thing comes with a 50 model memory and the JR DataSafe so it does have a computer interface. Whether or not it's setup to allow a firmware update from that connection remains to be seen I guess.

On the other hand if you get the software right to begin with, you won't have to update it all the time and then find out the last update had a bug in it like the Futaba boys did with the initial release of the software to make 2.4 modules work....

xcellheli

My Feedback: (1)

Futaba has on occasion fixed bugs with software fixes, but they have also added core functionality. Since I bought my 14mz they have added phase shift to operate JR receivers, new swashplate configurations, several mixes for both airplanes and heli's and new functionality for new gyro's, etc. Anyone who thinks this is a trivial feature has their head in the sand. In addition to updating the software, the card allows easy back up of a plane while at the field without bringing a laptop. It also allows me to store photographs of my planes and sound files so that the radio can call the IMAC routine for me. It is just plain cool!

Dick,
You should try fiddling a little more, you just might like what you find.

Troy Newman

By the way i looked over the manual, and got to touch one today and spent some time with it on a clear model. Mark Leesbergs at the EFX thing here in at the Phoenix dome.

Its way more than both the 10X and the 9303. Some notes.

These are not all the pluses but some major ones.

-8 program mixes with 5 being curve types. This is a big plus. The 10X has 8 mixes but on 3 curves. The 9303 only has 6 mixes and 2 are curves.

-The improved quad bearing gimbals are awesome. The feel is the best out there of any radio. I still feel the 10X and 9303 gimbals feel better than the other high end radios. Plus the Magnesium case gives a very solid feel when moving the gimbals. The 12X gimbals are just like butter! Very smooth and feel awesome. The end points are extremely well defined and there is no more flex on the gimbal assembly when you hold it hard over...I think these gimbals alone are what make the radio feel so good when flying. After all the programming is there...the stick are what you wiggle.

-The 4 aileron servo wing along with the Balance feature is really cool. You can setup all 4 servos with 7 point curves so that they track perfectly through the entire range. Its almost like having a 7 pt ATV mix. This is a really powerful feature for aerobatic models.

-Balance feature is way cool its like a 7pt curve match box...applies above to the 4 aileron setup but It also works on other mated channels SO dual rudder servo, dual elevator servos to match up the throws perfectly along a 7pt curve....Very powerful and built in...rather than using up one of the valuable curve mixes...

-The built in mixing for the R>AE mix is really detailed and you can setup Flight modes to change values or create switches, or even better you can create stick position switches, that activate these mixes or changes. This is a cool feature for the aerobatic guys again not having to use up a program mix to get your knife edge mixing fine tuned....The 10X has this but the 12 expands on it with the more options.

-Stick position switches. YES this is one that I really like. This is one I always liked on the Futaba radios. You can create the same thing on the 10X using the curve type program mixes but you only have 3 of them...The 12X has the built in function so no need to use the curve type mixes and yet you still have extra curve type mixes over the 10. This is a big one for me personally. Create a switch that toggles at a certain point on a stick. If I saw it correctly in the radio there are 4 of these switches that can be setup...plus you already have the option from before of using the throttle stick as a switch like on the 9303 and 10X. This one again is a super powerful feature that has huge possibilities and no other JR TX offers this function.

-Switch assignability...it brings up a picture of the TX and you scroll through the switches and pick the one you want for the function. Its easy no remember the switch name or the Alpha code of the switch...just look at the screen and scroll through. Its hard to see in the photo in the manual but in person its awesome to assign the switches. You can just scroll through them, or use the switches name.

-The screen is the same size as the 10X its a 10X case with changes. It was mentioned it was the same screen as the 9303 its not its the 10X screen just not a touch screen. But it offers all the menus on the screen at the same time so you don't have to page through to find the ones you want.You can quickly roll over to it.

-Servos speed changes on the In and out part of the servo. So you can use like gear doors, Open fast on the way down but the gear are slow....the gear go fast up and the doors slowly behind...YOu can also play with feature in other areas...flaps...down slowly but up quickly...Again super powerful for scale applications. There are other possible options here....have a aux channel move fast to its position but come back slowly...or a throttle that throttles up slowly and smoothly yet when you chop it fast the servo moves on the down stroke fast.

-Flaps and Spoiler trims..yes the 9303 has these but the ones on the sides of the gimbals are easy to get to and use, yet you can use them for other things like the timers, and snap buttons and other fetaures...these become switches and you can pick them.

