scalebirdman

My Feedback: (6)

I've seen an number of Top Gun models for sale; though none at a price I would be willing to pay. If you come across one and buy it, I'd love to see the pix; just give credit where credit is due.

Stickbuilder

Cause in team scale, your buddy who built the model is standing there with you getting his due of the credit. If you are flying an ARF in competition, what's the chances that ol' Nguyen Schwartz is gonna be on the podium with you?

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

ps....don't take this stuff too seriously.
bill

3dd

My Feedback: (6)

well it seems as the scale masters thinks it's ok for arf's to be in scale.this is called the open class

Stickbuilder

Mr. Higgenbotham,

It wasn't always this way. This has only come about in the last little while. At one point people appreciated building skills. It wasn't all about who can buy the better airplane, but who could build and fly the better airplane. It's a shame, but it's gone the same way as the rest of our disposable, instant gratification soceity. It's all about hurry hurry, can't spend the time to learn, gotta be competitive, whatever the cost. (at least that's the way I see it) Once again, don't take it too seriously. No one is picking on you cause you fly ARF's. You guys gotta lighten up, and quit being so defensive. Normally, a person who is being that defensive, is just a little bit concerned about the credibility of what he is doing.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

dragoonpvw

My Feedback: (7)

Bill, methinks thou dost protest too much.
You are constantly picking on people who build arfs.
You condemn them for not appreciating building skills ( though I have not heard one supporter of arfs say they dont appreciate building skills,) Being only about who can buy a better airplane. ( That is just generally rubbish and most of the guys who just love to fly yet dont yet have the skills or time to build or just inclination but love scale models.) and all the other reasons arf lovers are lower than snail spit. Then you tell them not to be defensive. Come on, for goodness sake.
If I buy and fly an arf, it is not because I want to compete against a built model, its because I like the plane and want to fly it, I think its fun .
And by the way, instant gratification, I spent four months building my 1/4 scale spitfire cockpit. 10 months just finishing the 1/4 p-51. 1 month just sanding my corsair. Years getting planes ready. Appreciate building skills, I think I can do that or how would I have learned to scratch build all the detail and accessories on my planes. And I think you are dead wrong and also I think you should get off the defensive. As I said, methinks thou doth protest too much, I do appreciate building skills, my own. I appreciate them very much and know I am lucky for them. That being said, I am secure enough in them that I dont demand everyone else appreciate them. I dont need that, do you need it. I just love all the scale planes I see. Tis is no competition. No rules.
Finally, there have been open competitions for years for beginners. No builder of the model declaration, just minimum documentation and a half way scale plane just to get the feet wet.
Nothing has changed, just the condescension level of the wannabee scale masters who are niether one level or the other.
Dont take it too seriously though Bill, no one is picking on you just because you dont like ARFs.
By the way, this is Satire, lighten up
good luck
Paul

cyclops2

I KNOW this forum is ------RC scale forum.

Not--scratch--own plans--Masters grade and wannabees-- or any other special interest group.

RC SCALE FORUM means it looks and flies like a real plane.

Even if is made of cow droppings and has a rubber motor with a metal prop.

Scratch builders get your own forum if you can not play with the rest of us.

We are just as good as you!!

abufletcher

Once again I'll weigh in here and say that in terms of this forum, my position is that anyone is welcome who has an interest in scale-like model aircraft. That means ARFs, ARC's, kits (museum scale and otherwise), scratch-built (by yourself or others), or even just photos of a neat model you saw somewhere.

I have no opinion whatsoever on ARFs in competition.

Stickbuilder

Paul,

See you at the field this morning. Frozen chickens at 20 paces.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

Stickbuilder

There is an ARF forum. See Ya.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

khodges

My Feedback: (1)

There also happens to be a scratch build forum. I guess that if ARF's aren't supposed to be in the scale forum, does that mean that only scratches can be discussed in the scratch forum? What if you scratch build an ARF? Can you kit a scratch-build? How about scratch-building a kit? I re-kitted an ARF once.......well a couple of times.[sm=what_smile.gif]

I really don't care who built it......... me, Stick, Abu, et al., or some Chinese guy on an assembly line. Scale means scale. If the model represents some full scale prototype, from the Wright Flyer to a Predator UAV, then it can come here for discussion, as far as I'm concerned, as well as the ARF forum. There's no statement in the header limiting either forum.

3dd

My Feedback: (6)

bill i have been building from kits since i was 9 years old and have built and flown many contests and do not fly only arf's.so if your statement is supposed to make me look defensive then you have failed at it i was just stating a simple fact that scale has gone arf also so if you are retired and still have time to build every plane from a kit good for you i have a bussiness to run and don't have time to build every plane from a kit but that does not mean i can't, don't take it to personaly ron h.

