Clark TK22 and Tamiya Battle Unit
05-06-2013 | 09:34 AM
#1
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From: Roswell, GA
Clark TK22 and Tamiya Battle Unit
All, I was testing my Tk22 against a Tamiya tank last weekend in an effort to validate it was 100% consistent with the Tamiya settings for a "medium" tank.
What i found was that if I use the default Tamiya medium tank settings in the clark personalization the tank does not exhbit speed reduction if it is hit. When I manually also changed the speed reduction to be 50% for low damage and 75% for major, when the tank had 5 hits the turret rotation and vehicle movement stopped. It would still fire and gun elevation but movement nor rotation worked. The sixth hit would knock it out. So it appears there is a relationship between the speed reduction and other tank operations. While that is interesting as a way to show major damage, it is not consistent with the Tamiya settings.
Anyone else notice this and have a solution?
That said I am a huge fan of these boards!
Thanks. Joe<br type="_moz" />
What i found was that if I use the default Tamiya medium tank settings in the clark personalization the tank does not exhbit speed reduction if it is hit. When I manually also changed the speed reduction to be 50% for low damage and 75% for major, when the tank had 5 hits the turret rotation and vehicle movement stopped. It would still fire and gun elevation but movement nor rotation worked. The sixth hit would knock it out. So it appears there is a relationship between the speed reduction and other tank operations. While that is interesting as a way to show major damage, it is not consistent with the Tamiya settings.
Anyone else notice this and have a solution?
That said I am a huge fan of these boards!
Thanks. Joe<br type="_moz" />
05-06-2013 | 09:58 AM
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From: Sellersville, PA
RE: Clark TK22 and Tamiya Battle Unit
ORIGINAL: macnjam
All, I was testing my Tk22 against a Tamiya tank last weekend in an effort to validate it was 100% consistent with the Tamiya settings for a "medium" tank.
What i found was that if I use the default Tamiya medium tank settings in the clark personalization the tank does not exhbit speed reduction if it is hit. When I manually also changed the speed reduction to be 50% for low damage and 75% for major, when the tank had 5 hits the turret rotation and vehicle movement stopped. It would still fire and gun elevation but movement nor rotation worked. The sixth hit would knock it out. So it appears there is a relationship between the speed reduction and other tank operations. While that is interesting as a way to show major damage, it is not consistent with the Tamiya settings.
Anyone else notice this and have a solution?
That said I am a huge fan of these boards!
Thanks. Joe
All, I was testing my Tk22 against a Tamiya tank last weekend in an effort to validate it was 100% consistent with the Tamiya settings for a "medium" tank.
What i found was that if I use the default Tamiya medium tank settings in the clark personalization the tank does not exhbit speed reduction if it is hit. When I manually also changed the speed reduction to be 50% for low damage and 75% for major, when the tank had 5 hits the turret rotation and vehicle movement stopped. It would still fire and gun elevation but movement nor rotation worked. The sixth hit would knock it out. So it appears there is a relationship between the speed reduction and other tank operations. While that is interesting as a way to show major damage, it is not consistent with the Tamiya settings.
Anyone else notice this and have a solution?
That said I am a huge fan of these boards!
Thanks. Joe
Doesn't really matter what class the tank is set as far as light, medium, or heavy in the Clark board itself for damage state percentage comparison, as the damage defaults are set as -12.5% for slight damage & -25% for heavy damage, the same for all tank classes. Meaning, just because you change the class of tank on the Clark board, the damage states (in percentages of slowing movement) is not affected or changed. The only thing which a class change affects in damage state is how many hits a tank takes before going into one of those 2 specific states.
With all the variations of tank setups, everyone will have to adjust these settings according to their own tank setup & weight, & try to get the tank to slow an approximate amount as compared to a Tamiya tank of the same type taking the same amount of hits.
You went from a default of -12.5% / -25% slowing damage states, which you say didn't seem to show any slowing, all the way to -50% / -75% damage states, which made you a motionless pillbox. Try some of the lower settings in between those for each damage state to see if there is a mix which will slow the tank at both stages, but at least still allow some movement too.
Try -37.5% / -50% or -37.5% / -%62.5% for the damage states instead. Hopefully you will find a combination which will work for your setup appropriately.
Also, the Clark boards do add another aspect of damage, as you found out, the turret should slow just like the movement. I'm not sure Tamiya has that happen, & if they don't, then I guess this is one aspect which will never be identical, because there is no way to turn off damage simulation for just the turret alone.
Good luck, let us know how more settings perform, as well as let us know more about your tank, like what is it, what gearboxes are being used, what weight is the tank, type of tracks ... etc, the more info the better to help others possibly dial in damage for their similar tanks!
~ Craig ~
05-06-2013 | 10:30 AM
#3
RE: Clark TK22 and Tamiya Battle Unit
Craig,</p>
I don't own a Clark board as of yet but I am considering getting one for my Elefant & T-34 when the time comes. I am curious as to how Clark goes about simulating the damage. As to your statement below</p>
"Also, the Clark boards do add another aspect of damage, as you found out, the turret should slow just like the movement. I'm not sure Tamiya has that happen, & if they don't, then I guess this is one aspect which will never be identical, because there is no way to turn off damage simulation for just the turret alone."
