Only one thing is certain: Solartex Antique and Linen should NOT be the only and automatic choices for WWI CDL.

I guess you feel rather strongly about it.
Doc

I'm not a fan of "one-size-fits-all" scale modeling solutions. And this ties into what appears to be an increasing common trend among modelers, namely, that there should be a commercially produced solution to each and every modeling challenge. You see this in all those "Where can I buy a 1/7 scale X" questions. Why would anyone assume that ONE color would do for each and every WWI aircraft that had a "clear" dope finish?

Exactly, or PC10 or any of the five color French camo colors. Then by the same token how do you eliminate the possibility of a comercial product being correct.
Doc

A given commercial product MIGHT be the right choice for some given modeling task. I happen to believe that solartex antique is a pretty good match for an EIII. On the other hand, it doesn't look right for an Albatros CI, or IMHO any of the British aircraft. The problem with the linen is that it really is too opaque (and very yellow). Actually, it's completely opaque, which is why modelers use it...it hides non-scale structure.

Another key part of my modeling philosophy is that commercial products are almost always just a starting point. On my Snipe I used Jerry Nelson's PC10, but only after I tweaked the color myself. Similarly, when I used solartex antique on my EIII, I gave it a think latex wash that "personalized" the color. One reason why I believe that we so many fine WWI models coming out of the UK (and Europe) is that I think there are more "old school" modelers over there, builders who don't expect to be able to "buy a scale solution."

I have a BUSA SE 5a that I bashed, rebuilt the tail. heavily detailed the cockpit and most of the surface detail from the cockpit forward I inserted 408 eyelets to accomplish the lacing for the side inspection panels, completely built the radiator louvers from styrene from scratch, detailed the faux engine with bolts and covers, pumps and spark plugs and wires. I covered it with Micks linen, I painted it with Micks PC10 paint and do you know who suspects its not perfect(cause it's surely not) absolutely no one. I know, but its a sport flyer and it's for local big birds and dawn patrols. I'm real proud of how the airplane looks although it's NOT SCALE. But the thing is no one cares, nor do I. People love it. Don you're talented but you obsess, but then sometimes in the end all there is, is to surrender , do the best you can and get on with it.
Doc

There's room for both approaches in the hobby of scale modeling. To achieve the sorts of results you see at world championships, "obsessing" is an absolute requirement. Masters like Pete McDurmott take this obsession for scale accuracy to dizzying heights. But sometimes you just want to build a flying model for the sheer fun of it and and to "wow'em at the field" (though any large ARF Extra would probably do a better job at that).

BTW, I'd love to see some photos of the engine area of your SE5a. Might give me some ideas for mine.

I'll try and post some tomorrow
Doc

I'm going to have to wait a bit longer for mine SE5a to get here .[:@]

Tin Can Bay is now a island now
We are flooded in with all roads are cut .
Tin Can bay is in the SE Queensland Australia .
Most of QLD is flooded and still more rain on the way .

Greg

We'll just keep your thread warm for you with arguments about CDL and PC10 until OZ dries out and you get your kit!

Hi
Still no kit .
5 .2 .2011
posted on 30.11.2110

Email 15 sent to DHL and still get the same reply back (The shipment is being transported to the destination country )

( this is one slow" F ing" boat )

Greg

Id heard about the slow one to China but it seems there's also a VERY slow one to Oz.
Doc

I think obsession is one of the best parts of scale modeling. Even if I dont reproduce every joint, I want to know how it was really made. What did it really looked like. There are different levels and i am glad; Peter McDurmott spends 10 years making one of his models. I am sure like all, he builds 5-10 regular planes during the super build time. You cant build everything to top level; you would never fly anything or have the confidence to fly them.

Well, because I wasnt my BUSA Pup to be a simple build (and let's be honest, it aint the scalest (is that a word) of kits) I am using Antique Solatex and Dark Green Oracover (I have a couple of rolls going begging... But I reckon I will be weathering up the Dark green to get rid of the "green" in the colour. I think it will be a bit bright without.

Cheers,

Hugh

And that's a perfectly legitimate choice. That is, you've thought about it, and have practical reasons for your choice. What I've always objected to is builders, who otherwise seem to be attempting a "competition level" scale model, modelers who will might otherwise go to extreme lengths to color match roundel colors, but who simply don't consider whether the antique or linen solartex are really accurate representations for the particular aircraft (which it's particular CDL) that they are modeling. Personally, another reason I don't like the solartex antique and linen (and I've used both) is that my model ends up looking like everyone else's model. I prefer more of a "one-of-a-kind" finish.

BTW, I noticed that I needed to add some red to the Nelson's PC10 to get the slightly browner shade I was interested in. You might try experimenting with a thin "reddish" wash over the Dark Green to see what you get.

That's how feel. Even my more "serious" builds are only taking maybe two years of actually building time. And two years is a LONG TIME! I really enjoy "replicating structure" on scale builds but it's also fun just to put together a kit and go fly. So doing something like the SE5a gives me energy to do something like the DrI...and vice versa.

At the base of it all is the likelyhood that there really is no set color for CDL, I would imagine it's as elusive as PC10 and we all know in our hearts that that's a useless debate. When you consider all the variables involved in wartime supply of the components of the coverings and finishes it becomes way more than just mind boggling. Then one has to rely on "expert" opinions and analysis regarding what the different hues and shades of black and white photos taken 90 years ago really are color wise. It's a crap shoot at best and up to each modeler to decide what is best for him or her and get on with it. Mick Reeves, many time national/European/world champion no doubt has skeptics argue that despite his successes his colors are wrong, so there you are, roll them dice.
Doc

Exactly. It's up to each modeler.

<div>Good thing no one has brought up the &lsquo; were they glossy or matt &lsquo; question .................oops !</div>

Jeffski Dont make me get the flying monkeys.
Doc

Really enjoying all this SE5 exchange....here's a few shots of my dashboard for my 1/4 scale so far.. I had the good fortune about ten years ago to do a walk around of F-904 at Old Warden England and get my own shots. I then scanned all the guages into photoshop, corrected the distortion and redrew and sharpened them and printed out my own faces.
On the dash board I have about 100 hrs. invested..the contol column last week another 15 hrs. ( don't know where I got this habit of writing my time invested...just to prove how insane this all is I guess, LOL) still lots of little goodies to make and detail before this area can be covered in, thats why the wood profiles are still visible above in the photos.
My approach is to get as much done in the cockpit now because it will be virtually impossible to do it retroactively...and to be honest I dream about making these parts and how I will solve the particular problems trying out all sorts of techniques I've learned...its a pain but the satisfaction I get is worth it in the end.

MD, your cockpit interior makes me glad I didn't even try! Honestly, if you had told me these were your Old Warden photos I would have believed you! You're on track to give Pete McDurmott a run for his money.