Eindeckers anyone
 

I posted in the warbird forum about the Fokker Scourge and the consensus was this is a better place to get some more info. I've been wanting to build one for quite a while and I'm ready for a new project to fill the evenings.

I've been eyeing the Balsa USA .40 size and saw some reviews that said it was pretty good. Anyone out there flying this guy or his big brother? How is the flight performance? I'm assuming these fly somewhat scale and it obviously won't be an aerobat...but I would like it to have "minor" performance ability with the right powerplant. I was thinking a Saito .72 would be a good match. Will this be enough to tap whatever this plane is capable of? Any suggestions, even those of a different kit are appreciated.

Thanks!

RE: Eindeckers anyone
 

A Saito 72 in a BUSA Eindecker 40 would be total overkill. You might as well just buy an Ugly Stik and fly the heck out of it. A Magnum 52 is more than enough if you want a scale flying model.

RE: Eindeckers anyone
 

Built stock, the BUSA Eindecker 40 should probably only take about a month of evenings. It's a pretty basic model. It's best though to think of it as a dressed up sports model and really not try to get too much into the whole scale mindset. I couldn't and ended up trashing almost the entire kit and building 80% from scratch.

But for $80 I think it's a good kit and a good value for a model that's really fun at the field.

If you want to make a more serious forey into WWI modeling, I'd suggest one of the Flair kits or the Dynaflite SE5a -- or maybe Chris' pretty Sopwith Pup. A lot depends on your building experience.

RE: Eindeckers anyone
 

Thanks for the input Abufletcher. I think I saw your thread for your Eindecker, beautiful work. This would be my 1st attempt into the scale arena so perhaps the BUSA semi-scale Fokker would fit the bill. Thanks for the engine input as well. I don't want to have more power than the plane needs, but I also don't want it underpowered either. What was the AUW of your Eindecker?

RE: Eindeckers anyone
 

I fly a 40size with an OS 52FS and it's heaps of power. I modified mine so that it has working wing warping and full floating tail feathers. No one can believe it is a wing warper it flies so well. And it doesn't require an enlarged rudder or heaps of rudder mixed to the warping (in fact I've gone down to about 40%)

RE: Eindeckers anyone
 

Nice work there Breguet - those mod's are a huge improvement over the standard one! Is it just my imagination, or is your aerial positioned to look like the scale fuz stitching too?!

Cheers,

Cam

RE: Eindeckers anyone
 

It is indeed. The only thing I didn't do was a "stick" fuselage. This was a 'proof of concept' model for me before I go on to build a 1/5th scale EIII with a lot more detail.

RE: Eindeckers anyone
 

Yeah, that "alot more detail" bit is where I seem to be at the moment - about to dive into the fiddly bits on my 1/4 scale(ish) one. Didn't do warping etc, so have to distract them with details:D

Cam

RE: Eindeckers anyone
 

Here is a suggestion......since you are making your first entry into scale, how about a quarter scale E-III Eindecker. Bob Holman sells some great plans for this plane designed by Dana Lockwood. I used these plans for inspiration when I built my third scale E-I my first attempt at a scale competition plane. It is not a difficult set of plans and the end result is worth the extra effort. Baiscally the difference between building a sport rendition of a scale plane and building a scale plane is the outline. Sport planes usually deviate greatly from outline so that is it easy to build and allows the greatest number of modelers to end up with a good flying model. Why not start with a good outline and then detail only as much or as little as you want. Or keep it simple the first season and add details after you get it flying......that is kind of how I accomplished my project.
The plane took me from my first competition in the Sportsman class 3 seasons ago in which I did not even complete a flight to the expert level of competition and the Scalemasters this past season....I just kept adding details and improving my flying skills. It was both fun and very rewarding.

RE: Eindeckers anyone
 

Lovely detail Cam! I particularly like your pilot. Is he full length or only bust? Your cowling/panel work is also an excellent scale rendition. Art's plane is great too I have a video of it flying at the dawn patrol.

RE: Eindeckers anyone
 

Beautiful work Cam.

RE: Eindeckers anyone
 

Yeah, Cam, that's looking first class! I think I actually prefer your squiggles to mine!

My scale EIII (really built to blown up copies of the Joself Nieto technical drawings) was about 1/6 scale (sized to match the modified BUSA wings I used) but a little on the heavy side as this was my first all out scale model (as well as my very first RC build): about 8lbs. I chickened out and did the aileron thing. I used the BUSA kit's wing but then cut it in half and mounted it in the scale location.

As Art mentioned the BUSA kit is not really very scale at all. In fact, there's almost nothing scale about the outline at all. It's really just a gussied up Ugly Stik. The kit uses neither a full flying rudder or stab (and both have a noticeably non-scale outline), the fuse is too short and not the right shape. The wing is mounted way too far back, and the ABS cowl is at least twice as deep as scale.