</p>
As far as I can tell in operating all three of my Tamiya tanks in battle, Tamiya does not model damage to the turret rotation or the gun elevation for that matter, in fact the turret rotation is actually proportional no matter what the damage level.</p>
Why is there no way to turn off the damage simulation to the turret? Are they merely reducing the voltage to the various systems on board to simulate the damage or is it being controlled by software/firmware to simulate the damage? If it is software/firmware there should be a way to isolate that circuit and leave the voltage level unchanged, not that slowing the rotation is a bad thing when the tank is damaged but it would put the tank at a disadvantage in relation to Tamiya Battle System equipped tanks..
If they are lowering the voltage to all on board systems then my question would be, does the voltage to the IR emitter and the Apple get lowered as well? If so then that may need to be sorted out. Reducing the voltages to the emitter would at least cause a reduction in range and maybe inhibit it's operation altogether as damage increases. Reducing the voltage to the Apple would likely result in a lack of sensitivity, so it may not detect a hit unless the opponent is very close. </p>
Do you know how the damage simulation is controlled? Has anyone tested the battle system extensively?</p>
I would be interested in knowing the answers before I purchase any of these for my tanks.</p>
Steve</p>
05-06-2013 | 10:53 AM
#4
RE: Clark TK22 and Tamiya Battle Unit
Tamiya systems do not lower turret rotation that i have ever seen. Nor should they for damage as the turret functions did not necessarily suffer due to damage unless their was a direct link between engine performance and turret function for any given tank. a tank that used an electrical system to run the turret may not have been affected as a turret that was hydraulic may have been effected. Too many variables to simulate.
05-06-2013 | 10:55 AM
#5
Senior Member
RE: Clark TK22 and Tamiya Battle Unit
I think with amount of Clark boards sold we are about to find out.
My opinion has always been that the boards need to be 100% compatible with Tamiya as a default and then add the extra features.
I was not aware that the damage on the Clark boards also affected the turret rotation as I have never battled with a Clark board. This will put the Clark boards at a disadvantage when up against Tamiya , and now the big debate will start about why people are so concerned about being compatible with the old Tamiya system when the technology is marching forward, to which most of us will answer, because it is
Again my chant is backward 100% compatible with the existing Tamiya standard before adding on new bells and whistles. El mod had a feature where they had turret and track damage, and we know what happened to that. They quit making it because no one used it as the Tamiyas would just eat you up..
I will put my Clark equipped KV to the test and see what I find. Clark has been listening and making some changes when consumers have asked so there is a chance that he can do something to make the turret rotation damage user selectable. IT is probably a flash memory programming change that could be done on future product runs.
My opinion has always been that the boards need to be 100% compatible with Tamiya as a default and then add the extra features.
I was not aware that the damage on the Clark boards also affected the turret rotation as I have never battled with a Clark board. This will put the Clark boards at a disadvantage when up against Tamiya , and now the big debate will start about why people are so concerned about being compatible with the old Tamiya system when the technology is marching forward, to which most of us will answer, because it is
Again my chant is backward 100% compatible with the existing Tamiya standard before adding on new bells and whistles. El mod had a feature where they had turret and track damage, and we know what happened to that. They quit making it because no one used it as the Tamiyas would just eat you up..I will put my Clark equipped KV to the test and see what I find. Clark has been listening and making some changes when consumers have asked so there is a chance that he can do something to make the turret rotation damage user selectable. IT is probably a flash memory programming change that could be done on future product runs.
05-06-2013 | 11:12 AM
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From: Sellersville, PA
RE: Clark TK22 and Tamiya Battle Unit
ORIGINAL: Shark27
Craig,</p>
I don't own a Clark board as of yet but I am considering getting one for my Elefant & T-34 when the time comes. I am curious as to how Clark goes about simulating the damage. As to your statement below</p>
"Also, the Clark boards do add another aspect of damage, as you found out, the turret should slow just like the movement. I'm not sure Tamiya has that happen, & if they don't, then I guess this is one aspect which will never be identical, because there is no way to turn off damage simulation for just the turret alone."</p>
As far as I can tell in operating all three of my Tamiya tanks in battle, Tamiya does not model damage to the turret rotation or the gun elevation for that matter, in fact the turret rotation is actually proportional no matter what the damage level.</p>
Why is there no way to turn off the damage simulation to the turret? Are they merely reducing the voltage to the various systems on board to simulate the damage or is it being controlled by software/firmware to simulate the damage? If it is software/firmware there should be a way to isolate that circuit and leave the voltage level unchanged, not that slowing the rotation is a bad thing when the tank is damaged but it would put the tank at a disadvantage in relation to Tamiya Battle System equipped tanks..
