Just out of curiosity . I have heard that the Camel had terrible spin , stall and recovery problems. Does anyone know how these problems affect the scale R/C replica ? Have they been engineered out somehow and if so how was it accomplished. [sm=confused.gif]

It depends on how closely you want to define scale. A really and for true scale model will tend to have similar characteristics ( withing the limits of scale effects) to the full size aircraft. Even most "scale" models don't scale airfoils, power loading, weight distribution and so on. By today's standards WWI fighters had VERY short nose moments, the mass of the aircraft was concentrated very close to the center of gravity and the center of gravity was rather far aft. Many of these aircraft (including the Camel and the Fokker Triplane) had divergent stability, meaning they would stay anywhere but where you put them. One of the reasons they stopped using rotary engines after the was was that they had been pushed to the practical limits of what physics would allow in terms of a light weight aircraft with a couple hundred pounds of gyroscopic mass hanging off the front end. Up to a point, the rotary engine was a miracle of applied technology. So to answer your question, models often have a more tolerant airfoil, they are balance in a manner that allows greater stability and the don't have the gyroscopic of the entire engine spinning round along with a relatively enormous propeller. There is an entire dissertations worth of factors that effect the stability and maneuverability of an aircraft but these are just a few of the factors. As far as it goes you shouldn't expect a WWI bird to fly like a pattern ship or a trainer. Even a tamed Camel will have it quirks, that's half the fun. If you are worried about the handling find a thread by someone who has built the SPECIFIC model of the camel you are considering and see what they have to say. For instance the Hanger 9 Camel and the Proctor/VK Camel are both very nice planes and are not that far off in size but they have different traits and handle a little differently.

Thank You. that was very clear. I have a vintage small scale Fokker DR-1 freeflight and it interests me to the point of wanting to build a nice R/C scale Camel. Probably close to 1/2A size perhaps with an OS .10. One step closer. [8D]

Simply put it was the gyroscopic and torque affects of the engine that made the real Camel a handful for the untrained pilot. Once these affects and what it took to correct for them were understood, in the hands of a quilified pilot, the Camel became arguably the best turn fighter of the war, as it's kill rate demonstrates.

With the model, the balance is critical. A friend has the Hanger 9 Sopwith Camel and it took many attempts to get the balance right. He found it very pitch sensitive. My guess is if you get the CG right, in the air the Camel will fly like most any biplane.

I'm flying a VK (pre-Proctor) Camel. It's a delight to fly. Yes, it is a WWI tail-dragging biplane and needs coordinated aileron and rudder to fly properly, but take-offs are no worse than any other tail-dragger and landings are pure joy as long as you keep some air flowing over the tail surfaces. I have well over 100 flights on it.

If you're looking to fly a small electrec powered Camel try the WWI forum on Wattflyer. There's a bunch of knowledgeable and willing to help guys on it.
Walt

I always hear people say this and what I always wonder is how does it fly if you DON'T use coordinated aileron and rudder? That is, what does the "unproperly flying" model do -- or not do? Does it refuse to turn? Does it slide in the turns?

Abu,
good question. The Sopwith has a slight adverse yaw which needs to be countered with rudder, but more importantly, without rudder you get a skidding turn in which the nose never comes around to track the turn --- it is always pointed a bit to the out side. In a full scale plane the pilot would be pushed to the out side of the turn a well. You can fly with out coordinating, but it looks --well--uncoordinated (-:

If this doesn't help, I'll try again.
Walt

Adverse Yaw is when the aileron in the down position turns the plane in the opposite direction of the bank. The down aileron has more drag than the up one; you use the rudder to counteract. That is why you put in differential aileron in many planes you have the up aileron travel more than the down so the drag is equal.

Very cool. So what are the very basic rules for building this type of aircraft? Keep the center of gravity low and foreward? What about slightly longer fuselage? Wouldn't it help with directional stability?

They don't fly all that bad, they just don't fly like a pattern plane. Rudders are small so there is a bit of tail wag and the under-camber wing makes too much lift when moving fast so it will climb. You just have to step up to the challenge. When you start changing the dimensions too much it starts loosing its bulldog charm.

Jeffie,
if you're not a contest scale type of builder there are two tricks I use on my WWI bipes. Lengthen the nose(often the cowl) about and inch and move the landing gear location forward about an inch. I've found that if the axle is even with the LE of the top wing (level the fuselage using the datum line and set a square on your building surface) these birds handle better on the ground and landing. Only the pickiest of scale guys will even notice. I know of a Camel that placed very high in a major scale event and not one judge noticed the l/g placement! Another cheat is to increase the rudder by about 25% (I had to do this on my sport scale Dr1). All this, of course, assumes the designer did not make these changes already.
I guess it'll sound like bragging, but the guys at my flying field always comment on how well my WWI birds handle (-:
Walt

No I don't compete in any kind of scale events I just like a scale appearance and easy handling. But I am just getting started and this is my fact gathering and idea phase.

Another "cheat" that is not very noticeable is increasing the stab size. That allows you to move the CG back, which reduces nose-overs and makes it easier to balance those snub nosed fighters. Jim

Regarding coordinated turns. Have you ever seen a video of a WWI or vintage biplane making a turn in what appears to be a tail low attitude. That is, the tail seems to be dragging to the inside of the turn so the the aircraft is really more side slipping around a turn. The adverse yaw is causing the top wing to lag behind, but the wing is making enough lift to fly the airplane around the turn. This can be a real drag (nyuk nyuk) for a marginally powered plane.