TROY BUILT MODELS
08-10-2012 | 04:53 AM
#51
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From: Corona, CA
RE: TROY BUILT MODELS
No politician here just a concerned consumer that spends tons of money and wants satisfaction... I'd rather fight for the people than against them!!! That's against a politicians code of ethics.... Lol None of us should loose focus of the fact that the shipping company's are the true problem and the vendors are just middle men caught in a tough position. Vendors can't survive without shipping..... And the shipping company's know this.....
08-10-2012 | 04:54 AM
#52
RE: TROY BUILT MODELS
ORIGINAL: deatonbt
I don't have anything to say about any retailers and just want to talk about the cost of shipping.
I am an independent courier and have a contract with a company that does deliveries for some retailers; some may be ordered online. The company is not UPS or Fedex. On small boxes the company often loses money on the delivery. Other deliveries subsidize the small box deliveries that are out in the boonies. Say an18'' X 18'' X18'' box pays the driver $5 to deliver. If the box is in a busy area or an area that is close to civilization, the driver makes good money along his route. But say that the address is 15 minutes away from a major drag and there are no other deliveries in the area. That is a 30 minute round trip plus his gas at 12 miles to the gallon. A driver cannot make money if he has too many of those boxes on board. So, the driver cherry picks his deliveries, and nobody blames him. The company is going to have to call a courier like me to deliver the box. I am not going to a warehouse and pick up a load of boxes at 2 to $5 a box and deliver them out in the sticks. I am going to charge a bit better rate by charging by the trip. The company that handles the deliveries looses a fair amount of money on those deliveries when considering the slim profit margin after payroll and overhead.
If you live out in the sticks and are receiving small boxes, you are getting a really really good deal.
- Brian
I don't have anything to say about any retailers and just want to talk about the cost of shipping.
I am an independent courier and have a contract with a company that does deliveries for some retailers; some may be ordered online. The company is not UPS or Fedex. On small boxes the company often loses money on the delivery. Other deliveries subsidize the small box deliveries that are out in the boonies. Say an18'' X 18'' X18'' box pays the driver $5 to deliver. If the box is in a busy area or an area that is close to civilization, the driver makes good money along his route. But say that the address is 15 minutes away from a major drag and there are no other deliveries in the area. That is a 30 minute round trip plus his gas at 12 miles to the gallon. A driver cannot make money if he has too many of those boxes on board. So, the driver cherry picks his deliveries, and nobody blames him. The company is going to have to call a courier like me to deliver the box. I am not going to a warehouse and pick up a load of boxes at 2 to $5 a box and deliver them out in the sticks. I am going to charge a bit better rate by charging by the trip. The company that handles the deliveries looses a fair amount of money on those deliveries when considering the slim profit margin after payroll and overhead.
If you live out in the sticks and are receiving small boxes, you are getting a really really good deal.
- Brian
I often will ask a vendor to send the item when they are shipping something else out in the area, or I would even pick it up somewhere else to help them out. It does not always work and is not always feasible. Sometimes if I desire something quickly I realize I have to pay the additional fees.
There is good and bad in this. Delivering a $5 dollar box and spending $10 dollars to get it there is a loss in anyone's book. However in areas where there are main routes that is not so much of an issue.
Also, some companies will let you use them for receiving packages for a small fee or if you just need a package once in a blue moon they will do it for nothing. You can ship to a business much cheaper than someone out in the sticks.
08-10-2012 | 05:42 AM
#53
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From: Sarasota, FL
RE: TROY BUILT MODELS
ORIGINAL: Luchnia
I get the shipping and insurance, however I want the option to decide on the insurance. It bothers me that I can order the same item from someone else and sometimes 50% less on freight and handling. I know some will chime in and state that it is because of location. That is part of it, but not all of it. If I buy some small items that are 10 dollars, I do not want 50 dollars of insurance and handling charges.
We ship every day at the company I work for and we ship all over so I am very familiar with shipping and handling and some of the rates I see at TBM are simply outrageous and I have yet to understand why. We ship items that can weigh 50l - 100 lbs or more. We ship overnight AIR every day and also other avenues. We ship by many carriers too, so I am very aware of freight costs. Need I state that we hate dealing with freight costs at our company?
