How to get an Abrams...
 

Feeling very Rip van Winkle here. Many years ago, I had plans for building a 1:16 Abrams when there weren't ANY. I even ran a Yahoo Groups site on modeling this vapor Abrams. I finally bailed on the idea and the site, handed the site over to someone else to manage, now it's gone...

Anyway, now I have the itch again, and lo/behold, there are many choices in 1:16... yay. But where to start? I'm sifting through the forum, seeing lots of info, but I'm not sure what the best choices are.

Looks like:
> Tamiya full option... nice, but I'm not quite ready to part with a grand;
> Heng Long "plastic", very upgradable;
> Heng Long "metal", but maybe the plastic HL + available aftermarket is better?
> Hooben... seems to look pretty good, not sure I get all the options, who they are, what the kit actually is... confused.
> Trumpeter static kit... maybe can be used as a top hat on a HL?

So what am I missing? And what's a good choice here for a full function 1:16 R/C Abrams, but not necessarily for battling?

Pat M

Pat,

Read this, John did , what I think, is a good comparison.
Go to post #44 for the specs.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-t...c-setup-2.html

Enjoy,
Shad

Ah, thanks! Seems the general opinion is higher quality & durability with Tamiya, but HL will get you there too (with more DIY work).
I still want to learn about Hooben...


Edit: Looks like there is nothing to see regarding a Hooben M1A2... at least not since a couple years ago?

None of the 1/16 Abrams kits on the market are perfect IMO. I own both the HL and the Trumpeter Abrams. I'm building the HL as an M1A2. The Trumpeter is being built as an M1A1 since that's the version I have. I want to mate it to a DKLM metal lower hull, but I haven't ordered it yet so I can't comment about the fitment. They are also making an M1A2 version, but the errors (hull defects, hull errors, sprocket errors, basket errors) on the Trumpeter A1 are carried over to the new A2 release. Preliminary dry fitting of the Trumpeter upper seems to fit pretty well on the HL lower, but some re-engineering of some of the parts will be needed to get it to fit right since the rear plates are cut differently from the Trumpeter and the HL.

Hooben: Looks nice, but I don't know of anyone that owns one. It is vaporware as far as I can tell. Detail is nice from what I can see.

HL: Needs a lot of work to be a hobby grade tank no matter which version you buy (new radio, new controller board, and new sound card needed if sound isn't on the controller). Sound set isn't for an Abrams. Details are soft (as in missing or incorrect). Somewhere in between the Tamiya and the Trumpeter as far as build difficulty. Low resale value.

Trumpeter: HUGE mistakes in molding that are not easily fixed. The detail it has that doesn't need to be fixed is good. Don't recommend buying the A1 or the A2 kit unless you are a glutton for punishment. Difficult to build as a hobby grade tank. Low resale value.

Tamiya: Hobby grade out of the box since it's a Tamiya, but I don't own one and have never touched on in person. Has had some teething issues with the electronics. Details are also soft (as in missing or incorrect). Easiest to build as a hobby grade tank. Highest resale value.

The Tamiya are excellent if you want detailing, great engineering and IR battle ready, but for what you are looking for its overkill. Heng Long can be upgraded easily to meet your stated needs and for far less money. HL only become expensive if you choose to use them in battling as new electronics are needed. I run my HL Abrams harder then the majority 99% of Tamiya owners would ever dare. The HL Abrams with metal suspension arms, metal road wheels/sprocket, steel gear boxes, upgraded motors, metal/rubber padded track, running at 9.6 volts will eat the Tamiyia Abrams alive in durability and fun of driving hard (that last statement is going to light a fire). Oh and should with all the listed improvements not cost much over $500. If you do break something the parts are cheaper and easier to come by.

Here are a some photos of a few of my upgraded HL Abrams having fun. You will notice that there are next to no photos posted in this forum of Tamyia Abrams being driven like this.

If you are in California there is going to be a tank trials course being put on by the San Diego Tank Club on Sept 1st. I am not a member, but will be attending and running these two Abrams on the trials course. So lets see some Tamiya Abrams owner come out and show what their Abrams can do.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...20ccbbb880.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...60208bec26.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...facd2565cb.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...40327ec4d3.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...493b18d6d0.jpg
Yes getting air time.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...bc0d4bf75f.jpg
Hard power turns in soft sand.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...48d14c7c22.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...f0ef641dc8.jpg

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...16250ade50.jpg
Jumping a ditch. The landing was hard and nothing was broken

Pat, do you know where Five Mile and Telegraph is? I might be able to make your day.

Wow -you certainly drive your tanks hard !!

How do you find the lower hulls stand up around the suspension mounts ?

Or are you running a different lower hull?

Tamiya also sell a static Abrams but I think a full RC upgrade does not make this option viable ...

As a former Detroiter, I'm not sure thats such a great offer?!? :eek::eek:

(Just messing with ya ;) !)

Looks convincing, fsttanks!

Go ahead, make my day (I drive past there almost every day).

BTW, I'm still mulling over another option... doing something with my (possibly salvageable) 21st Century Abrams...

.https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...cd6ec57c49.jpg

There's a whole 1:9 Abrams in this bin. All the broken parts allow it to compress better.