If they are lowering the voltage to all on board systems then my question would be, does the voltage to the IR emitter and the Apple get lowered as well? If so then that may need to be sorted out. Reducing the voltages to the emitter would at least cause a reduction in range and maybe inhibit it's operation altogether as damage increases. Reducing the voltage to the Apple would likely result in a lack of sensitivity, so it may not detect a hit unless the opponent is very close.</p>
Do you know how the damage simulation is controlled? Has anyone tested the battle system extensively?</p>
I would be interested in knowing the answers before I purchase any of these for my tanks.</p>
Steve
Craig,</p>
I don't own a Clark board as of yet but I am considering getting one for my Elefant & T-34 when the time comes. I am curious as to how Clark goes about simulating the damage. As to your statement below</p>
"Also, the Clark boards do add another aspect of damage, as you found out, the turret should slow just like the movement. I'm not sure Tamiya has that happen, & if they don't, then I guess this is one aspect which will never be identical, because there is no way to turn off damage simulation for just the turret alone."</p>
As far as I can tell in operating all three of my Tamiya tanks in battle, Tamiya does not model damage to the turret rotation or the gun elevation for that matter, in fact the turret rotation is actually proportional no matter what the damage level.</p>
Why is there no way to turn off the damage simulation to the turret? Are they merely reducing the voltage to the various systems on board to simulate the damage or is it being controlled by software/firmware to simulate the damage? If it is software/firmware there should be a way to isolate that circuit and leave the voltage level unchanged, not that slowing the rotation is a bad thing when the tank is damaged but it would put the tank at a disadvantage in relation to Tamiya Battle System equipped tanks..
If they are lowering the voltage to all on board systems then my question would be, does the voltage to the IR emitter and the Apple get lowered as well? If so then that may need to be sorted out. Reducing the voltages to the emitter would at least cause a reduction in range and maybe inhibit it's operation altogether as damage increases. Reducing the voltage to the Apple would likely result in a lack of sensitivity, so it may not detect a hit unless the opponent is very close.</p>
Do you know how the damage simulation is controlled? Has anyone tested the battle system extensively?</p>
I would be interested in knowing the answers before I purchase any of these for my tanks.</p>
Steve
However, I am presuming it is by reducing power to the intended areas where damage simulation is being used (drive motors, turret motor, elevation motor), & I highly doubt the voltages across the entire board are reduced, otherwise the speaker would lower in volume very noticeably as well, which I didn't notice when testing my KV-1 at all. So I also doubt the IR electronics will be hindered or lessened in any way too when either of the damage states are in effect.
If Tamiya doesn't slow either of those other functions, then Clark board users (in turreted tanks) may find themselves at a slight disadvantage when battling tanks using Tamiya electronics, with them not being able to turn off either function individually in the board's settings. I have emailed Clark to see if an option could be added to turn off turret & barrel damage simulation separately from drive motor damage simulation ... though I'm not sure at this point any more of these tweaks would be possible with current board structure & memory constraints, or if Clark would deem them a necessary change he could make available on future TK22 boards. I know it couldn't be done on TK20 boards, as they are at their programming limits, so if you didn't want turret/barrel damage simulation, the only option would be to talk Clark into removing them from the boards completely, rather than an option which could allow them turned On/Off.
~ Craig ~</p>
05-06-2013 | 11:23 AM
#9
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From: Sellersville, PA
RE: Clark TK22 and Tamiya Battle Unit
ORIGINAL: YHR
To be clear Tamiya battle damage has zero effect on the turret functions
To be clear Tamiya battle damage has zero effect on the turret functions
~ Craig ~
05-06-2013 | 01:26 PM
#10
Senior Member
RE: Clark TK22 and Tamiya Battle Unit
ORIGINAL: B.A.D.A.S.S.Force
Hey Steve, I can't answer exactly how Clark controls damage simulation, technical questions in detail would have to be answered by Clark himself.
However, I am presuming it is by reducing power to the intended areas where damage simulation is being used (drive motors, turret motor, elevation motor), & I highly doubt the voltages across the entire board are reduced, otherwise the speaker would lower in volume very noticeably as well, which I didn't notice when testing my KV-1 at all. So I also doubt the IR electronics will be hindered or lessened in any way too when either of the damage states are in effect.
If Tamiya doesn't slow either of those other functions, then Clark board users (in turreted tanks) may find themselves at a slight disadvantage when battling tanks using Tamiya electronics, with them not being able to turn off either function individually in the board's settings. I have emailed Clark to see if an option could be added to turn off turret & barrel damage simulation separately from drive motor damage simulation ... though I'm not sure at this point any more of these tweaks would be possible with current board structure & memory constraints, or if Clark would deem them a necessary change he could make available on future TK22 boards. I know it couldn't be done on TK20 boards, as they are at their programming limits, so if you didn't want turret/barrel damage simulation, the only option would be to talk Clark into removing them from the boards completely, rather than an option which could allow them turned On/Off.
~ Craig ~</p>
ORIGINAL: Shark27
Craig,</p>
I don't own a Clark board as of yet but I am considering getting one for my Elefant & T-34 when the time comes. I am curious as to how Clark goes about simulating the damage. As to your statement below</p>
''Also, the Clark boards do add another aspect of damage, as you found out, the turret should slow just like the movement. I'm not sure Tamiya has that happen, & if they don't, then I guess this is one aspect which will never be identical, because there is no way to turn off damage simulation for just the turret alone.''</p>
As far as I can tell in operating all three of my Tamiya tanks in battle, Tamiya does not model damage to the turret rotation or the gun elevation for that matter, in fact the turret rotation is actually proportional no matter what the damage level.</p>
Why is there no way to turn off the damage simulation to the turret? Are they merely reducing the voltage to the various systems on board to simulate the damage or is it being controlled by software/firmware to simulate the damage? If it is software/firmware there should be a way to isolate that circuit and leave the voltage level unchanged, not that slowing the rotation is a bad thing when the tank is damaged but it would put the tank at a disadvantage in relation to Tamiya Battle System equipped tanks..
