Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat
06-23-2008, 06:46 AM
#51
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RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat
Summerwind,
You had some posts a while back in another thread (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_68...tm.htm#6857724 ) when Futaba was having problems with the radios programmed with the same code you doubted the poster then, and look what came of it.
You have a past about doing this same thing, do you work for Futaba do you have an interest in the RC community besides flying.
If you were to see pictures of the layout I doubt you would believe us even then. That is what is great about these forums you take from them what you want and go on about your bussiness.
Hopefully my friend will post the pictures before he goes out on deployment with the Guard. But you will not see anything that is going to convence you if you don't have a open mind then you will believe what you want.
You had some posts a while back in another thread (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_68...tm.htm#6857724 ) when Futaba was having problems with the radios programmed with the same code you doubted the poster then, and look what came of it.
You have a past about doing this same thing, do you work for Futaba do you have an interest in the RC community besides flying.
If you were to see pictures of the layout I doubt you would believe us even then. That is what is great about these forums you take from them what you want and go on about your bussiness.
Hopefully my friend will post the pictures before he goes out on deployment with the Guard. But you will not see anything that is going to convence you if you don't have a open mind then you will believe what you want.
06-23-2008, 08:31 AM
#52
RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat
Craig,
it got down to the truth though didn't it?
and personally i think you have way too much time on your hands to be diggin into old topics to try and flame someone.
the problem that we face here is that you posted a claim that Futaba 608FS Rx is bunk, and you provide no solid evidence, but you say that these forums are for sharing info amongst everyone, so then you already know that if you make such a claim that proof will be asked for right?
i'm challenging your claims and you can't take it...............you posted something to scare all the Futaba users and can't back it up.........................now i'm sure Hog will be posting here too, and let me remind you about double identities my friend, IP addresses are easily seen, so do i go further with this too?
it got down to the truth though didn't it?
and personally i think you have way too much time on your hands to be diggin into old topics to try and flame someone.
the problem that we face here is that you posted a claim that Futaba 608FS Rx is bunk, and you provide no solid evidence, but you say that these forums are for sharing info amongst everyone, so then you already know that if you make such a claim that proof will be asked for right?
i'm challenging your claims and you can't take it...............you posted something to scare all the Futaba users and can't back it up.........................now i'm sure Hog will be posting here too, and let me remind you about double identities my friend, IP addresses are easily seen, so do i go further with this too?
06-23-2008, 08:52 AM
#53
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RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat
You know, when the guid thing was reported some time back, I was one of the doubters though not vocally.But it turned out to be correct and saved modellers a lot of grief. I think we a owe a debt of gratitude to these modellers and I think it probably saved futaba a lot of money in possible lawsuits. I think overall, everyone has come out a winner in a sense.
As to this latest claim of heat issues, we have to remember that this is relatively a new application of this technology to RC and there may be teething issues which the manufacturer may not be aware of.
I personally haven't encountered any heat issues over here in the tropics but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist to a small group of users. I think with futaba being alerted and to start the investigation process is a step in the right direction.It may be a blessing in disguise to them again as it would enable them to make a more superior product.
Lets keep cool heads and let the process take a conclusion that satisfies everyone. We need to remember that this is just a hobby to destress remember? Happy flying guys.
As to this latest claim of heat issues, we have to remember that this is relatively a new application of this technology to RC and there may be teething issues which the manufacturer may not be aware of.
I personally haven't encountered any heat issues over here in the tropics but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist to a small group of users. I think with futaba being alerted and to start the investigation process is a step in the right direction.It may be a blessing in disguise to them again as it would enable them to make a more superior product.
Lets keep cool heads and let the process take a conclusion that satisfies everyone. We need to remember that this is just a hobby to destress remember? Happy flying guys.
