GTM 1/2 Scale Fokker Triplane
01-18-2013, 04:15 PM
#226
Thread Starter
RE: GTM 1/2 Scale Fokker Triplane
Teus
No, I never do that. Makes me nervous........ like something could go wrong. I have heard too many times how a working control column brought down a model aircraft.
Thanks for looking in!
Blue skies
TK
No, I never do that. Makes me nervous........ like something could go wrong. I have heard too many times how a working control column brought down a model aircraft.
Thanks for looking in!
Blue skies
TK
01-19-2013, 08:58 AM
#227
My Feedback: (2)
RE: GTM 1/2 Scale Fokker Triplane
I have to admit that I agree with Teus in that it would look great... but also with you about jamming controls. They could be operated with separate servos (control surfaces and control columns) to prevent that. Your workmanship is fantastic, as well as all the techniques that you are sharing with us. Thanks a lot for putting this build out for everyone to watch.
Bob
Bob
01-19-2013, 07:25 PM
#228
RE: GTM 1/2 Scale Fokker Triplane
Standard modeling practice, particularly on larger models, recommends against attaching control cables directly to servos. The standard solution then is to use a bellcrank setup. One bellcrank for the rudder and another for the elevator(s). So here's the point I'm getting at: You can kill two birds with one stone, if you just think of the rudder bar and/or joy stick as scale "bellcranks" with scale cable runs...which on a large model will also probably be the most effective locations.
So if you just attach the rudder cables to the rudder pedal, as per the original, and then drive the rudder pedal as you would a bellcrank with the servo, there shouldn't be any problems. I don't see how this would be any riskier than using a non-scale bellcrank. The joy stick is a little trickier because normally it has movement along two axes. While I've seen setups where this two directional movement is maintained, I would agree that it adds complexity and thus increases risk. But a joystick that only moves in one direction (backwards and forwards) would, again, be no different from a normal bellcrank.
In short, my point is, that if you are going to use bellcranks anyway to operate the control cables, why not make them "scale bellcranks" by using your outstanding rudder bar and joystick?
So if you just attach the rudder cables to the rudder pedal, as per the original, and then drive the rudder pedal as you would a bellcrank with the servo, there shouldn't be any problems. I don't see how this would be any riskier than using a non-scale bellcrank. The joy stick is a little trickier because normally it has movement along two axes. While I've seen setups where this two directional movement is maintained, I would agree that it adds complexity and thus increases risk. But a joystick that only moves in one direction (backwards and forwards) would, again, be no different from a normal bellcrank.
In short, my point is, that if you are going to use bellcranks anyway to operate the control cables, why not make them "scale bellcranks" by using your outstanding rudder bar and joystick?
01-20-2013, 01:44 PM
#229
My Feedback: (10)
RE: GTM 1/2 Scale Fokker Triplane
But I believe there is a difference, or at least two that I can think of.
1) the non scale bell ranks are usually hidden in an area of the plane sealed from contact with foreign objects ( like a pilot figure or any tool or item accidentally or purposely dropped into the cockpit.)
2 then on scale bell ranks don't have anything else they are attached to like a pilot figures arms or legs or a long moment armed joystick that they also must move. The joystick has a particularly large moment arm and when you add that force with the force applied by the control surface and air pressure you might overload he servo or the battery?
Im sure it can be done safely, but I prefer the option of using separate servos just to move the control surfaces, or a pilot figure with some ability to move along with the surfaces but not physically linked. Just my $.02
Whit
1) the non scale bell ranks are usually hidden in an area of the plane sealed from contact with foreign objects ( like a pilot figure or any tool or item accidentally or purposely dropped into the cockpit.)
2 then on scale bell ranks don't have anything else they are attached to like a pilot figures arms or legs or a long moment armed joystick that they also must move. The joystick has a particularly large moment arm and when you add that force with the force applied by the control surface and air pressure you might overload he servo or the battery?