If they are lowering the voltage to all on board systems then my question would be, does the voltage to the IR emitter and the Apple get lowered as well? If so then that may need to be sorted out. Reducing the voltages to the emitter would at least cause a reduction in range and maybe inhibit it's operation altogether as damage increases. Reducing the voltage to the Apple would likely result in a lack of sensitivity, so it may not detect a hit unless the opponent is very close.</p>
Do you know how the damage simulation is controlled? Has anyone tested the battle system extensively?</p>
I would be interested in knowing the answers before I purchase any of these for my tanks.</p>
Steve
Craig,</p>
I don't own a Clark board as of yet but I am considering getting one for my Elefant & T-34 when the time comes. I am curious as to how Clark goes about simulating the damage. As to your statement below</p>
''Also, the Clark boards do add another aspect of damage, as you found out, the turret should slow just like the movement. I'm not sure Tamiya has that happen, & if they don't, then I guess this is one aspect which will never be identical, because there is no way to turn off damage simulation for just the turret alone.''</p>
As far as I can tell in operating all three of my Tamiya tanks in battle, Tamiya does not model damage to the turret rotation or the gun elevation for that matter, in fact the turret rotation is actually proportional no matter what the damage level.</p>
Why is there no way to turn off the damage simulation to the turret? Are they merely reducing the voltage to the various systems on board to simulate the damage or is it being controlled by software/firmware to simulate the damage? If it is software/firmware there should be a way to isolate that circuit and leave the voltage level unchanged, not that slowing the rotation is a bad thing when the tank is damaged but it would put the tank at a disadvantage in relation to Tamiya Battle System equipped tanks..
If they are lowering the voltage to all on board systems then my question would be, does the voltage to the IR emitter and the Apple get lowered as well? If so then that may need to be sorted out. Reducing the voltages to the emitter would at least cause a reduction in range and maybe inhibit it's operation altogether as damage increases. Reducing the voltage to the Apple would likely result in a lack of sensitivity, so it may not detect a hit unless the opponent is very close.</p>
Do you know how the damage simulation is controlled? Has anyone tested the battle system extensively?</p>
I would be interested in knowing the answers before I purchase any of these for my tanks.</p>
Steve
However, I am presuming it is by reducing power to the intended areas where damage simulation is being used (drive motors, turret motor, elevation motor), & I highly doubt the voltages across the entire board are reduced, otherwise the speaker would lower in volume very noticeably as well, which I didn't notice when testing my KV-1 at all. So I also doubt the IR electronics will be hindered or lessened in any way too when either of the damage states are in effect.
If Tamiya doesn't slow either of those other functions, then Clark board users (in turreted tanks) may find themselves at a slight disadvantage when battling tanks using Tamiya electronics, with them not being able to turn off either function individually in the board's settings. I have emailed Clark to see if an option could be added to turn off turret & barrel damage simulation separately from drive motor damage simulation ... though I'm not sure at this point any more of these tweaks would be possible with current board structure & memory constraints, or if Clark would deem them a necessary change he could make available on future TK22 boards. I know it couldn't be done on TK20 boards, as they are at their programming limits, so if you didn't want turret/barrel damage simulation, the only option would be to talk Clark into removing them from the boards completely, rather than an option which could allow them turned On/Off.
~ Craig ~</p>
05-06-2013 | 01:45 PM
#11
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From: Sellersville, PA
RE: Clark TK22 and Tamiya Battle Unit
ORIGINAL: YHR
There is no if, so that is why I clarified it.
There is no if, so that is why I clarified it.
~ Craig ~
05-06-2013 | 02:04 PM
#12
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RE: Clark TK22 and Tamiya Battle Unit
I didn't notice any turret simulated damage with my older clark board tk20e when battling, as can be seen n my videos. This might just be inherent in tk22s.
05-06-2013 | 02:43 PM
#13
RE: Clark TK22 and Tamiya Battle Unit
I do notice some turret speed reduction in my TK-22s, and honestly it's not such a huge thing that it reduces my effectiveness is combat. I have a feeling the turret reduction is proportional to your 'overall' damage reduction. Ie. I have my KV-2 set to reduce engine power by 37.5% after 5 out of 9 hits, and that's it. I went with 37.5% instead of 50% because of the field we play on, it's entirely grassy and in the interest of fun, the club agrees that I should be able to move SOMEWHAT in my 14 pound russian monster.
In this same sense, several club members are finally reconsidering Stug's and Jadgpanther/Tigers, as we can set the speed reduction even lower after damage. While still clearly handicapped by speed reduction, it doesn't turn your TD into a useless, zero fun pillbox. Again the club is fine with this, and actually encourage it.
I don't use the 'slightly damaged' setting, just the basic 'heavy damage' at 50% overall hits taken.
In this same sense, several club members are finally reconsidering Stug's and Jadgpanther/Tigers, as we can set the speed reduction even lower after damage. While still clearly handicapped by speed reduction, it doesn't turn your TD into a useless, zero fun pillbox. Again the club is fine with this, and actually encourage it.
