One of the fellow flier crashed my new Lear jet today. I didn't do CG check on it yet and told him repeatedly not to fly it but he thought it was ok and started to do long high speed runs across the runway. On one of the runs plane bounced off the runway as RT LG broke, stalled towards left, did 3 cart wheel rolls before coming to rest. Engine is OS 46 SF, prop was APC 10x8 but wasn't producing enough power to fly this model.

Weird thing about all this is, that he is very experienced model pilot, and have been flying at this flying field for over 10 years now, yet this all happened!!

Fuse is busted open from right side from firewall to back of wing saddle, formers are badly damaged, cowl is cracked, servo tray is damaged at back.

Wing sustained most damage as it got damaged from 3 areas, main lower right spar is damaged from wing root, right forward wing mounting dowel attachment on LE is broken off, root rib is cracked, another rib besides it is broken, rt LG block is broken, outer left tip tank is punctured from 2 spots, right tip tank is cracked open...

Now i need its plans and instruction manual from someone who wouldn't mind helping me out with rebuild of this bird. Let me know. Thanks

After taking off the cracked and damaged sheeting on the lower side of the wing you can see the internal damage, pictures are not to clear as this camera can't take good close up pictures.

Are you kidding us? Some OTHER guy at your field, took YOUR new jet, which you had told HIM not to fly and ran it back and forth across the runway until he CRASHED it. And now YOU need help rebuilding it?

No i'm not kidding anyone on here, this is how it happened and i can re built it myself but i just need plans basically so i can make formers w/out spending time figuring there shape out.

Btw this fellow is a local guy and i have known him for many years, yet this happened.

I think the exclamation is about the other guy at least not offering to fix it if he pressured you into flying it. I have never flown one but there was one at the field and it always looked like a handful. The faster it flew the more stable it got.

I was the guest at that field yesterday, honestly speaking i didn't like that field myself due to tight surrounds of it, one has to take off at high angle to avoid trees on northend of the runway and when coming into landing, you would have to come up to thresh hold and dive on to runway to land or come through narrow space between trees on southend also to avoid trees there!. No he didn't offered to fix it but offered $25 cash to resolve this issue or he wants me to buy a plane from him that he is selling for $150 and then he would take off $40 from the original price tag, its electric plane..

In the pictures below, you can see the main root rib is cracked at two spots and lower spar is also damaged plus all the damage that both tip tanks sustained..

So now what he is offering to me as compensation is like a slap on my face, just rebuilding this plane's time alone will be way more then his 2 figures put together...[:@]

If it happened truely as you have said, I'd throw a figure of 500.00 bucks at him and if he didn't come off with it quick,...I'd be repairing it with pieces of his *****.....

This is what he said in his defense:

Hello Sammy,
Sorry for the mishap on the lear, As I said, I wasn't going to takeoff on an iffy engine, but with the gear hitting a pot hole and breaking it went up in the air and full throttle runs confirmed that it didn't have enough power to go.
Anyhow good thing it is within reason to fix. I feel really bad I was on the sticks, I can do either of the following to help with the fix
If you don't want the electric plane, I can Offer you $25 cash.
OR
If you do want to buy the electric plane, I can take off $40 and you can have it for $110.
Don't take it on heart, **** like this happens in this hobby.
Take care

At this point i want to find plans and start fixing this plane, i don't want this thread to turn into bashing thread but just wanted to let you all know how some are, i'm not going to mention who it is at this point and i hope to resolve it peacefully.

After his lame offer, i have asked him to get me a used OS 50, OS55 FX or Webra 60 as fair compensation since he is local fellow modeler. This way once i rebuilt it, i would have appropriate engine for it.

Always good to take the hi road. At least it is not too bad. Great planes might have the manual on their web site.

Yes they may have the manual on GP's site but what about the plans?, i need actual plans or copies of them to make new reinforcements for the formers in the fuselage and ribs in the wing.

As for plane, well at this time, this was the only one i could fly and that was one of the main reasons why i bought it as RTF, now it's become a drag and the guy is now being ***** about paying fair compensation for it.

.

Well i hear ya abufletcher, it looks as things are going to settle out, not really the way i wanted but sort of in between towards the compensation.

Need Plans!!!
Now i really need plans for this Learjet, anyone who have them, please contact me asap as i will pay for the photocopies and shipping or just buy them and pay for the shipping.

I was there, he was not trying to fly the plane, just doing a couple of runs across the field. Sammy was right next to him, the plane hit a bump on the field - it is grass - and the right main gear broke, that bounced the plane into the air. At that point the pilot put full throttle into it, but the motor did not have enough umph to keep it going, the plane stalled and cartwheeled.

It was an accident.

Have you tried contacting GP for a set of plans? I did this a couple of years ago for their F-15 as I had a kit and no plans. They came through with a set.

FB

You can go to Great Planes web site and either download plans online or order plans from them. Go to the web site and look to the right side of the page. Click on "parts lists and materials" then go to bottom of that page and click on " discontinued lits" You can download the assembly manual on line or order the plans.