What I will state is that because of TBM's high rates of handling and shipping I have never ordered an item from your company and yet I have wanted to so many times. You have items that I have really desired to purchase, but due to shipping said no and ordered elsewhere or took some other path because of your shipping/handling cost.
Here is a good example. Not long ago I ordered some small items that I told the vendor to ''snail mail'' to me as I was in no hurry. Some vendors say ''No, we don't do that'' while others oblidge. To the first it is their loss because another company makes the sale. The items' shipping cost pennys on the dollar instead of double to triple cost for a lightweight item as in your company's case.
If your handling cost is the main problem then maybe you should re-evaluate your shipping processes and see what you need to do to get them streamlined and under control instead of passing them along to the customer. We all know fuel is getting higher and freight is too, but we must make sure we are doing our best where our customers are concerned as they keep us in business.
Can we survive with cost on freight and handling? The company I work for has been doing it for over 125 years so it can be done effectively.
I get the shipping and insurance, however I want the option to decide on the insurance. It bothers me that I can order the same item from someone else and sometimes 50% less on freight and handling. I know some will chime in and state that it is because of location. That is part of it, but not all of it. If I buy some small items that are 10 dollars, I do not want 50 dollars of insurance and handling charges.
We ship every day at the company I work for and we ship all over so I am very familiar with shipping and handling and some of the rates I see at TBM are simply outrageous and I have yet to understand why. We ship items that can weigh 50l - 100 lbs or more. We ship overnight AIR every day and also other avenues. We ship by many carriers too, so I am very aware of freight costs. Need I state that we hate dealing with freight costs at our company?
What I will state is that because of TBM's high rates of handling and shipping I have never ordered an item from your company and yet I have wanted to so many times. You have items that I have really desired to purchase, but due to shipping said no and ordered elsewhere or took some other path because of your shipping/handling cost.
Here is a good example. Not long ago I ordered some small items that I told the vendor to ''snail mail'' to me as I was in no hurry. Some vendors say ''No, we don't do that'' while others oblidge. To the first it is their loss because another company makes the sale. The items' shipping cost pennys on the dollar instead of double to triple cost for a lightweight item as in your company's case.
If your handling cost is the main problem then maybe you should re-evaluate your shipping processes and see what you need to do to get them streamlined and under control instead of passing them along to the customer. We all know fuel is getting higher and freight is too, but we must make sure we are doing our best where our customers are concerned as they keep us in business.
Can we survive with cost on freight and handling? The company I work for has been doing it for over 125 years so it can be done effectively.
There are good points being made about the small boxes out to the sticks.
TBM does not do handling charges. With most of our large ESM parts we actually probably lose money but it is all considered when trying to support these planes. Please see the attached pictures of a replacement F6F Tigercat fuselage box. This box in no way took 2 minutes to make but we do not charge our customers to make this box.
08-10-2012 | 06:26 AM
#54
RE: TROY BUILT MODELS
I am guessing that the case is: "...then the company is probably discounting shipping based on their margin with the product." I don't know and can only state from past experiences. I had a 30cc Edge which is a rather large box (around 75 inch wing span) shipped to me on the east coast from the west coast and the freight was around 50-60 dollars.
I know most of the post are dealing with planes and my post was primarily referring to items in general. I do agree that some of these planes and packages can be a handful. We have some packages that we struggle getting boxed and so forth and often as you stated we just eat or absorb the loss as they say.
When dealing with planes I think the large size boxes pose the largest issues. You can ship heavier boxes, but when you get into oversize you have issues. Most of what our company ships is in the normal size loads, when dealing with truck freight it is multiple items per pallet and always full pallets if possible. I know I have heard them say that they operate on pennies on the dollar. In other words their margins are tiny.
One thing I am hopeful for is that fuel prices will change for the better. I know it ain't much hope, but I still have it and am holding out for better days. Everything in the US and much of the world deals with the cost of fuel.
I know most of the post are dealing with planes and my post was primarily referring to items in general. I do agree that some of these planes and packages can be a handful. We have some packages that we struggle getting boxed and so forth and often as you stated we just eat or absorb the loss as they say.
When dealing with planes I think the large size boxes pose the largest issues. You can ship heavier boxes, but when you get into oversize you have issues. Most of what our company ships is in the normal size loads, when dealing with truck freight it is multiple items per pallet and always full pallets if possible. I know I have heard them say that they operate on pennies on the dollar. In other words their margins are tiny.