I don't use the 'slightly damaged' setting, just the basic 'heavy damage' at 50% overall hits taken.
05-06-2013 | 03:22 PM
#14
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From: Sellersville, PA
RE: Clark TK22 and Tamiya Battle Unit
ORIGINAL: reyemmanuel
I didn't notice any turret simulated damage with my older clark board tk20e when battling, as can be seen n my videos. This might just be inherent in tk22s.
I didn't notice any turret simulated damage with my older clark board tk20e when battling, as can be seen n my videos. This might just be inherent in tk22s.
The truly older Clark boards, like the first batch, TK20-T, & TK20-H boards, as far as I know, did not have the feature for slowing the turret, but I believe all the newer TK20, TK20E, & TK22 boards should actually have the turret slowing damage feature.
Quite a few people might find that the damage simulation defaults don't really slow down their tank enough or much at all, if any, so the turret won't slow at all either. Even if that isn't the case, & the tank movement is slowing enough to notice, it still might be difficult for some people to notice a slow turret if they aren't trying to move the turret for full or at least long swings while the tank is in a damaged state, especially depending on how fast or slow the turret usually moves. Short swings or bumps of turret position might not be enough for someone to gauge if the turret has actually slowed at all, especially if the person hasn't also dialed in the damage simulation to slow down the tank in the correct proportions for each damaged mode too.
I believe I do remember my KV-1 turret slowed after taking damage while testing it when I had a TK20E-RU board in it, but I actually haven't tested my KV-1 with the TK22-KV board in it yet, but I assume it will work when I dial that tank in for both damaged states too.
If your tank movement is getting noticeably slower in each damaged state, the turret swing times should also increase (become slower) with each damaged state too. Best way to really check is do a full circle with the turret (or if you don't have a full 360° turret, do the full 320° swing) & time it when the tank is in an undamaged state. Since motors sometimes swing one way better than the other, go ahead & place the turret back at the original starting point. Then put the tank into the first damaged simulation state & do another full swing in the same rotation direction while timing it. Repeat timing process again for badly damaged state, compare traverse times of all 3 modes. If damage simulation is On, & the drive motor movement is definitely slowing on your tank, it seems it would be an issue if the turret wasn't also slowing on a TK20E or TK22 board.
~ Craig ~
05-06-2013 | 03:37 PM
#15
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From: Sellersville, PA
RE: Clark TK22 and Tamiya Battle Unit
ORIGINAL: Strato50
I do notice some turret speed reduction in my TK-22s, and honestly it's not such a huge thing that it reduces my effectiveness is combat. I have a feeling the turret reduction is proportional to your 'overall' damage reduction. Ie. I have my KV-2 set to reduce engine power by 37.5% after 5 out of 9 hits, and that's it. I went with 37.5% instead of 50% because of the field we play on, it's entirely grassy and in the interest of fun, the club agrees that I should be able to move SOMEWHAT in my 14 pound russian monster.
In this same sense, several club members are finally reconsidering Stug's and Jadgpanther/Tigers, as we can set the speed reduction even lower after damage. While still clearly handicapped by speed reduction, it doesn't turn your TD into a useless, zero fun pillbox. Again the club is fine with this, and actually encourage it.
I don't use the 'slightly damaged' setting, just the basic 'heavy damage' at 50% overall hits taken.
I do notice some turret speed reduction in my TK-22s, and honestly it's not such a huge thing that it reduces my effectiveness is combat. I have a feeling the turret reduction is proportional to your 'overall' damage reduction. Ie. I have my KV-2 set to reduce engine power by 37.5% after 5 out of 9 hits, and that's it. I went with 37.5% instead of 50% because of the field we play on, it's entirely grassy and in the interest of fun, the club agrees that I should be able to move SOMEWHAT in my 14 pound russian monster.
In this same sense, several club members are finally reconsidering Stug's and Jadgpanther/Tigers, as we can set the speed reduction even lower after damage. While still clearly handicapped by speed reduction, it doesn't turn your TD into a useless, zero fun pillbox. Again the club is fine with this, and actually encourage it.
I don't use the 'slightly damaged' setting, just the basic 'heavy damage' at 50% overall hits taken.
I can maybe see that -25% & -37.5% for your tank might slow the tank to an almost identical speed anyway, therefore it wouldn't make sense to use -25% for slight damage if it's almost as slow as the badly damaged -37.5%. However, I would think that -12.5% would definitely place enough of a difference between the 2 states, & if the -12.5% does slow your tank even the slightest, it could be used as the slight damage setting & still maintain a 2 damage state that works. Though I guess if there is no seeming speed difference between having it off & set to -12.5%, it's a moot point I'm trying to discuss anyway.
~ Craig ~
05-06-2013 | 03:45 PM
#16
RE: Clark TK22 and Tamiya Battle Unit
ORIGINAL: B.A.D.A.S.S.Force
If you are using -37.5% for the badly damaged state, then have you tried using -12.5% or -25% for the slightly damaged state, so there would still be 2 damaged states where movement was possible?