Still, the stock BUSA Eindecker is a fun model to fly (I'm told) and they always get a lot of attention at the field. But it's not exactly a "first scale model."

BTW, one of my "favorite pet peeves" about Eindecker models is the way people make a cutout in the side cowl to accommodate the wing. That's bass-akwards. On the original the WING had a notch in it to accommodate the side cowling!

RE: Eindeckers anyone
 

Here's another HONEST flying shot! :D

RE: Eindeckers anyone
 

Oh, and Camdyson, I finally found the early Patee cross pattern I used on my office computer. I'll post it here later today.

RE: Eindeckers anyone
 

I'd just like to speak in defense of wing-warping. IT IS NOT THAT HARD! On my 40 size BUSA EIII I even use a standard servo. Other experienced modelers I've let fly her can't believe it hasn't got aileron control. Don't believe the doom sayers. Give it a go. It looks great, is a real talking point and it won't diminish your flying pleasure!

RE: Eindeckers anyone
 

Actually, I could just kick myself for not going with wing-warping. But this was my very first RC model.

Breguet, I assume though that you didn't use the stock BUSA wing. I would think it is way too fat and solid to effectively twist.

RE: Eindeckers anyone
 

I undercambered the wing by cutting a curve between the front spar and trailing edge sheet. I then put just a single 1/8th x 3/8th spar at the now thiner rear spar point. No cracks or creaks and even when covered with solartex it warps beautifully.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_UcZlreymA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tETzLmtzJ98

These show the operation.

RE: Eindeckers anyone
 

That looks great! I really wish I had thought to modify my wing. I built that part of the kit first and it wasn't until after that point that "scale mania" took hold. I think if I hadn't been pressed for time (I was leaving the country) I would have gone back and redone the wing.

I like your way of modifying the BUSA wing. I wish I had thought of that. The kit's wing is build solid so that the flying/landing wires aren't needed.

RE: Eindeckers anyone
 

Breguet - my pilot is the Aces of Iron one - torso only. Their site's very informative wrt painting tips too.

1/4 scale has some advantages for Eindeckers - availability of nice pilots and accessories being one. Also qualifies for "Mammoth scale" here in Aus., or the U.S. equivalent.

Cheers,

CAm

RE: Eindeckers anyone
 

Camdyson,
Love your cowl pattern! How'd you do it?

RE: Eindeckers anyone
 

CC,

The (aluminium) cowl was rubbed back with fine steel wool (0000) to get a uniform matt finish, as was the self-adhesive aluminium covering on the fuz (BEFORE applying it). The squiggles were done with same grade steel wool, wrapped and elastic-banded over a mandrel in my Dremel. Trick was getting the steel wool tool fine enough to get thin sqiggles - first try was too thick so I re-did it and this is the result.

Worst bit was constantly replacing worn steel wool on the mandrel - probably replaced it 20 times by the time I was done. (Tell me if this is gibberish and I'll post a pic.!)Sqiggles are pure artistic licence, as every photo I've seen looks a bit different anyway. Now plan to add the side viewing hatches, maybe cowl "strap", a few fake fasteners, etc. Rest of fuz will also get assorted reinforcement patches, stitching, steps etc - all just "roughly" scale.

Wing will get aluminium walkways, compass etc too - again just for a bit of scale effect but not 100% accurate.

Cam

RE: Eindeckers anyone
 

Very impressive! Some nice craftsmanship on these planes.

RE: Eindeckers anyone
 

I think part of what appeals to people about the Eindecker is that you can make it as simple or as complex as you want it to be. Build a stock BUSA kit is a couple of weeks, paint on a couple of crosses, and have fun. Or build a miniature working replica (with wing-warping of course) from scratch and spend a year or more. Or make yourself a HUGE 1/2 scale one that you can almost imagine sitting in.

Once in the air though, they're just plain fun.

RE: Eindeckers anyone
 

Camdyson, here's the version of the early Patee cross I ended up using. It seemed the best match for the documentation I had. I've seen photos of the EIII with the "later style" German cross -- but I think these were the ones operated by naval units. The thin arm and thin "foot" ones that are used on a lot of model eindeckers, for example the BUSA kit decals, don't look like anything I've ever seen in any period photo.

I printed this out on thick photo paper, then transfered it to thin cardboard, traced it onto the white background in pencil and then handpainted the crosses. From what I understand the most authentic way of doing it would be to paint the cross and then fill in the area around it with white.

RE: Eindeckers anyone
 

BTW, here's a great site on the BUSA Eindecker that was inspirational in getting me started on some minor kit-bashing that turned into mostly scratch-building.

http://www.angelfire.com/indie/aerostuff/eindeckero.htm

You can also see tons of those thin German cross that I don't think actually existed.