Im sure it can be done safely, but I prefer the option of using separate servos just to move the control surfaces, or a pilot figure with some ability to move along with the surfaces but not physically linked. Just my $.02
Whit
ORIGINAL: abufletcher
Standard modeling practice, particularly on larger models, recommends against attaching control cables directly to servos. The standard solution then is to use a bellcrank setup. One bellcrank for the rudder and another for the elevator(s). So here's the point I'm getting at: You can kill two birds with one stone, if you just think of the rudder bar and/or joy stick as scale "bellcranks" with scale cable runs...which on a large model will also probably be the most effective locations.
So if you just attach the rudder cables to the rudder pedal, as per the original, and then drive the rudder pedal as you would a bellcrank with the servo, there shouldn't be any problems. I don't see how this would be any riskier than using a non-scale bellcrank. The joy stick is a little trickier because normally it has movement along two axes. While I've seen setups where this two directional movement is maintained, I would agree that it adds complexity and thus increases risk. But a joystick that only moves in one direction (backwards and forwards) would, again, be no different from a normal bellcrank.
In short, my point is, that if you are going to use bellcranks anyway to operate the control cables, why not make them "scale bellcranks" by using your outstanding rudder bar and joystick?
Standard modeling practice, particularly on larger models, recommends against attaching control cables directly to servos. The standard solution then is to use a bellcrank setup. One bellcrank for the rudder and another for the elevator(s). So here's the point I'm getting at: You can kill two birds with one stone, if you just think of the rudder bar and/or joy stick as scale "bellcranks" with scale cable runs...which on a large model will also probably be the most effective locations.
So if you just attach the rudder cables to the rudder pedal, as per the original, and then drive the rudder pedal as you would a bellcrank with the servo, there shouldn't be any problems. I don't see how this would be any riskier than using a non-scale bellcrank. The joy stick is a little trickier because normally it has movement along two axes. While I've seen setups where this two directional movement is maintained, I would agree that it adds complexity and thus increases risk. But a joystick that only moves in one direction (backwards and forwards) would, again, be no different from a normal bellcrank.
In short, my point is, that if you are going to use bellcranks anyway to operate the control cables, why not make them "scale bellcranks" by using your outstanding rudder bar and joystick?
01-20-2013, 03:17 PM
#230
Thread Starter
RE: GTM 1/2 Scale Fokker Triplane
Gentlemen
You all have interesting and good ideas.
But the bottom line is............ I do not want the extra servo's..... the extra batteries or drain from the one running the main servo's........ The extra work in making all this work....... just to look down in the cockpit and see the pilot move the stick. To be fully honest, it just does not interest me. Ya I guess it's cool to see. But it's not for me. Besides I have my work cut out to get this bird done by 2014 in the degree of scale I would like to see it. I have a long road ahead, plus there are others counting on me to get this thing done.
Thanks again for your suggestions
TK
You all have interesting and good ideas.
But the bottom line is............ I do not want the extra servo's..... the extra batteries or drain from the one running the main servo's........ The extra work in making all this work....... just to look down in the cockpit and see the pilot move the stick. To be fully honest, it just does not interest me. Ya I guess it's cool to see. But it's not for me. Besides I have my work cut out to get this bird done by 2014 in the degree of scale I would like to see it. I have a long road ahead, plus there are others counting on me to get this thing done.
Thanks again for your suggestions
TK
01-20-2013, 08:53 PM
#233
RE: GTM 1/2 Scale Fokker Triplane
Cal Branton, and Kirk Hall(Rebel) build.
Here are a few shots of our build.
Servo location under seat.
Rudder mount and tailskid mount.
Drilling out the spar to lighten it more.
Firewall shot. 3W-275
Wheels and axel shots.
Kirk on the axel... I'm 200+ pounds
Here are a few shots of our build.
Servo location under seat.
Rudder mount and tailskid mount.
Drilling out the spar to lighten it more.
Firewall shot. 3W-275
Wheels and axel shots.
Kirk on the axel... I'm 200+ pounds
01-20-2013, 09:07 PM
#234
RE: GTM 1/2 Scale Fokker Triplane
Here are a few more.
Axel and Spar by Geardaddy. Thanx Jack
Spar was 2.5 pounds when we started. Now about 1 pound, and getting lighter.
Smooth tires and wheels, local shop. Very light alloy. Bearings from Grainger(3/4x1/2)
Wheels, tires and axel weigh in at 4 pounds.