06-23-2008, 09:34 AM
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RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat
ORIGINAL: summerwind
Craig,
it got down to the truth though didn't it?
and personally i think you have way too much time on your hands to be diggin into old topics to try and flame someone.
the problem that we face here is that you posted a claim that Futaba 608FS Rx is bunk, and you provide no solid evidence, but you say that these forums are for sharing info amongst everyone, so then you already know that if you make such a claim that proof will be asked for right?
i'm challenging your claims and you can't take it...............you posted something to scare all the Futaba users and can't back it up.........................now i'm sure Hog will be posting here too, and let me remind you about double identities my friend, IP addresses are easily seen, so do i go further with this too?
Craig,
it got down to the truth though didn't it?
and personally i think you have way too much time on your hands to be diggin into old topics to try and flame someone.
the problem that we face here is that you posted a claim that Futaba 608FS Rx is bunk, and you provide no solid evidence, but you say that these forums are for sharing info amongst everyone, so then you already know that if you make such a claim that proof will be asked for right?
i'm challenging your claims and you can't take it...............you posted something to scare all the Futaba users and can't back it up.........................now i'm sure Hog will be posting here too, and let me remind you about double identities my friend, IP addresses are easily seen, so do i go further with this too?
So yes check the IP address, we both do have the ISP provider so work you magic........MY FRIEND.
Oh and by the way do have any interest in this hobby, besides flying do you have a hidden agenda by try to discredit someone.
06-23-2008, 11:42 AM
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RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat
ORIGINAL: summerwind
and then again, we've not seen one shred of evidence telling us what is what............only a guy who is a friend of a guy, who had a malfunction and this guy's airplane went berzerk in which it chewed through another guy's airplane that was on final, and then this guy's airplane demolished itself.
yep, i'm sure Futaba has a lot of explaining to do here by golly.
and then again, we've not seen one shred of evidence telling us what is what............only a guy who is a friend of a guy, who had a malfunction and this guy's airplane went berzerk in which it chewed through another guy's airplane that was on final, and then this guy's airplane demolished itself.
yep, i'm sure Futaba has a lot of explaining to do here by golly.
06-23-2008, 01:14 PM
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RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat
Since the original poster said it consistently shuts down within a minute, I'd like to see a video of it, with both the Tx and Rx in view, and a thermometer showing the temp climbing prior to shutdown. Although even then I'd say it's probably more of an issue with that one receiver than with all of them.
06-23-2008, 01:41 PM
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RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat
I was there - as matter of fact it was my Yak profile that was turned to splinters.
Furthermore, I know these guys - Craig, Hog78, etc. - they are our "go to people" when someone in our club has a question or needs help. They are top notch and don't shoot from the hip. I personally witnessed the temperature readings and the failure of the component.
Better my plane than someone's leg.....
Furthermore, I know these guys - Craig, Hog78, etc. - they are our "go to people" when someone in our club has a question or needs help. They are top notch and don't shoot from the hip. I personally witnessed the temperature readings and the failure of the component.
Better my plane than someone's leg.....
06-23-2008, 02:09 PM
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RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat
Craig,
With a gasser I insist on having an optical ignition cutoff just for this sort of "runaway" and would have saved the day in this case. When I'm real good I'll also put a return spring with a digital servo which cuts the throttle even with no power applied. Also, under no circumstances will I allow a clear canopy over my radio compartment which I feel is a great green house to produce extreme temperatures under the sun. As others have commented, details on the actual "failure" are rather sparse but just wanted to comment that there were additional measures that could have been taken.
With a gasser I insist on having an optical ignition cutoff just for this sort of "runaway" and would have saved the day in this case. When I'm real good I'll also put a return spring with a digital servo which cuts the throttle even with no power applied. Also, under no circumstances will I allow a clear canopy over my radio compartment which I feel is a great green house to produce extreme temperatures under the sun. As others have commented, details on the actual "failure" are rather sparse but just wanted to comment that there were additional measures that could have been taken.
06-23-2008, 02:37 PM
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RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat
ORIGINAL: sfsjkid
Craig,
With a gasser I insist on having an optical ignition cutoff just for this sort of "runaway" and would have saved the day in this case. When I'm real good I'll also put a return spring with a digital servo which cuts the throttle even with no power applied. Also, under no circumstances will I allow a clear canopy over my radio compartment which I feel is a great green house to produce extreme temperatures under the sun. As others have commented, details on the actual "failure" are rather sparse but just wanted to comment that there were additional measures that could have been taken.