-Pitch curves for Variable pitch setups and allows you to mess with throttle curves and pitch curves together to tune the setup...realize there are coming VPP setups someday for the bigger models too. Remember the photos and video of that guy with the DA100 on VPP and also think about the possibility with turbine/turbo props.

-Timers started and stopped on the Stick position switches 3 timers...count up, count down and integral timer. You can tell them independently where to start and stop. This is a nice feature that JR has not had before. From I think I saw these can be selected on switches and possible stick position switches for starting and stopping the timers.

LST trim function is also a neat new feature. This is one that can be used by lots of the Scale guys and also the aerobatic pilots.

-Warnings....you can setup warnings so that if a stick or a switch is not in the proper position it will warn you on radio start up. This is cool for like electrics...to make sure its at low throttle...even though most ESC's won't arm if its above idle...I have had some of the cheaper ones see 3-4 clicks of throttle stick as idle....and arm there....The warning functions can let you know when you turn your TX on before you activate the RX. Plus you have other warnings you can setup...think like flaps down warning or maybe you want a gear switch warning

-Flight mode names...Again cool. On my pattern models I use a Fly, Spin, Snap modes I can name them this...so I don't have to remember the number when adjusting a DR or a mix value in a given flight mode number just look on the screen and see the flight mode name.

These are just some highlights. of what I saw and played with. I'm very well versed in the 10X and 9303...while the menus look very 9303 the meat and potatoes behind them are more substantial.

Like I said I played with it today....and its very easy to get through....and when you start drilling down into the functions they have some big powerful improvements over the current 10X with the easy programming of the 9303...The thing is looking at the menus its simple....and the feature don't jump off the screen because they are there all on one menu screen when you list them.

I really like it...but then I'm bias...It keeps the same solid platform of the 10X and builds on it...the functionality is a big time step in my opinion...Especially for what I use in a radio. The big thing I like is the Mate functions and the way it works. The 9303 was the first to do this..and yes its a really advanced feature for that class of radio...but the 12X takes a step further with the balance function, and the way it can mate things up...Its really a powerful tool that gets lost in the shuffle...just because the 9303 went above and beyond when it introduced the concept. Well the 12X refines it further and gives it more capability beyond what is offered in the 9 channel.


Looking at a manual can be a little decieving....Especially because the JR radios are so easy to setup and program...the manual doesn't have much to say on a given function its very self explanatory. Since its so easy to setup and do the manual doesn't highlight the big improvements...just treats them as another function. Once setup a model in it you'll be able to see the differences in it. Thats what I did today with Mark's radio.

I'll admit I'm bias but I found it interesting that people didn't notice these above features. These are just some of them. The heli, and sailplane setups are also expanded quite a bit too. My understanding is the sailplane setups are just killer. Oh yea...this is a top of the line radio with all three model types. Another good improvement.

No it doesn't get you a cup of coffee or play your latest MP3 but I want to fly and setup my models with it and it goes above and beyond by a big margin over the 10X. Just my opinion but then again I tend to use lots of these features. The guy with a 4 channel sport model might not appreciate the detail this radio brings to the refining your setup and functionality. I have used my 10'S for many many years...I can make them do just about anything. Well the 12X gives me better ways to do some things, and gives me easier control over other setup features. I think once people get their hands on it and use it for a model they will really see the simple elegance of it. Its really cool how simple they made many of these complicated functions. That is what JR has always done. Just because the screen at first glance looks like a 9303 doesn't mean the tools are not there to back up the status of being the flagship radio system.




Troy Newman
Team JR

rmh

I missed that one !
Never occurred to me My radios -all the 10 series and all the new 2.4 never saw servicing -except for one touch screen I got wet -ruined it.

PJ_TankPilot

I just read the section for the Warning function.
I want it but doubt that I will pay 1500 USD to get it.

GBR2

My Feedback: (1)

This is a nice radio and the feature list is impressive but not that radically beyond the 9303. I wish the 9303 had certain of the amenities of the 12X such as the timer flexibility but the $1500 price is really hard to swallow when the Futaba 12FG has pretty much everything the 12X has for $500 less plus the flexibility to upload new features via the flash card. If this had been closer to $1200 I'd probably go with the 12X just because I've always liked JR's programming and I already own a 9303 but $1500 is a bridge to far.

meridianflyer

Wow, the 12x really seems to have it all. I will admit I am bias also. Own the9303 2.4, and it is an outstanding radio. $1500 bones is pretty tough to swallow. My flying skills do not warrant this high end radio, but glad to here thta the 9303 comes close

aviti

My Feedback: (54)

I have already seen the 12X advertised for 1399. That's only $200 more than the 12FG. I figure I'll own the transmitter for at least 5 years (my 10X is 5yrs old now). That works out to $40 a year or $3.33 a month extra. When you look at it this way, it doesn't seem much more expensive and you just choose the radio you like better.