Aircraft grade bolts are heaviest part on it. 1/2x4 bolt
Axel diameter is 7/8 6061 thin wall.
Servos will be Futaba S9152 regular digital servos @278 oz of torque at 6 volts.Should be good enough for a 90 to 100 pound model.
Rebel
Axel and Spar by Geardaddy. Thanx Jack
Spar was 2.5 pounds when we started. Now about 1 pound, and getting lighter.
Smooth tires and wheels, local shop. Very light alloy. Bearings from Grainger(3/4x1/2)
Wheels, tires and axel weigh in at 4 pounds.
Aircraft grade bolts are heaviest part on it. 1/2x4 bolt
Axel diameter is 7/8 6061 thin wall.
Servos will be Futaba S9152 regular digital servos @278 oz of torque at 6 volts.Should be good enough for a 90 to 100 pound model.
Rebel
01-24-2013, 06:27 PM
#235
Thread Starter
RE: GTM 1/2 Scale Fokker Triplane
Kirk and Cal
This is great to see all this work being done and to have all these triplane builds being posted on this thread. With you guys and the others posting their progress we will be sure to have lots of fun! Thanks Guys.
Now I have to say I strayed a little from my build for a couple nights to work on my old Cub. I installed a home made pair of skis to have some fun this coming week with a little bit of snow on the way!!!
TK
This is great to see all this work being done and to have all these triplane builds being posted on this thread. With you guys and the others posting their progress we will be sure to have lots of fun! Thanks Guys.
Now I have to say I strayed a little from my build for a couple nights to work on my old Cub. I installed a home made pair of skis to have some fun this coming week with a little bit of snow on the way!!!
TK
01-24-2013, 06:29 PM
#236
Thread Starter
RE: GTM 1/2 Scale Fokker Triplane
Kirk and Cal
This is great to see all this work being done and to have all these triplane builds being posted on this thread. With you guys and the others posting their progress we will be sure to have lots of fun! Thanks Guys.
Now I have to say I strayed a little from my build for a couple nights to work on my old Cub. I installed a home made pair of skis to have some fun this coming week with a little bit of snow on the way!!!
TK
This is great to see all this work being done and to have all these triplane builds being posted on this thread. With you guys and the others posting their progress we will be sure to have lots of fun! Thanks Guys.
Now I have to say I strayed a little from my build for a couple nights to work on my old Cub. I installed a home made pair of skis to have some fun this coming week with a little bit of snow on the way!!!
TK
01-25-2013, 06:10 AM
#238
RE: GTM 1/2 Scale Fokker Triplane
Thats not all thats weird going on here I keep getting for or five notices of posts on subscriptions here and when I get there there's nothing new posted or maybe it'll take me to a previous page????? Odd indeed Watson!
Doc
Doc
02-02-2013, 10:31 AM
#239
Thread Starter
RE: GTM 1/2 Scale Fokker Triplane
Gentlemen
Does anyone have drawings or know of a source where I can get them for the Fokker Driedecker control column handgrip. It is different from the D-8 and D-7, I do have the D-8 drawings from which I have made my 1/2 scale grip. I would like to replicate the triplane one instead of redoing the handgrip found in the D-8. Here are some pic's of the Triplane grip and The D-8 grip. Notice the differences are mainly in the trigger tabs.
Thanks for your help.
TK
Does anyone have drawings or know of a source where I can get them for the Fokker Driedecker control column handgrip. It is different from the D-8 and D-7, I do have the D-8 drawings from which I have made my 1/2 scale grip. I would like to replicate the triplane one instead of redoing the handgrip found in the D-8. Here are some pic's of the Triplane grip and The D-8 grip. Notice the differences are mainly in the trigger tabs.
Thanks for your help.
TK
02-03-2013, 03:06 PM
#241
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RE: GTM 1/2 Scale Fokker Triplane
Craig and I installed the firewalls on both of the fuses. Next step is to build the subwing after Craig finishes the ball and cups for gear. Plan to use 14 inch bicylce wheels. Hope to have both of the fuses sitting on the gear in the next couple of weeks. Here are a few pictures of the firewall installation. My fuse with partially completed stab and firewall attached weighs in around 12 pounds.