Craig,
With a gasser I insist on having an optical ignition cutoff just for this sort of "runaway" and would have saved the day in this case. When I'm real good I'll also put a return spring with a digital servo which cuts the throttle even with no power applied. Also, under no circumstances will I allow a clear canopy over my radio compartment which I feel is a great green house to produce extreme temperatures under the sun. As others have commented, details on the actual "failure" are rather sparse but just wanted to comment that there were additional measures that could have been taken.
06-23-2008, 04:19 PM
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RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat
You're correct, the optical cutoff shouldn't have worked under those conditions and therefore ignition would be cutoff too. No signal=no ignition.
See, http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...article_id=375
See, http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...article_id=375
06-23-2008, 04:29 PM
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RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat
ORIGINAL: craigteffe
Since nothing was responding the opticle cuttoff did not work. The reciever had failed nothing would work. Untill the temp went to 125 to 130 degrees then everything started working again.
Since nothing was responding the opticle cuttoff did not work. The reciever had failed nothing would work. Untill the temp went to 125 to 130 degrees then everything started working again.
Inside the airframe, under the canopy in direct sun, I can see it getting that hot. But during your "tests" was the receiver exposed to the same environment? If not, then how did it get hot enough to fail again.?
You see, uness your tests were conducted in an identical environment they are meaningless. If the receiver was outside of the plane and got that hot then there is some sort of high amp draw generating the heat. Defective receiver....defective battery....defective power expander......defective servos....defective regulators....all of which push or pull current.
The ultimate failure may be a defective receiver but it could be caused by other sources. Did you try another receiver in the same environment? I doubt it as it is easier to blame Futaba for one receiver that may have failed or was pushed to failure. Another receiver may prove this was an isolated failure but that wouldn't fit the agenda now, would it?
Lastly I don't personally know the other folks here that are challenging your assumptions. But I do know many of them have defended Futaba, JR and Spektrum alike against irrational accusuations such as the one that started this thread. Someone said you and Hog are the "go to guys" on your area. That's fine. We have a number of "go to guys" in our club too, some of which are egotistical bullies who are never wrong and don't like to be questioned. The latter won't last long in these forums because they will be challenged.
It is a shame this incident cost several valuable aircraft and gladly no one was injured. But there is still no evidence of a mass Futaba product failure until proven otherwise.
06-23-2008, 05:24 PM
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RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat
ORIGINAL: Dick T.
This questions still begs for an answer....How did the receiver get to 125-130 degrees?
Inside the airframe, under the canopy in direct sun, I can see it getting that hot. But during your "tests" was the receiver exposed to the same environment? If not, then how did it get hot enough to fail again.?
You see, uness your tests were conducted in an identical environment they are meaningless. If the receiver was outside of the plane and got that hot then there is some sort of high amp draw generating the heat. Defective receiver....defective battery....defective power expander......defective servos....defective regulators....all of which push or pull current.
The ultimate failure may be a defective receiver but it could be caused by other sources. Did you try another receiver in the same environment? I doubt it as it is easier to blame Futaba for one receiver that may have failed or was pushed to failure. Another receiver may prove this was an isolated failure but that wouldn't fit the agenda now, would it?
Lastly I don't personally know the other folks here that are challenging your assumptions. But I do know many of them have defended Futaba, JR and Spektrum alike against irrational accusuations such as the one that started this thread. Someone said you and Hog are the "go to guys" on your area. That's fine. We have a number of "go to guys" in our club too, some of which are egotistical bullies who are never wrong and don't like to be questioned. The latter won't last long in these forums because they will be challenged.
It is a shame this incident cost several valuable aircraft and gladly no one was injured. But there is still no evidence of a mass Futaba product failure until proven otherwise.
ORIGINAL: craigteffe
Since nothing was responding the opticle cuttoff did not work. The reciever had failed nothing would work. Untill the temp went to 125 to 130 degrees then everything started working again.