Josey Wales

My Feedback: (61)

The only thing I wish the 9303 had different was the ability to assign any switch to any functionother than that I love it.

Zeeb

My Feedback: (41)

That is a function I miss about the X9303 after my 9Z as well and one of the things I was hoping would be better with the 12X. From reading what I have in the manual, it looks like there are many more options for switch assignments as Troy mentioned.

As for the price, yeah it's a bit spendy but it does come with the Datasafe which right now is showing on Horizon's site for $100.00 without the cable and IIRC that was $200.00 up until recently. That is also the price for the Datasafe 2 and I think the version that comes with the 12X is Datasafe 3 which it seems like I've seen somewhere at $200.00 but I can't find it right now. It also comes with a metal transport case according to what Danny said on the JR support forum before it was shut down.

So if one figures the difference in the price to the Futaba, it's not that much with the extras and I do like the idea of the radio itself not being some plastic derivitive and the dual outputs for each primary control surface on the R1221 rx's is something the GS guys have been pleading for. Now if the R1222 will just show up with its 16g power inputs like the AR9100/R922's have, we'll be able to get rid of the matchboxes and power expanders on stuff up to 35% pretty easily. That's more money saved on a model.

If this sounds like rationalizing a new toy purchase, it is!

xcellheli

My Feedback: (1)

It's easy to not have to use the update functionality if you like to keep buying radios every few years. All the 10 series and now the 9303 to get true non converted 2.4.......should have bought a 14mz. It would have been a lot cheaper and it would be as current today as a new one is.

rmh

You lost me there son-I started with 10JR quite a while back -changed TX as series was up graded (S,SX,X)
There was no "14" Futaba -
However I did buy the Then new Futaba 9Z -
I really disliked the programming -not at all intuitive- got rid of it. My son like it tho as he likes to tinker (He is a Computer Tech).
I have seen the new 14 - couple of good friends have them -and are going thu the "upgrading/ correcting) for them-
If you like the Futaba approach -fine with me. It is a very pretty radio

Zeeb

My Feedback: (41)

How about posting a pic of you and your orange shirt?????

You DO get one of those for the extra $700.00 don't you????

rmh

now -now -steady on boy-

GBR2

My Feedback: (1)

The several hundred dollar datasafe is being replace with a $50 USB version that is suppose to contain the functionality of the $200 or so UltraData Safe (which worked only with the 10X radios and even then there was a seperate heli and airplane UltraDataSafe at $200 a pop).

From what is listed on the Horizon site, the 2.4 only 12X comes with Tx and Rx, the module based one comes with the Tx and the 72MHz module. Don't see the DataSafe listed as part of the package unless this has changed and the site has not been updated.

The 12FG can be had for $999 from Chief and other places, so even if the 12x can be had at $1400 that is still $400 more for basically the same functionality. Hey, I'm sure they will sell a ton of them but it isn't that great a leap in what is already available in the 9303.

rmh

Well- your idea of what is and what isn't necessary - is an opinion .
And that's what makes a horse race -
Some guys love F. R. E. D. S.

Zeeb

My Feedback: (41)

Well in the first place you've got your numbers messed up. The 2.4 version of the 12FG is $1200.00 not $1000.00.

Second, this radio is aimed squarely at the 12Z, not the 12FG and the 12Z is $1500.00 as well.

Third, from Horzions website

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=JRP1200

"Also, the 12X’s included PC Data Transfer System permits you to upload an unlimited number of model setups from your transmitter to your computer, then access and download any 50 of them to your 12X transmitter’s model memory for use at the field."

These radio things always wind up in a p*ssing match for some reason, but one might have hoped since the OP asked for input from the manuals, all you folks who are happy with your radio brand choice especially in this price range, would at least offer comments on the manuals as opposed to trying to tell everyone here "mine's bigger than yours"...[X(]

I've used Futaba in the past and I've switched brands for reasons that are sufficient for me to justify the rather expensive process. You're not going to convince me, nor anyone else waiting on a 12X that Futaba has a better deal....

Banker

My Feedback: (10)

What he said. Brand discussion over.

I can hardly wait to get the 12x.