I can maybe see that -25% & -37.5% for your tank might slow the tank to an almost identical speed anyway, therefore it wouldn't make sense to use -25% for slight damage if it's almost as slow as the badly damaged -37.5%. However, I would think that -12.5% would definitely place enough of a difference between the 2 states, & if the -12.5% does slow your tank even the slightest, it could be used as the slight damage setting & still maintain a 2 damage state that works. Though I guess if there is no seeming speed difference between having it off & set to -12.5%, it's a moot point I'm trying to discuss anyway. [img][/img]
~ Craig ~
ORIGINAL: Strato50
I do notice some turret speed reduction in my TK-22s, and honestly it's not such a huge thing that it reduces my effectiveness is combat. I have a feeling the turret reduction is proportional to your 'overall' damage reduction. Ie. I have my KV-2 set to reduce engine power by 37.5% after 5 out of 9 hits, and that's it. I went with 37.5% instead of 50% because of the field we play on, it's entirely grassy and in the interest of fun, the club agrees that I should be able to move SOMEWHAT in my 14 pound russian monster.
In this same sense, several club members are finally reconsidering Stug's and Jadgpanther/Tigers, as we can set the speed reduction even lower after damage. While still clearly handicapped by speed reduction, it doesn't turn your TD into a useless, zero fun pillbox. Again the club is fine with this, and actually encourage it.
I don't use the 'slightly damaged' setting, just the basic 'heavy damage' at 50% overall hits taken.
I do notice some turret speed reduction in my TK-22s, and honestly it's not such a huge thing that it reduces my effectiveness is combat. I have a feeling the turret reduction is proportional to your 'overall' damage reduction. Ie. I have my KV-2 set to reduce engine power by 37.5% after 5 out of 9 hits, and that's it. I went with 37.5% instead of 50% because of the field we play on, it's entirely grassy and in the interest of fun, the club agrees that I should be able to move SOMEWHAT in my 14 pound russian monster.
In this same sense, several club members are finally reconsidering Stug's and Jadgpanther/Tigers, as we can set the speed reduction even lower after damage. While still clearly handicapped by speed reduction, it doesn't turn your TD into a useless, zero fun pillbox. Again the club is fine with this, and actually encourage it.
I don't use the 'slightly damaged' setting, just the basic 'heavy damage' at 50% overall hits taken.
I can maybe see that -25% & -37.5% for your tank might slow the tank to an almost identical speed anyway, therefore it wouldn't make sense to use -25% for slight damage if it's almost as slow as the badly damaged -37.5%. However, I would think that -12.5% would definitely place enough of a difference between the 2 states, & if the -12.5% does slow your tank even the slightest, it could be used as the slight damage setting & still maintain a 2 damage state that works. Though I guess if there is no seeming speed difference between having it off & set to -12.5%, it's a moot point I'm trying to discuss anyway. [img][/img]
~ Craig ~
We aim for parity with the hobby overall, but also mostly among each other.
05-06-2013 | 05:49 PM
#17
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RE: Clark TK22 and Tamiya Battle Unit
In my TK20ET1, besides it can do channel cancelling (thus I can do engine revs with Benedini),the turret traverse doesn't seem to slow down with damage.
A couple of videos here below- just skip to through towards the later half of the videos.
indoors and close quarter battle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Qi238PJttI
outdoors, during our club battle day (28April2013)<a href="http://northbrisbanerctankclub.weebly.com/">http://northbrisbanerctankclub.weebly.com/
</a><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRuyGMj22Cc">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRuyGMj22Cc
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">cheers,Rey</span>
</a>
A couple of videos here below- just skip to through towards the later half of the videos.
indoors and close quarter battle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Qi238PJttI
outdoors, during our club battle day (28April2013)<a href="http://northbrisbanerctankclub.weebly.com/">http://northbrisbanerctankclub.weebly.com/
</a><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRuyGMj22Cc">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRuyGMj22Cc
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">cheers,Rey</span>
</a>
05-06-2013 | 06:24 PM
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From: Sellersville, PA
RE: Clark TK22 and Tamiya Battle Unit
ORIGINAL: reyemmanuel
In my TK20ET1, besides it can do channel cancelling (thus I can do engine revs with Benedini),the turret traverse doesn't seem to slow down with damage.
A couple of videos here below- just skip to through towards the later half of the videos.
indoors and close quarter battle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Qi238PJttI
outdoors, during our club battle day (28April2013)<a href="http://northbrisbanerctankclub.weebly.com/">http://northbrisbanerctankclub.weebly.com/
</a><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRuyGMj22Cc">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRuyGMj22Cc
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">cheers,Rey</span>
</a>
In my TK20ET1, besides it can do channel cancelling (thus I can do engine revs with Benedini),the turret traverse doesn't seem to slow down with damage.
A couple of videos here below- just skip to through towards the later half of the videos.
indoors and close quarter battle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Qi238PJttI
outdoors, during our club battle day (28April2013)<a href="http://northbrisbanerctankclub.weebly.com/">http://northbrisbanerctankclub.weebly.com/
</a><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRuyGMj22Cc">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRuyGMj22Cc
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">cheers,Rey</span>
</a>
~ Craig ~
05-06-2013 | 06:38 PM
#19
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From: Sellersville, PA
RE: Clark TK22 and Tamiya Battle Unit
ORIGINAL: B.A.D.A.S.S.Force
Which battle videos are you mentioning, where your tank has a TK20E board & has taken enough hits to be in a damaged state, where your motors are noticeably slower, but your turret seems to be moving at a regular full speed rey? I'd like to take a look at those videos & really watch closely.