Since nothing was responding the opticle cuttoff did not work. The reciever had failed nothing would work. Untill the temp went to 125 to 130 degrees then everything started working again.
Inside the airframe, under the canopy in direct sun, I can see it getting that hot. But during your "tests" was the receiver exposed to the same environment? If not, then how did it get hot enough to fail again.?
You see, uness your tests were conducted in an identical environment they are meaningless. If the receiver was outside of the plane and got that hot then there is some sort of high amp draw generating the heat. Defective receiver....defective battery....defective power expander......defective servos....defective regulators....all of which push or pull current.
The ultimate failure may be a defective receiver but it could be caused by other sources. Did you try another receiver in the same environment? I doubt it as it is easier to blame Futaba for one receiver that may have failed or was pushed to failure. Another receiver may prove this was an isolated failure but that wouldn't fit the agenda now, would it?
Lastly I don't personally know the other folks here that are challenging your assumptions. But I do know many of them have defended Futaba, JR and Spektrum alike against irrational accusuations such as the one that started this thread. Someone said you and Hog are the "go to guys" on your area. That's fine. We have a number of "go to guys" in our club too, some of which are egotistical bullies who are never wrong and don't like to be questioned. The latter won't last long in these forums because they will be challenged.
It is a shame this incident cost several valuable aircraft and gladly no one was injured. But there is still no evidence of a mass Futaba product failure until proven otherwise.
06-23-2008, 05:28 PM
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RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat
ORIGINAL: sfsjkid
Craig,
With a gasser I insist on having an optical ignition cutoff just for this sort of "runaway" and would have saved the day in this case. When I'm real good I'll also put a return spring with a digital servo which cuts the throttle even with no power applied. Also, under no circumstances will I allow a clear canopy over my radio compartment which I feel is a great green house to produce extreme temperatures under the sun. As others have commented, details on the actual "failure" are rather sparse but just wanted to comment that there were additional measures that could have been taken.
Craig,
With a gasser I insist on having an optical ignition cutoff just for this sort of "runaway" and would have saved the day in this case. When I'm real good I'll also put a return spring with a digital servo which cuts the throttle even with no power applied. Also, under no circumstances will I allow a clear canopy over my radio compartment which I feel is a great green house to produce extreme temperatures under the sun. As others have commented, details on the actual "failure" are rather sparse but just wanted to comment that there were additional measures that could have been taken.
Kid, do you think I should shield my spectrum in my su-26 as I can see the rx thru th canopy. no problems now but was wondering for preventive maint. Thanks Hog
06-23-2008, 06:55 PM
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RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat
If you want more information on this Go over to Fly*ng Gian*s web site and take a look they have thread going on the same issues it has been documented and is real.
My interest in this as stated before is that i do not want to loose an airplane because of this, and if i can spread the word to keep others from loosing one I will and have.
I have purchased 1 module and 3 recievers for my planes and they are still in the box, and that is where they will stay untill i send 1 module and reciever back to Tower and the other 2 will be up for sell here on RCU shortly.
My interest in this as stated before is that i do not want to loose an airplane because of this, and if i can spread the word to keep others from loosing one I will and have.
I have purchased 1 module and 3 recievers for my planes and they are still in the box, and that is where they will stay untill i send 1 module and reciever back to Tower and the other 2 will be up for sell here on RCU shortly.
06-23-2008, 06:56 PM
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RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat
ORIGINAL: Herd33
Hog78,
I think to avoid that problem you should just give me your SU-26.
Go Army.
Hog78,
I think to avoid that problem you should just give me your SU-26.
Go Army.
LOL thats funny I dont want to give up the Hilton or Sheradan when I travel. I can make you a good offer on the Extra!! Outta here off to the cheese head land. Air Force That is what we NCO's are for to keep you "zero's" out of trouble..Hog
06-23-2008, 07:19 PM
#69
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RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat
A picture of the installation would be nice. Were there exposed cannisters in the fuse? I see it was a composite plane.
06-23-2008, 07:45 PM
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RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat
ORIGINAL: Dick T.
This questions still begs for an answer....How did the receiver get to 125-130 degrees?
