borealis

I think that, apart from peculiar rules, the base rules used in different clubs are in common. Upon that we could just think about 'game modes', such as capture the base (I remember you play that way in Russia, _am I wrong?) o battle with a target to destroy/defend, or the usual 'team deathmatch'.

karel47

hal i have send marc a email on this matter he will answer soon

HAL_HUSKER

Yes, you are right.

Yesterday we talked with Sev about the concept.
ETOArmour is one ofthe Sponsors of the Event.Sev will advise with more details about ETOsponsorship.
We will bring the Team Cup, for the Winner Team in theWorld Championship RCTank Battles 2012.

We are working on one trial information web-site, where the updateswill be uploaded.

Sev, later also share our ideasregarding the concept of the Championship and the basic rules.

1sgt

Just another concideration, unless ETO armor brings along alot of spare parts, you may want to concider having it near a well supplied Hobby shop so any breakdowns can be easily repaired. I would imagine it would be terrible to travel a great distance and then tear up a TU with no spares available. Just a thought from across the pond. Hmmm, maybe I can convince my wife that would be a good time to visit her family in Holland. Did someone say European roadtrip LOL.

Jim

Capitan America69

Good morning everyone.
Send me the link to stay up to date with the news of the rules and the league in 2012?
Thank you and I and my group RCTANKIR we wait.
Hello Capitan America

HAL_HUSKER

May this be considered as preliminary "RCTANKIR" Team Confirmation (Italy)of the Participation?

blitzkrieg65

I love this idea and hope you guys make it happen. After attending Danville, having a multiple day event is way cool and adding some competetive battles does give it an extra level of fun or frustration depending on how you do. Count me in if we can ever field a US team, maybe not 2012 but maybe the following year, it gives us time to save up. And you guys time to work out the kinks, logisitcs, facilities of hosting an event like this.
What about Battle Tanks Netherlands, they have a huge event each year, I think, maybe its not central enough?

Good luck guys, keep us posted

Phil

(The Blitz)

HAL_HUSKER

Phil, thanks for input..
Personally I would be very delighted if Guys from Germany and Netherlands reply in a well.

</p>

sevoblast

OK, Hal, here's my concept.

Gentlemen, I have sponsored two meets at Danville way back when, before I moved off the Florida Coast. It is a LOT of work, but I know the drill.

1Sgt, I will bring spare TU's etc, and will contact some very close friends and business associates in Germany about coming and bringing lots of parts.

We will plan for a two or three day event. The logistics for EU citizens is not difficult. Hal and his team, and my wife, VCO, will of course have to get visas for EU. Should be no problem, just a bit of a hassle. I don't need one. My and VCO's only problem is we have 9 'children', and finding a sitter for them and the compound for a couple weeks is not easy. However, we have a year to address that problem. If needs be, I will come without the ever charming and gentle VCO. I'm sure I'll pay a pound of flesh for that if it comes to pass.

There will be several events at the meet. There will be driving and shooting competitions on a closed course, with points awarded or deducted for success or mishaps. This will also be a timed event. A speed chart will be made to handicap each tank with it's tested max speed. Should be interesting, and the points won in that competition will be counted towards the event top winner. And what do you lads think of a modeling competition at the meet? It can be done.

The battle competitions will be with teams of 4 tanks. Points will be awarded for victory in one battle and also the kills made in the one battle. My game plan for them is to video all the battle, and each tanker will have a monitor with him to count kills, and to also monitor the tanker if he is killed. The monitors I propose to be other tankers who are not in that particular battle.

I also propose to have a campaign battle, perhaps an hour or two each day, with the final campaign on the last day. Winners in the campaign will also be assigned points. The preliminary plan is Axis against Allies, but if needs be to even up the odds some, we will welcome deserters to the needed team. Being a cunning old guy, I'll toss in a monkey wrench or two for the campaigns to make it interesting.

There will also be a check in tank inspection, and the tank will have a stamp affixed to the TU's and electronics after passing. Any changes to TU's and/or electronics and the tank must be reinspected. Speed chart will be simple, max speed allowed is the published max road speed of a particular tank, + 2 KPH. Turret rotation speeds will be checked, as will be elevation and depression. For Sturmgeshutzen, JP and Jagdtiger, elevation and traverse will be checked. I will make a chart for that spec also, with allowable variants. Emitter and receiver will also be inspected, for both shooting and the ability to receive hits. Lowered apples will be allowed as long as the tank will take a hit from all 4 quadrants at 10 to 15 m. The DMD/TO or other electronics will have to be set to the weight class designated at check in. IOW a Tiger, Pershing, JT, IS 1 or 2, KV, will be set at heavy. Panther, Sherman, P4, T 34 etc will be medium. P3, Stuart, etc will be light. After each battle or campaign, the surviving tanks will be driven to the battlefield inspection pit and fired at until they die. If they don't die in the test, they are disqualified from that battle. I know that from time to time the Tamiya system will reset itself, and that little foible will be addressed in the rules also. Basically, it is an infrequent glitch in the system, and will be allowed to happen as 'fortunes of war'.