The truly older Clark boards, like the first batch, TK20-T, & TK20-H boards, as far as I know, did not have the feature for slowing the turret, but I believe all the newer TK20, TK20E, & TK22 boards should actually have the turret slowing damage feature.
Quite a few people might find that the damage simulation defaults don't really slow down their tank enough or much at all, if any, so the turret won't slow at all either. Even if that isn't the case, & the tank movement is slowing enough to notice, it still might be difficult for some people to notice a slow turret if they aren't trying to move the turret for full or at least long swings while the tank is in a damaged state, especially depending on how fast or slow the turret usually moves. Short swings or bumps of turret position might not be enough for someone to gauge if the turret has actually slowed at all, especially if the person hasn't also dialed in the damage simulation to slow down the tank in the correct proportions for each damaged mode too.
I believe I do remember my KV-1 turret slowed after taking damage while testing it when I had a TK20E-RU board in it, but I actually haven't tested my KV-1 with the TK22-KV board in it yet, but I assume it will work when I dial that tank in for both damaged states too.
If your tank movement is getting noticeably slower in each damaged state, the turret swing times should also increase (become slower) with each damaged state too. Best way to really check is do a full circle with the turret (or if you don't have a full 360° turret, do the full 320° swing) & time it when the tank is in an undamaged state. Since motors sometimes swing one way better than the other, go ahead & place the turret back at the original starting point. Then put the tank into the first damaged simulation state & do another full swing in the same rotation direction while timing it. Repeat timing process again for badly damaged state, compare traverse times of all 3 modes. If damage simulation is On, & the drive motor movement is definitely slowing on your tank, it seems it would be an issue if the turret wasn't also slowing on a TK20E or TK22 board.
~ Craig ~
Which battle videos are you mentioning, where your tank has a TK20E board & has taken enough hits to be in a damaged state, where your motors are noticeably slower, but your turret seems to be moving at a regular full speed rey? I'd like to take a look at those videos & really watch closely.
The truly older Clark boards, like the first batch, TK20-T, & TK20-H boards, as far as I know, did not have the feature for slowing the turret, but I believe all the newer TK20, TK20E, & TK22 boards should actually have the turret slowing damage feature.
Quite a few people might find that the damage simulation defaults don't really slow down their tank enough or much at all, if any, so the turret won't slow at all either. Even if that isn't the case, & the tank movement is slowing enough to notice, it still might be difficult for some people to notice a slow turret if they aren't trying to move the turret for full or at least long swings while the tank is in a damaged state, especially depending on how fast or slow the turret usually moves. Short swings or bumps of turret position might not be enough for someone to gauge if the turret has actually slowed at all, especially if the person hasn't also dialed in the damage simulation to slow down the tank in the correct proportions for each damaged mode too.
I believe I do remember my KV-1 turret slowed after taking damage while testing it when I had a TK20E-RU board in it, but I actually haven't tested my KV-1 with the TK22-KV board in it yet, but I assume it will work when I dial that tank in for both damaged states too.
If your tank movement is getting noticeably slower in each damaged state, the turret swing times should also increase (become slower) with each damaged state too. Best way to really check is do a full circle with the turret (or if you don't have a full 360° turret, do the full 320° swing) & time it when the tank is in an undamaged state. Since motors sometimes swing one way better than the other, go ahead & place the turret back at the original starting point. Then put the tank into the first damaged simulation state & do another full swing in the same rotation direction while timing it. Repeat timing process again for badly damaged state, compare traverse times of all 3 modes. If damage simulation is On, & the drive motor movement is definitely slowing on your tank, it seems it would be an issue if the turret wasn't also slowing on a TK20E or TK22 board.
~ Craig ~
Well, after receiving an initial email from Clark, I was actually just a little more confused about the whole turret damage simulation feature, how it works, & which boards may have it. He mentioned that the feature wasn't exactly an "official" function of either the TK20 or TK22 specifications, & was just recently incorporated. So I was waiting on a reply to a follow-up email I've sent asking some more questions.
I really thought my TK20E-RU board was slowing down my turret after damage, but now I'm questioning my memory, since Clark informed me that the turret damage was "just incorporated weeks ago", but the TK20E board I had & thought my turret slowed, was received many months ago ... soooo
However, Clark did send me an email about this function, & for boards that do have the turrent / barrel elevation damage simulation, there is good news ... it seems the feature can be changed using the Sony remote's Teletext button, which he said is the rectangular box button just below the green power key. Seems the button changes the turret / barrel elevation damage simulation function setting to an On or Off state. I'm assuming the indicator LED will go from 1 to 2 blinks depending on the function being On or Off. I'm going to try my Pantherturm's TK22 board settings, & see what indicator blinks I get when using that button on it, & then I'll test the turret rotation to see how it affects the speed, if at all. As I'm not sure when the boards were updated with this function, so my boards may not have it.