How about a brand new, in the box HL Abrams for sixty bucks? There's a current issue with elevation but I have enough parts to replace anything it needs. I bought it, tested it (that's how I know there's an elevation issue), made sure it runs properly and everything else works fine and stashed it away. It was one of two, and the other I went all out on. Braced the hull, ball-bearing gearboxes, metal everything, from tracks with rubber pads to metal suspension arms and bearings in all the roadwheels and idlers, custom paint, and on and on and on. For me that project was mainly about trying new stuff, like seeing if I could get the armored glass right (give myself a B+ on that one), and making my own decals for the markings on the front (1/37 Tank Battalion, 1st A.D.) because those are the guys that were across the highway when I was at Katterbach with the 501st CAB (Combat Aviation Battalion). You can see the thread here

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-t...bat-ready.html

and if you scroll to the bottom of the first (and only) post there's a link for video on the Angelus Mortis. ;)

Let me know if you're interested in the Abrams.

My day is made!
See you Monday late afternoon?

I can do that. Any time after 5:00 is good. I'll PM the address.

Thx! See you Monday.

BTW, here's an Abrams color scheme that may or may not grow on you...desert tan under, solid green above, and camo netting to give it the NATO look:
https://www.dvidshub.net/video/51884...rams-tank-crew

Explained here as a temporary thing:
https://www.businessinsider.com/us-t...ouflage-2017-4

Seeing as not many guys here have both tanks, I'll add my two cents.I have both the Heng Long Abrams with the Clark TK board, pretty much fully-upgraded with PDSGB, metal suspension arms, metal roadwheels, tracks, the works, and the Tamiya Abrams, pretty much stock out of the box.

The tank I take out for battling remains the Tamiya Abrams.

We have over a dozen M1 in our club from all brands. That ranges from basic HL to fully upgraded ones with TUSK package and weathering.

I would say the Tamiya is the best built out of box, while the best you can do is to go with HL, but use the full-metal hull from DKLM with all metal options. Get TK60 or WH16 board with external ESC, do 3S if you want serious speed.

It costs a fair bit to upgrade a HL to attain reasonable IR battling standards. Disclaimer - I have picked shops that are known to me and the community, not the absolute cheapest. No bias to pick the most expensive source was intended.

Basic kit (since you're throwing out most everything) - $200 from IMEX

Lower hull upgrades:
DKLM full lower hull - $560,
OR:
RCtank.de track tensioner $50, upgraded gearboxes (PDSGB $165 or IMEX $70), metal tracks $80 (DKLM), metal roadwheels and suspension arms (Aliexpress) $100
So say, between $300-560 on lower hull upgrades
Electronics:
Clark TK22/60 board and miscellaneous items - $120-400

Recoil:
Clark/DKLM - $35-65

Of course, if you aren't battling, you're free to take the à la carte option. But assuming battling is the requirement, the costs quickly start to mount as the minimum money needed to get it rolling would be around $655. And that's not considering shipping costs from multiple suppliers.

To be sure, the Tamiya remains more expensive at $900 before shipping from Danville. For the ~$250 difference in cost, I guess people are expecting big things. For me, the big things are:

• A better, more polished turbine soundtrack (although Clark assures me that later versions of his boards no longer have the horrid stepped engine sounds)
• Y-axis gun stabilizer and turret heading hold (Clark offers this, but you have to buy the (much) more expensive board)
• Fibre optic lighting system
• Designed for extended use, hence maintenance access is taken into consideration (e.g. concealed switches)
• Photo-etched detail grilles

The intention is not to unequivocally state that Tamiya is better than Heng Long - for the extra money it had better be. But recognize that your minimum entry into the Tamiya tank is $900 or nothing. Its perfectly OK if you have the cash, and your requirements for the tank meet or exceed what the Tamiya delivers. But for many guys who don't have the budget, or just do some backyard bashing, or rough terrain running, yeah the Heng Long is good enough. Just upgrade things when (not IF) they break.

I did an experiment once - bought a HL Challenger 2 and did nothing else aside from install a Clark TK22 system to make it IR battle ready. That meant plastic gearboxes, plastic tracks, the whole lot. It was unbelievable how such a large tank could be so light and moved so nimbly! That only lasted one afternoon of IR battling though, because towards the end of the day, one of the tracks had stretched, and both poor plastic gearboxes' clutches were giving way.

Thanks, there's plenty to chew on here.
For me, there's another complication... I have a small machine shop and can do electronics too. Oh, and CAD and I do a lot with industrial grade 3D Printing, including metal parts.While I won't be tooling up a set of metal tracks, I could do my own gearboxes and a number of other things. Likely cost me more than buying, but I'm one of those who likes the building maybe more than the running!
We'll see how deep I get here...

p.s., in case you think 3D Printing is just that junky home printing stuff, take a look at this engine I did... even the brass is 3DP...

Pat,
Pure talent! Very impressive! In ah!
With talents like that, you could really help out the tanking community.
I dont see you having any issues making any brand tank work for what you want it to do.
If something breaks, you can just make a better part yourself!

Enjoy,
Shad

KY Models: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...3#post39908495
KY makes all the RTR ships for the likes of Graupner and Hobbico (now Horizon).
But may be same as Sangjiang Models? https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...dels-1-16-LCM3



https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...9b92e8d264.jpg

Here my attemp to get a decent Abrams from HL model

http://www.modelersite.com/en/112837...-rc-1-16-scale