Inside the airframe, under the canopy in direct sun, I can see it getting that hot. But during your "tests" was the receiver exposed to the same environment? If not, then how did it get hot enough to fail again.?
You see, uness your tests were conducted in an identical environment they are meaningless. If the receiver was outside of the plane and got that hot then there is some sort of high amp draw generating the heat. Defective receiver....defective battery....defective power expander......defective servos....defective regulators....all of which push or pull current.
The ultimate failure may be a defective receiver but it could be caused by other sources. Did you try another receiver in the same environment? I doubt it as it is easier to blame Futaba for one receiver that may have failed or was pushed to failure. Another receiver may prove this was an isolated failure but that wouldn't fit the agenda now, would it?
Lastly I don't personally know the other folks here that are challenging your assumptions. But I do know many of them have defended Futaba, JR and Spektrum alike against irrational accusuations such as the one that started this thread. Someone said you and Hog are the "go to guys" on your area. That's fine. We have a number of "go to guys" in our club too, some of which are egotistical bullies who are never wrong and don't like to be questioned. The latter won't last long in these forums because they will be challenged.
It is a shame this incident cost several valuable aircraft and gladly no one was injured. But there is still no evidence of a mass Futaba product failure until proven otherwise.
ORIGINAL: craigteffe
Since nothing was responding the opticle cuttoff did not work. The reciever had failed nothing would work. Untill the temp went to 125 to 130 degrees then everything started working again.
Since nothing was responding the opticle cuttoff did not work. The reciever had failed nothing would work. Untill the temp went to 125 to 130 degrees then everything started working again.
Inside the airframe, under the canopy in direct sun, I can see it getting that hot. But during your "tests" was the receiver exposed to the same environment? If not, then how did it get hot enough to fail again.?
You see, uness your tests were conducted in an identical environment they are meaningless. If the receiver was outside of the plane and got that hot then there is some sort of high amp draw generating the heat. Defective receiver....defective battery....defective power expander......defective servos....defective regulators....all of which push or pull current.
The ultimate failure may be a defective receiver but it could be caused by other sources. Did you try another receiver in the same environment? I doubt it as it is easier to blame Futaba for one receiver that may have failed or was pushed to failure. Another receiver may prove this was an isolated failure but that wouldn't fit the agenda now, would it?
Lastly I don't personally know the other folks here that are challenging your assumptions. But I do know many of them have defended Futaba, JR and Spektrum alike against irrational accusuations such as the one that started this thread. Someone said you and Hog are the "go to guys" on your area. That's fine. We have a number of "go to guys" in our club too, some of which are egotistical bullies who are never wrong and don't like to be questioned. The latter won't last long in these forums because they will be challenged.
It is a shame this incident cost several valuable aircraft and gladly no one was injured. But there is still no evidence of a mass Futaba product failure until proven otherwise.
The fuse was intact and we could duplicate the problem on the ground by putting the canopy on the plane and turning the reciever on. It would take about 2 min. to go to the red state on the reciever. Take off the canopy and cover the reciever with a towel and 3to 5 min. later regain control.
My friend read all these posts and said he could not believe what was being said. He did call Futaba today and they told him to send in his reciever and module, but they do not know of any problems.
06-23-2008, 08:06 PM
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RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat
ORIGINAL: craigteffe
This plane had 1 flight on it with the new reciever earlier in the day when the heat was down flew great. He staarted the plane for the 2nd flight and all was good he started to taxi out to the runway when this happened. When a reciever fails you have no fail safe, In most cases the surfaces will either do what they want or stay locked in that same position.
ORIGINAL: victorzamora
Hey guys, I've read through SEVERAL threads in the past couple hours and have been wondering only one thing about this situation. If the way I say this doesn't come off as understanding, then I'd like to say that I really don't mean to sound accusatory. Is it possible that it DID go to failsafe, but his failsafe was set to +100% throttle? I've never used failsafe (too cheap to buy PCM receivers, and too cheap to buy planes nice enough to need them
), but I know that I've accidently messed up servo travel in mixes as well as simply for aircraft set-up. In fact, I've started an engine with the throttle reversed, only for it to go full-throttle on me. I left the engine running when I reversed the servo, and it went full-throttle on me again. That happened to me, and I've always considered myself to be a very cautious person. If any of the other servos didn't do anything, couldn't it be that he had the failsafe set at 100% instead of -100% or something like that?