Stickbuilder

Uhhhh, Ron,

Next time you're in central Florida, look me up. You will probably find me at my business (minimum of 70 hours per week) so you're preaching to the choir here. I've been trying to tell these guys not to take it too seriously, but they won't let it go. I think that there should be classes for each type of scale model. It's not fair for an ARF to try to compete against a builders model. For example, could a H-9 Sopwith compete against a Proctor kit? Should a yound modeller with a bashed H-9 P-51 have to compete against a well done Ziroli plan built? I don't think so. I know that we are talking about the RCU forum here, but it's been overrun with ARF's, as has the warbird forum. It is to the point where you can't find a thread that you visited yesterday, because all the posts (most pertaining to the same ARF model) Count and see how many were dedicated to the H-9 Corsair when it came out. About the only spece that builder's can still go to is the Scratch built, or the vintage and antique forums. But not all of us are there either. I've even seen ARF's in the kit builder's forum. Think I'll take a nap now.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

LuftwaffeOberst

Scale is Scale, no matter who builds it. I voted Yes...if it measures up, it's Scale.


Peter Dowling aka Luftwaffe Oberst
AMA District II # 865404
Aero Modelers Club
Pulaski, NY

BlackSheep-1

I voted yes. In my opinion though, RCU's topic headings are way to general. Scale what? For what? How scale? It's laughable really; all of the forums are full of all types of models. I prefer and need much more stringent organization, the way these forums are set up put me off and for the most part I don't even bother looking for something. People can and do get used to doing things the wrong way, even if it's working against them, so I don't expect change. This topic and the responses just slightly amuse me, I really don’t care if profile planes are in here, this forum cant get any more meaningless.

Pappy

Ed

I think that this here Scale Forum is a great place to get away from profiles, foamies, and Ugly Sticks. Leave it alone. I can live with the ARF'ers, they have become a way of life. Personally, I think that ARF's are great;

for people with limited building skills.

abufletcher

In the end, any online forum is really just the community of people who choose to hang out there. And like in any community there are going to go the people you like, the ones you figure represent its "core" and the ones on the fringes.

I "live" in this community but I also occasionally visit RCSB and RC Groups (as well as a German-language forum called Warbirds) and each have their own atmosphere. I like the casualness of RCU and that fact that it's ultimately a much larger, though somewhat less focused, community than the others.

scalebirdman

My Feedback: (6)

Stick,

If you are really sick of arfs and want a true builders forum then jump over to www.rcscalebuilder.com I'm sure you are aware of the site. No arf's there. 'Course you are requested, in the spirit of the site, to make a donation to keep it up and running, but just a little goes a long way.

I myself find use in both sites. I keep my arf stuff here, and my builds on RCSB.

bla bla

Well, here's the answer.
RCU scale forum isn't about scale building, it's about scale owning, buying and operating and I think thats absolutely correct.
It's simple, non elitist and appeals directly to the Joe average RC consumer.

Thats exactly what this site is... one giant consumerised entity... that drives the market for the good of the market and NOT necessarily the hobby or sport.
I like everyone else, finds the level of discussion, building, information, examples etc etc over at RCSB of a complete different leauge. it's just so not RCU and it's down your throat, buy this marketing attitude!
It's doesn't drive the market for the good of the market.... it drives individuals... for the good of the sport/hobby!!!

RCU is just a place to go and have fun.
Build anything, say anything...have a fight... who the hell cares?
Certainly not RCU. They just want's those hits and ad-spend and you'll get that from the "Global John's" discussingn some ARF, buying it, crashing it then being neatly directed to another!
There's science behind these here forums.
Economic.

abufletcher

One thing about this though is that RCSB can be painfully slow. At least on my computer (with broadband access) it can take twice as long for pages on RCSB to load and uploading photos isn't as convenient there. That's one of the reason I chose to do my Snipe build here instead of there.

One of the reasons.

bla bla

It's not all about band width to receive... it's also about sending power.
You can have 26mbps line comming in but unless the site's being sent from a powerful source... you're going to have to wait!
RCSB won't be using the monster servers RCU is driving to deliver all the Ads, graphics and editorial.
It's far more home made.... and I'd guess, very likely opperating way beyond it's original parameteres.

Boomerang1

RCSB is just a little more 'hard core' than the scale forum here, it appears to be a builders site run by a builder for builders. But that's fine! If you are building & need to know something I cannot think of a better site to visit. It's a specialised site where RCU covers everything. - John.

ahmed_p51

Dear All

I am about to buy P-51 from Composit-ARF and i will finish it to scal as top gun quality BUT as long as it is all compsit does this will allow me to participate in a competation or not??

Thanks
Ahmed

abufletcher

Most scale competitions require you to be the "builder of the model" and assembling an ARF, regardless of how much detailing you do, doesn't count. So, no, you would not be able to compete with this model in most scale competitions. There are however some competitions that have a class which would include ARFs.

ahmed_p51

Thank you very much for your reply , does this include TOP GUN and FAI compitations or you mean TOP GUN only??

Thanks
Ahmed

abufletcher

I suggest you read through the TopGun rules before you make any decisions.

http://www.franktiano.com/TopGun/Top...%20Book207.pdf