Your guys are partially right, i can down load the manual but not the plans from there website. I have looked into it and just to buy plans is few bucks (No problem) but to ship them is $25.00 plus brokerage fees and custom (maybe) to Canada. So if anyone has a set sitting around collecting dust, i would like to buy it and if you can send it USPS with cheaper shipping that would be great as i'm willing to pay few bucks for them.

Props4ever,

I've looked at your pictures, and it seems to me that you have plenty on hand with the wreckage to create any outlines necessary to make new parts from. I don't know how much rebuilding experience you have, but it's pretty normal to rebuild stuff by using the busted up pieces as templates. Hopefully, you haven't thrown anything away yet. Just a suggestion and good luck. Gary

Gary,

I hear you, well the thing is that i have numerous rebuilds and ground up restorations under my belt, heck at time it seems that i have more of these then kits i put together..

In case of this Learjet, i really don't want to do patch job, i want to make sure i get right parts or plans to make right size parts specially ribs and the do the rebuild on it. This model is very special to me and that is why i'm bitter at the guy who did all this to it, trust me if it was any other model that i would have had many flights on , i wouldn't be like this with it. GPlanes replied that they do have some parts for it, yet i asked for die-cut ribs if those are also available, if they are then i won't mind getting all from them and it will justify paying high shipping for the parts and plans all together at that point. I'll wait on this rebuild..

Bad form Sammy!

I was also there...he was absolutely not trying to fly the plane as he knew it was mechanically unsound. This was not a new Lear jet, but an old, beaten-up, well used, often repaired model with a worn out engine and a leaky fuel system. He was just making a couple of taxi runs at your request when he hit a bump and one of the landing gear broke off causing the plane to go airborn and stall. In an effort to try and save the plane he gave it full throttle and attempted to level off but the engine didn't have the power needed, so the plane wobbled for a moment, dropped a wing and cartwheeled. End of story! It was an honest accident.

Furthermore, in good faith and because he felt badly even though he could not be faulted, he offered to give you a 50% break on the price of a plane that you had already agreed to purchase from him prior to the accident. I know the pilot well. I've flown with him for years. He's helped me out countless times. He is not the kind of guy you go out and slander on public forums.

Really Bad Form Sammy!

Anyway, from what I could tell when I examined the model afterwards, it's not a difficult repair job. It was obvious that at least one broken former, the LG block and parts of the wing had already been repaired before.


Den

Well how is it that it's bad on me!, some of your facts are wrong and now that i didn't even slander the guy as all i mentioned what happened and now you are turning this thread into slandering thread!.

First of all this learjet was never crashed or had any structural patch work or rebuild on it, yes it's not new but well kept model until this happened.

Second it took time to get that engine running as it was old engine and that is when it was determined that this engine won't fly this model.
Leaky fuel was due tank being higher then engine and it was mounted on stock designed compartment not my fault..

Third i didn't asked him to do taxi on it, he took transmitter from my hands and when i looked at him, he said "It's ok, i won't fly it".

Forth since when do you do full throttle runs across the field at verge that aircraft would bounced off 5 feet in air if it hit pot hole!, the way it did!. Look at his message that i post in which he clearly said, he was doing full throttle runs on it!, not slow to medium taxi test as it should have been done.

Fifth if he just simply taxied this model at slow to medium speeds then how come it bounced off 5 feet into air!, it's obvious he had it at full throttle and engine couldn't fly it as it stalled and cart wheeled 3 times upon contact to the ground!

Sixth, model bounced of at almost 20-25 feet from end of runway, no way he should have had model going at that rate of speed so close to the end of runway.

It's very much obvious from all the damage that it was his negligence that almost totaled my model!. I repeatedly told him not to fly as it's CG was off or do high speed taxi runs but he was confident that it was ok as he once had this model in similar configuration and condition.

Now for your second part!

Again you are wrong, we did talked about his electric model but there was no deal firmed about it!, so get your facts straight first.

If he was so sorry he would have simply agreed to work with me as i simply asked for used engine instead his electric model as fair compensation, yet he had nerve to call me a piece of ART, then said his model is worth way more then my model as this lear was equipped with Multiplex radio system!, then again he offered me his electric model for half the price on his second attempt to convince me!.

Initially after the crash he offered me that model at $40 off his asking price, then in return i asked for used engine instead of his electric model he then insulted me yet again and then once more offered that model at %50 of his original price!..

At that point i told him to keep his expansive model to himself as i had enough of him and God is watching all this and he will compensate me fairly.

Sorry man but he clearly insulted me as if he slapped on my face and showed me his un-willingness to work with me peacefully.

I am the one who lost my model not him, i am the victim here as this was the only model that i could have flown as it was bought couple days before all this happened!..

WOW this is funny now, i just checked this guy DEN's profile and this is his only post on this site!, he also joined this month, maybe an hour ago!!.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/community/...1&memid=435297

So basically DEN joined in just to slander me and defend his friend as i noticed short while ago that the fellow who did all this to my model was watching this thread!

I am locking this thread down as it appears to have gone from a I need help thread to a lets flame each other thread, which is a violation of the RCU posting rules. Thanks Dave