has anyone ever tried an IR laser diode in place of the LED? Should be able to get them in longer ranges with smaller beams than the IR LED that tamiya uses. Seems to me the biggest problem with tamiya compatible battle systems not being at all realistic is the "Shotgun spray" IR beam width. seems to me that making a model easier to hit and harder to shoot would make it more realistic.

I tune all my IR systems down to hitting the width of a tank @ 30 feet. It's easily accomplished by using a smaller tube than club rules, usually fit into a coax MG barrel or gunner sight so it travels in the direction of the main gun.

The emitter has to be the correct frequency to work with the sensors (I believe it's 940) so I'm not sure if grabbing another type will do. The emitters come in all different angle spreads, but they're primarily meant to activate something like a stereo or TV, so having proper aim isn't a priority in design, hence controlling by physically narrowing the beam.

Keep in mind clubs frown upon too strong an emitter, some guys here have experimented with controlling distance with a potentiometer to imitate range.

Here's my installation on a Tamiya Pz IV:

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Yea, most of this stuff has been covered. They are all great idea's, the main problem being implementation. Backyard club stuff isn't too difficult but when you have an event where 20-40 tankers are attending
from across the country it's not going to happen. Either people don't want to change, don't have the know how to change, or even as simple as didn't get the word.

Actually looked into this very option years ago and found it to be not feasible for these reasons:

1. Its expensive technology as the laser diode needs driver and power supply.
2. Issues of laser classified safety would ban usage in most public places.
3. The power required is more than an RC battery could deliver.
4. These devices get very hot and would melt plastics they are mounted in.
5. Laser diodes are fragile and sensitive to shock.

So we could actually make the IR a little more accurate simply by choking down the tube? Mine always seem to be all over the place so I would love to get things a little more straight line. Even if i lose a little in chance hits I would rather hit what I'm actually aiming at instead of something 2 feet to either side.
Range then again is a totally different question. In my case I think it is mostly direct sunlight which is the biggest problem as the NEAD club always battles out side except when at Danville.

It's the same idea as barrel length and accuracy. It's not focusing or changing the beam just eliminating the spread. It can be done by using smaller tubes than the ridiculously wide ones generally in use or by making them longer. I first tested it by placing the emitter in the Tiger I barrel. I simply kept pulling it back until you had to be dead on the frontal width of a tank at 30 feet. Afterwards I recreated the effect with using a smaller tube. I use 30 feet because that's the longest uninterupted indoor space I have and gauging stuff outside has too many variables (mostly uneven grade) to properly tune.

I have zero sunlight issues with my non TBU setups. With a filter eliminating visable light and the sensors directly reading IR, not bounced off a mirror, the are much more effective. I think the terrain, baffles and pyramid of the TBU play into the light polution issue with comes to battling outside.

Keep in mind that both of those changes are a distinct disadvantage in a club battle secnario, but with my kids, I prefer it being harder to aim and easier to hit.

980 nm ir lasers in the 5mw range can be had for <$25, are eye-safe, focus-able, and can be modulated to 38 khz to carry an ir codec like a normal LED. The power required is less than 150ma and they do not heat up at all (are not ON long enough). It should be possible to install multiple ir receivers (getting rid or worthless TBU) on board the hull and turret of an RC tank to pick up a short series of codec pulses (instead of the second long pulse on tamiya) shot in a tight beam of say 2 or 3 inches at 30 feet allowing precision firing with less chance of friendly fire, more life like vehicle silhouettes due to closer proximity of sensors on smaller vehicles, and longer ranges due to tighter more powerful beam.

WHY oh WHY would you pay $25.00 for a laser when the same exact effect can be gotten with a $2.00 LED from Radio Shack and a piece of plastic tube? Then try and talk every tank owner to change to your laser idea..... kind of impossible Oh and I have to drop all the TBU's I have as well to install new ir recievers? I don't want little recievers stuck all over the outside of my tanks thank you.
Dude I am the first one to support new ideas to make this hobby better but I am sorry, This idea will NOT work from a business concept you won't get support, from a player concept you won't get support. In short you are trying to fix what really is not broken.
If you want to eliminate the shotgun spray just make your tube that the IR emitter sits in longer and smaller.

I think Freaky maybe needs a time out here

But he has a point - if people are going to travel long distances then we need a level playing field, and like it or not Tamiya got there first.
I used to have my tanks set up so that you needed to be very accurate, but once I joined a club that was a liability - its no fun if the other guys can hit you but you can't hit them, and to suggest that everyone spends $25 on a laser to make things better is a non starter. Not to mention that any mention of the word "Laser" would send our insurance company heading for the hills. No insurance, no events.

Don't try to make IR tank combat "more realistic".

Its like trying to make chess more realistic by saying that since a horse mounted knight travels at 60mph and a king can run at 15mph, the knight should move four squares for the king's one. While we're at it, why can a king only move diagonally?

I approach Tamiya-style games in much the same way - it is a game to resemble tank combat and not meant to be 100% accurate, since the environments and variables in such battles are not realistic in any way.

To be realistic is to first be confined to only first person view, and not God's Eye view of the field. There would be random fighter bombers, artillery, and anti tank infantrymen taking your tank out with one shot. If you had a Sherman, you'd die with one shot from anything that the Germans have. Given the number of Pershings sent over to ETO, there can not be more than one per game. And if you had a German tank, you would be prone to transmission failure, have limited range due to lack of fuel, and have half your team sidelined at the start of the game due to road march attrition. That's real life, real history.

<$25 means less than $25. Alot of the ones i've looked at are less than $7. Compared to a TBU, a laser (say $10 or $15) with some sensors (say $10 for 10 of them) is cheap. Eyesafe lasers are just that eye safe, besides even with a say 30mw laser their ON time would be too low to damage the eye under direct pointing anyway. I understand trying to get everyone to use something is about impossible and realism can only be achieved to a certain point but, if you don't try to make it more lifelike you might as well just strap up and go play laser tag. The tamiya battle system is a 20+ year old setup, its out of date. Change could be done if its cheap, easy and better. I'm working on it.

I'd be interested to see what you come up with, as they say, the proof is it the pudding.

If there is a need for different sensors, I think there's zero chance of adopting it. As you mentioned, the Tamiya system has been around for a long time, but that's also a hindrance to change. You're not going to get everyone to retrofit there tried and true models. Perhaps changing out the laser for a emitter LED, but sensors will be a different animal.

El Mod has an excellent system that coordinates damage with direction of hit and armor thickness can be simulated, but it only works with other El Mod, so it never got legs since Tamiya is the industry standard.

I'm all for anything that makes the battles more realistic, but the end of the day, guys want to show up, have some fun and go home. The best analogy I can come up with is the old Avalon Hill games. I have a bunch of them and they simulate battles and campaigns to an amazing degree, but they can be so complicated, no one plays them. Meanwhile, Axis and Allies is a extremely simplified version of them and my sons and I play them all the time. You can play a simple version like 1941 in an hour, a DDay landing in two or three or play on a 6 foot global board that takes a month. We love it, but no one I know has time to even read the rules of something like AH's Third Reich. Does Axis and Allies (a glorified Risk game) accurately simulate WWII? No, but it's fun and accessable.

Most guys just want to figure out the best way to have fun with the existing system: charge batteries, socialize and go home.