Gentlemen, I went to Danville many times before VCO and I decided to tie the knot back in '06. I well know some of the rather crafty lads who are, or used to be, there and at other meets. I am aware of the accidently fogged apple innards, the old scotch tape on the apple prism trick, the pulling down the speed servo gain on the transmitter in the speed tests, the 45 degree main gun elevation deal, and rather a few more tricks to get that little extra advantage. This will be a fair and clean event, with skill, good tank mechanics, team work, and the fortunes of war the only deciding factors.

Also, as an event sponsor, I will not participate in the points competitions as far as winning. If for instance I have the highest point score in the driving and shooting competition, it does not count. The next highest point scorer is the winner. If my team wins in the 4 tank battles or the campaigns, all well and fine, but I will not compete in the 'top dog of the meet' points score. Besides, as a sponsor and coordinator, I will in all probability have little time to compete anyway. VCO will compete, though.

Any ideas or suggestions from you lads, feel free to email me from here. Most of you know my email anyway. As most of you know also, I am just about always around.

Capitan America69

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1sgt

Sev,
I like the idea of a modeling competition ( I can just imagine the quality displayed ), but think that the Tanks must also have to battle at least 50% of scheduled battles . That way you avoid the shelf queens, unless you want to have different catagories ie: battle tank, static, vehicle, etc. Just more thoughts from the other side of the pond.

Jim

HAL_HUSKER

The point in compeition is for participants to demonstrate their abilities to drive and shoot + overcome obstacles and this will be timed...The result will be calculated by formula, considering allthe parameters.

this is not easy.
And beleive me - we can do it slightly different - A Team passes (this can be one member from the Team) this competition... And the rules will be also easy to understand.

TankBattles according to our plan will take more than 50% of the time, for sure.

karel47

the shelfqueens will battle full force man, don't be afraid they are up to their jobs

Ex_Pat_Tanker

Before we all get in too deep about this, I would suggest that maybe the best approach to a first Pan-European scale 'tankfest' would be to just get everybody together and enjoy the experience...? Maybe the established continental clubs are more organised, and more receptive to the competition side of things, but the UK is not.

From my own experience of trying to get organised battling set up in the UK, I can tell you that people get turned off by lots of rules and regulations. Having had the opportunity to go to Danville last month before I moved back to the UK, I can say that the format for that weekend would work well - not having too many regulations beyond ensuring that nobody is deliberately doing anything to cheat would be easy for most people to agree too. The inspection process was easy and efficient (James, you are a star for doing that on the Friday !), and there were plenty of guys willing to help out with adjustments where needed.

The idea of awarding trophies sounds like a good thing - but having talked to the 'old hands' at Danville (and our CO in Detroit, who used to run model boat clubs and competitions) as soon as you make it a competition, you will attract the "win at all costs" crowd who spoil things for everyone else... better to look at this meet as a case of 'we all win', because we will make new friends and strengthen the hobby as a result. Friendly rivalry / competition can follow if the group wants to go that way, but at least then you will see your opponent as a friend and not as an 'enemy' to beat...

Just my 0.02p worth - I hope we can make this happen, because it has the potential to be every bit as enjoyable as my recent trip to Danville
Mart

borealis

I agree with Ex_Pat_Tanker.
Let's keep rules as simple as possible, and to agree about differencies using common sense. From my point of view the best result of such an event will not be the winner, but to partecipate and meet fellow tankers from abroad. We might even just meet and play for fun!
Championship and cups and trophies are a nice addendum, but not the main interest to me. Exchanging experiences, talking and having a good time together is much more important.
Special prizes might be foreseen as 'best model tank of the competition', 'most amazing one', 'most original one'. And then maybe prizes for the results of battles such as 'single player most kills' and 'best team', but all partecipating teams are winners just for being there.

rivetcounter

I have received messages from Hal and Karl, I have been visiting family for the last 5 days so have been out of touch, there are a few things to take into account firstly it was Europe that saw 6 years of bloody fighting and occupation many countries are still understandably touchy about this subject, Germany does not allow public battle displays and many divisional insignia are illegal mainly SS, hosting an event like this there may very well be met with disapproval the same would happen in France, Holland has battle events though again certain divisional emblems are not welcome, here in Belgium things are more relaxed as Karl says Poteau may be a good location this is in the Ardennes the Owner of this small museum is Dutch and speaks at least 3 languages the only problem is that this was the site of an Ambush during the offensive, hosting an event at this place may cause offence to the locals and some veterans for obvious reasons, firstly it would be wise if Sev dropped them a line stating his own history and what would happen at the event this may be very good business for the museum.

For our US friends who are complaining about the cost of fuel at the moment here in Belgium Diesel is 1.30€ per Ltr there are 4.5 Ltr to a gallon that’s 5.85€ a gallon or $8.47 petrol would be over $10 per gallon places like Germany fuel is more expensive and the most expensive of all is England, Europe includes Russia down to Spain and Portugal this is a far larger land mass than the US, if you included Canada and down to Argentina then that might be different.

Pershing.Driver

Perhaps Bob can include some video as well.

Ex_Pat_Tanker

1.35 UK pounds per litre for unleaded here - remind me again, why on earth did I want to move home...?

Anyway...