02-04-2013, 05:25 AM
#242
RE: GTM 1/2 Scale Fokker Triplane
Nice looking work guys, as a word of caution, if the ally angle you used to support the firewall came from Home Depot or Loews please replace it with some from Aircraft Spruce that has a radius on the inside of the angle to prevent cracking due to vibration. If you already used aircraft grade then disregard this.
Doc
Doc
02-04-2013, 05:32 AM
#243
RE: GTM 1/2 Scale Fokker Triplane
ORIGINAL: TKFOKKER
Some small progress to the control column.
Some small progress to the control column.
02-06-2013, 06:31 PM
#244
Thread Starter
RE: GTM 1/2 Scale Fokker Triplane
Abu, Doc, Kirk,Cal, Craig, Bill, and any others who have replyed.
Thanks guys for adding pic's, opinions, and ideas to this build. It's been fun so far and only going to get better once the other Gentlemen get going on their triplanes also. There should be another 3 to go, that will make a total of 7 builds for us to have postings on!!! It will be interesting to see the different engines, radio's, build methods, covering materials, and color schemes on these 7 Driedeckers!!
Here are some photo's of another cockpit I'm doing. This will be the third of this build. And the Last!!! I' doing 2 more for the other triplanes. In these pic's are a variety of the gun mounts, other parts, and the start of the handgrips. It seems like it takes forever to make this stuff but I did notice by the time you do it 3 times it goes easier, and comes out better. Another thing it sure messes up the shp table!!!!!!
After I get all 3 finished I hope to start on the landing gear.
Snow coming, ski flying!!
TK
Thanks guys for adding pic's, opinions, and ideas to this build. It's been fun so far and only going to get better once the other Gentlemen get going on their triplanes also. There should be another 3 to go, that will make a total of 7 builds for us to have postings on!!! It will be interesting to see the different engines, radio's, build methods, covering materials, and color schemes on these 7 Driedeckers!!
Here are some photo's of another cockpit I'm doing. This will be the third of this build. And the Last!!! I' doing 2 more for the other triplanes. In these pic's are a variety of the gun mounts, other parts, and the start of the handgrips. It seems like it takes forever to make this stuff but I did notice by the time you do it 3 times it goes easier, and comes out better. Another thing it sure messes up the shp table!!!!!!
After I get all 3 finished I hope to start on the landing gear.
Snow coming, ski flying!!
TK
02-06-2013, 06:46 PM
#245
Thread Starter
RE: GTM 1/2 Scale Fokker Triplane
Gentlemen
I'm am looking for advise on triplane fuselage metal color, not the panels which were an olive green. But the steel tube frame. I know they used a" gray green", and an "olive green" pretty much the panel and cowl color. But was there a blueish gray??? Anyway your imput would be welcomed. Also any parts that moved or were removable were black in the cockpit. excluding aluminum.
Thanks!
TK
I'm am looking for advise on triplane fuselage metal color, not the panels which were an olive green. But the steel tube frame. I know they used a" gray green", and an "olive green" pretty much the panel and cowl color. But was there a blueish gray??? Anyway your imput would be welcomed. Also any parts that moved or were removable were black in the cockpit. excluding aluminum.
Thanks!
TK
02-06-2013, 07:02 PM
#246
Thread Starter
RE: GTM 1/2 Scale Fokker Triplane
Hey Guys
I already had the other plans for the hand grip. They were not complete. Plus the pic's I had were too vague, and no clear enough for me to see exactly how they were built so I decided to use the same grip I used in my D-8 which is fine, they did use these also in the triplane.
TK
I already had the other plans for the hand grip. They were not complete. Plus the pic's I had were too vague, and no clear enough for me to see exactly how they were built so I decided to use the same grip I used in my D-8 which is fine, they did use these also in the triplane.
TK
02-07-2013, 05:03 AM
#248
Thread Starter
RE: GTM 1/2 Scale Fokker Triplane
Profooney
I do relize that. Only the area the covering touched was wraped. It still was painted before.....
So how's that 1/2 scale D-7 coming? How about some updates?
TK
I do relize that. Only the area the covering touched was wraped. It still was painted before.....
So how's that 1/2 scale D-7 coming? How about some updates?
TK