Hey guys, I've read through SEVERAL threads in the past couple hours and have been wondering only one thing about this situation. If the way I say this doesn't come off as understanding, then I'd like to say that I really don't mean to sound accusatory. Is it possible that it DID go to failsafe, but his failsafe was set to +100% throttle? I've never used failsafe (too cheap to buy PCM receivers, and too cheap to buy planes nice enough to need them
), but I know that I've accidently messed up servo travel in mixes as well as simply for aircraft set-up. In fact, I've started an engine with the throttle reversed, only for it to go full-throttle on me. I left the engine running when I reversed the servo, and it went full-throttle on me again. That happened to me, and I've always considered myself to be a very cautious person. If any of the other servos didn't do anything, couldn't it be that he had the failsafe set at 100% instead of -100% or something like that?
06-23-2008, 08:21 PM
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RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat
ORIGINAL: Hog78
Kid, do you think I should shield my spectrum in my su-26 as I can see the rx thru th canopy. no problems now but was wondering for preventive maint. Thanks Hog
ORIGINAL: sfsjkid
Craig,
With a gasser I insist on having an optical ignition cutoff just for this sort of "runaway" and would have saved the day in this case. When I'm real good I'll also put a return spring with a digital servo which cuts the throttle even with no power applied. Also, under no circumstances will I allow a clear canopy over my radio compartment which I feel is a great green house to produce extreme temperatures under the sun. As others have commented, details on the actual "failure" are rather sparse but just wanted to comment that there were additional measures that could have been taken.
Craig,
With a gasser I insist on having an optical ignition cutoff just for this sort of "runaway" and would have saved the day in this case. When I'm real good I'll also put a return spring with a digital servo which cuts the throttle even with no power applied. Also, under no circumstances will I allow a clear canopy over my radio compartment which I feel is a great green house to produce extreme temperatures under the sun. As others have commented, details on the actual "failure" are rather sparse but just wanted to comment that there were additional measures that could have been taken.
Kid, do you think I should shield my spectrum in my su-26 as I can see the rx thru th canopy. no problems now but was wondering for preventive maint. Thanks Hog
06-23-2008, 08:22 PM
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RE: Futaba 608FS reciever locout/failure due to heat
ORIGINAL: craigteffe
Since nothing was responding the opticle cuttoff did not work. The reciever had failed nothing would work. Untill the temp went to 125 to 130 degrees then everything started working again.
ORIGINAL: sfsjkid
Craig,
With a gasser I insist on having an optical ignition cutoff just for this sort of "runaway" and would have saved the day in this case. When I'm real good I'll also put a return spring with a digital servo which cuts the throttle even with no power applied. Also, under no circumstances will I allow a clear canopy over my radio compartment which I feel is a great green house to produce extreme temperatures under the sun. As others have commented, details on the actual "failure" are rather sparse but just wanted to comment that there were additional measures that could have been taken.
Craig,
With a gasser I insist on having an optical ignition cutoff just for this sort of "runaway" and would have saved the day in this case. When I'm real good I'll also put a return spring with a digital servo which cuts the throttle even with no power applied. Also, under no circumstances will I allow a clear canopy over my radio compartment which I feel is a great green house to produce extreme temperatures under the sun. As others have commented, details on the actual "failure" are rather sparse but just wanted to comment that there were additional measures that could have been taken.
ORIGINAL: sfsjkid
You're correct, the optical cutoff shouldn't have worked under those conditions and therefore ignition would be cutoff too. No signal=no ignition.
See, http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...article_id=375
You're correct, the optical cutoff shouldn't have worked under those conditions and therefore ignition would be cutoff too. No signal=no ignition.
See, http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...article_id=375
Since Craig seemed to have missed this (ie my last comment), I'm going to "bump" this just once. Thanks for your understanding.