Sorry if my earlier info was slightly incorrect on this feature. Hopefully Clark will email me more info, especially to clarify which boards (depending on the date the board was ordered & shipped) should have this function available. Though I guess anyone could test their own board by simply using the remote to set this option, & see if turret rotation speed is affected at all after taking X amount of hits.
~ Craig ~
05-06-2013 | 06:42 PM
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From: Roswell, GA
RE: Clark TK22 and Tamiya Battle Unit
I changed the heavily damaged state to 37.5% and that did the trick. It is now pretty consistent whith a Tamiya tank. The error I made was copying the Tamiya settings which are supposedly 50% for light and 75% for heavily damaged. These in my view do not directly correspond in Tk22 settings. But clearly that is news to me but not to most of you 
<div></div><div>Anxious to try it out this weekend in Danville!
<div></div><div></div></div>
<div></div><div>Anxious to try it out this weekend in Danville!<div></div><div></div></div>
05-06-2013 | 06:48 PM
#21
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RE: Clark TK22 and Tamiya Battle Unit
...photos n videos if you can mate. =) =)
cheers,
Rey
cheers,
Rey
ORIGINAL: macnjam
I changed the heavily damaged state to 37.5% and that did the trick. It is now pretty consistent whith a Tamiya tank. The error I made was copying the Tamiya settings which are supposedly 25% for light and 75% for heavily damaged. These in my view do not directly correspond in Tk22 settings. But clearly that is news to me but not to most of you<div></div><div>Anxious to try it out this weekend in Danville!
<div></div><div></div></div>
I changed the heavily damaged state to 37.5% and that did the trick. It is now pretty consistent whith a Tamiya tank. The error I made was copying the Tamiya settings which are supposedly 25% for light and 75% for heavily damaged. These in my view do not directly correspond in Tk22 settings. But clearly that is news to me but not to most of you
<div></div><div>Anxious to try it out this weekend in Danville!<div></div><div></div></div>
05-08-2013 | 04:39 PM
#22
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From: Sellersville, PA
RE: Clark TK22 and Tamiya Battle Unit
ORIGINAL: macnjam
I changed the heavily damaged state to 37.5% and that did the trick. It is now pretty consistent whith a Tamiya tank. The error I made was copying the Tamiya settings which are supposedly 50% for light and 75% for heavily damaged. These in my view do not directly correspond in Tk22 settings. But clearly that is news to me but not to most of you<div></div><div>Anxious to try it out this weekend in Danville!</div>
I changed the heavily damaged state to 37.5% and that did the trick. It is now pretty consistent whith a Tamiya tank. The error I made was copying the Tamiya settings which are supposedly 50% for light and 75% for heavily damaged. These in my view do not directly correspond in Tk22 settings. But clearly that is news to me but not to most of you
<div></div><div>Anxious to try it out this weekend in Danville!</div>
The website instructions for programming that function informs to press either the remote's "Display" or "DRC-MF" key. If you do have the RM-964, was it the DRC-MF labeled button you used to program that function, or were you using a different button?
I'm just asking, because I am actually having issues with the button used to program the badly damaged state, which for the RM-964 remote, I assumed should be the "DRC-MF" button, because it has no "Display" button on it.
Even though I have a Harmony 880 programmable remote, which I had been using before to program my board functions, I purchasing one of those RM-964 remotes from Clark so I wouldn't have to use my more expensive Harmony remote, as well as have something to take on the road with me without fear of losing or breaking it. But whenever I use the DRC-MF button on that remote in programming mode, with any of my (6) TK22 upgraded boards, all I get in return is the indicator LEDs blinking 57 times consecutively. So it certainly isn't programming that function for me correctly at all using that specific button. It could however program all the other functions I tested, so it seemed only the one programing button was acting screwy, which is very odd.
I actually had to go back into my Harmony software, & change my harmony remote to add a "Display" button into the configuration I had programmed. There was no DRC-MF button for me to choose to add to my configuration with the base set of Sony TV commands that were available for the Sony remote I was trying to emulate with the Harmony. But I'm actually kind of glad there was no DRC-MF, because after I programmed my Harmony with the Display button which was an available option, I could then use that button to properly program my TK22 board's badly damaged state settings! Still, when I try the RM-964 remote, all I get are 57 LED flashes
I have not read any other complaints like this with someone using one of these RM-964 remotes, where only one function wouldn't program correctly. But I know my boards are all OK, as my Harmony programmed the function just fine, because I tested them after programming.
All I can think of is that somehow the remote I received is somehow faulty.
~ Craig ~
05-08-2013 | 04:53 PM
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From: Roswell, GA
RE: Clark TK22 and Tamiya Battle Unit
Craig, I am using a old Sony remote and the "Display" button. Not the one Clark or Immortal hobbies sells. - Joe<br type="_moz" />
05-08-2013 | 05:40 PM
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From: Sellersville, PA
RE: Clark TK22 and Tamiya Battle Unit
ORIGINAL: macnjam
Craig, I am using a old Sony remote and the "Display" button. Not the one Clark or Immortal hobbies sells. - Joe
Craig, I am using a old Sony remote and the "Display" button. Not the one Clark or Immortal hobbies sells. - Joe
I would like to hear from anyone else then that is using one of the RM-964 remotes, & if they got the DRC-MF button to program the function correctly on their board.
~ Craig ~