I'd love to visit the Ardennes, but thats going to be one hell of a trek for the Russian crew, similarly a meeting in Eastern Germany will be a pain for the UK club (not to mention that there will be a whole lot less folks who speak English out that way - which is our common language, on this forum at least) Maybe the Russian guys are close enough to each other that they can hire a bus and come over in a group? The UK club are pretty spread out so the logistics of meeting up and getting on a single coach is going to be tough to say the least...

I don't see too much of a problem with the tanks so long as people cover up the 1940's vintage German recognition flags on their tanks, and don't come in period costume. Maybe your 1/6th scale tanks are a little more "in your face" shall we say , but the insignia on the 1/16th stuff is small enough not to be noticeable - ok so we have German tanks, but German museums have them too, so what's the problem so long as all obvious Nazi symbols are hidden or too small to notice, right?

I've driven over 10 hours to go to Danville from Detroit, but that trip didn't include catching ferry's and crossing international borders (no to mention the gas is a damned sight cheaper!). This is not a simple undertaking, but lets see if we can make it happen?

sevoblast

I will be working more on this project during this week. There's a couple lads I will contact in EU about a possible venue for the meet. This will not be arranged in a short time, that I know. Also, the logistics of getting everyone to the meet will be interesting. I'm sure the Moskau lads will come by train, as will we. Driving from here can be done, but the last two winters have virtually destroyed two major roads in Ukr for long stretches, I'm talking one is gone right down to the foundation, just the odd cement plate here and there, for many kilometers. Benzine prices have also risen here, so that's an added incentive to go by train. Of course, coming by train limits what we can bring, but I can ship parts to friends well before the event, pick them up in EU, and then after the meet ship what's left back to Krim.

As for offending the locals, there will always be some who will take umbrage no matter what you do. Here, the vets, what few remain, have no problem with Germans, at least in this neck of the woods. It's the young ones who can, and on two occasions have (to their sorrow) said a little something about my ancestry. Any offending symbols on the tanks can easily be covered over with masking tape for the event. However, I sincerely hope no one is foolish enough to appear in any offensive clothing or wear offensive insignia. That is not good form, and I'll address that in the final ROE and instructions. We must always remember that most of us will be guests at this meet, or any meet, and must treat the locals and visitors with courtesy and be polite. Basically, when we leave we want nothing left of us except our footprints and good memories.

On the other hand, you have very active and large RC plane clubs in EU, and I've seen some of the models. I would aver than none of ours would be any more offensive, and in many cases much less offensive, to anyone.

Hal and I do have a lot of work to do in this project, but we will try mightily to pull it off.

If anyone has a good idea of the laws in Germany, Holland, and Belgium, please chime in. I know that in Germany, at least as of 10 years ago, displaying Nazi symbols was still forbidden UNLESS it was the real thing and of historic significance, witness the removal of the cover plates in railroad museums covering for instance the swastika.

I will keep the Rules of Engagement (ROE) as simple as possible, just the basics, and still try to cover all, within reason. They will be published here and other forums when we have them formulated, and they will be open for discussion and modification. We want to have a fun event and leave good memories for all. Competition does sometimes bring out the worst (and the best) in some people, but that's just the way it is.

rivetcounter

I have been to events in Germany and the rules are simple no Nazi emblems no SS these are not just banned but are also illegal what is meant by no SS is again simple regardless of scale even down to 1/72 no unfirms including camo the patterns are well known, divisional markings including the key and crossed key if your tank has these on then cover them with tape and remove figures the only place where this is acceptable is in a museum on the real thing, Germans are quite happy to talk about the war but don’t ask where there grandparents served, yes you will see on German forums people displaying various emblems but they don’t in public and the biggest no no regardless of colour size shape style is a Totenkopf or skull this is completely illegal, Karl is best placed to answer Belgium and Holland.

karel47

Serv - Hall;

if you want i can go talk to the guy of the Poteau museum to explain what we want but wehaven't a battlefield out of the there, but the museum have a huge terrotorium on it own, maybe we can arrange a battlefield over there

HAL_HUSKER

Karel,
please do but keep also in mind as following - logistically we need to have the BattleField (BF) and the host team, too.

There are a lot of questions, thatthe host team will need to solve at the first stage and during the Event.

Here are some initially:
- who will prepare the BattleField?
- How it will look like (keeping in mind initially proposed off-road compettion + tank-battles)? We can make the landscape design, but somebody needs to build it. Therefore and that is why the question of host-team is being raised.
- I am checking the question about houses, how we can make them cost effective. Question about trees is still open.

The question with the hosting Country is also evaluated with my Check Colleagues, that could help us in BFarrangement...

(I propose to skype - we do it with Sev already on regular basis).

karel47

yes that's a whole lot of things, we don't have expirence with battlefields, first of all we have to know if the owner of poteau want such a event then we con arrange something

its about a 2 hour drive i can say not this weekend but the weekend after i can go talk to him if you like that and see what is possible

karel47

yes w'll do , i have to leave now but will be back into 2 hours

karel47

he Hal am on skype