One thing I am hopeful for is that fuel prices will change for the better. I know it ain't much hope, but I still have it and am holding out for better days. Everything in the US and much of the world deals with the cost of fuel.
08-10-2012 | 09:30 AM
#55
RE: TROY BUILT MODELS
So; I'm curious did you take this approch to start with before coming on here and starting a riot? I've worked in retail a # of years and the customer that comes in screeming and carying on with both barrels blazing before even giving the poor associate a chance to resolve the issue get's no respect. Very few successful companies got that way by ripping people off and providing lousy service. That's the problem with online forums, it's so easy to get on and start blasting someone or some business before even giving them a fair shake, and tarnishing their reputation and effecting their business. Most people will not get past the first page of a thread like this and will come away with the idea that TBMis a bunch of ripoffs and avoid buying from them.Iwonder if you will be so quick to start a new thread titled;"I was wrong and I apologize to TBM".You could drive down to Florida and pick up your stuff; how much wouldthat cost? I learned along time ago if you have a problem with a company then you talk to the owner becase no one cares more about their company than the owner.
ORIGINAL: midastouch_73
<span class="Apple-style-span">Obviously we all love this hobby. Our need to feed our addiction is obvioiusly slowed by the countless amount of money we all spend to stay airbourne. Unfortunantly for most of us our LHS only sell planes and the things that most of us have out grown and have no need for anymore. I've done plenty of business with TBM in the past and I have had no problems whatsoever. Unfortunantly this time things went sour for several reasons which were later explained to me. I spoke with Tone Price early this morning</span>at length<span class="Apple-style-span">about a wide array of things includuing this situation. Tone Price went above and beyond to make this situation right. I have to give credit where credit is due. TBM went out of their way to make things right with my shipping. I appreciate the fact they didnt blow of my concerns as if they didnt care. That's what I call true customer service!!!</span>I feel more than comfortable doing more business with Tone and TBM. I can say without a doubt they do care about thier customers.....
<span class="Apple-style-span">Obviously we all love this hobby. Our need to feed our addiction is obvioiusly slowed by the countless amount of money we all spend to stay airbourne. Unfortunantly for most of us our LHS only sell planes and the things that most of us have out grown and have no need for anymore. I've done plenty of business with TBM in the past and I have had no problems whatsoever. Unfortunantly this time things went sour for several reasons which were later explained to me. I spoke with Tone Price early this morning</span>at length<span class="Apple-style-span">about a wide array of things includuing this situation. Tone Price went above and beyond to make this situation right. I have to give credit where credit is due. TBM went out of their way to make things right with my shipping. I appreciate the fact they didnt blow of my concerns as if they didnt care. That's what I call true customer service!!!</span>I feel more than comfortable doing more business with Tone and TBM. I can say without a doubt they do care about thier customers.....
08-10-2012 | 09:45 AM
#56
Senior Member
RE: TROY BUILT MODELS
ORIGINAL: midastouch_73
Is it just me or does it seem as if TMB charges astronomical rates for shipping. I recently purchased ESM 74 Corsair. The shipping came to around $70 or $80. I purchased a ESM Sea Fury 2 weeks ago and the charge to ship it was $150. When I asked why the shipping rate was so high I was told becuase it's a large plane and the box is large. When the box came it was the same damn size as the corsair. I'm furious at this point. To make matters worse I needed to replace the center section of my ESM Hawker Typhoon. The section cost $70. They want $61 to ship it!!! That's totally ridiculous. They told me USPS was not any cheaper? I'm cakking BS on this one.....
Is it just me or does it seem as if TMB charges astronomical rates for shipping. I recently purchased ESM 74 Corsair. The shipping came to around $70 or $80. I purchased a ESM Sea Fury 2 weeks ago and the charge to ship it was $150. When I asked why the shipping rate was so high I was told becuase it's a large plane and the box is large. When the box came it was the same damn size as the corsair. I'm furious at this point. To make matters worse I needed to replace the center section of my ESM Hawker Typhoon. The section cost $70. They want $61 to ship it!!! That's totally ridiculous. They told me USPS was not any cheaper? I'm cakking BS on this one.....
Maybe this is good for those of us who still love building as much as flying. Maybe mfrs will also offer kits in addition to ARFies. The smaller box size of kits should bring shipping charges down a lot, and the kits should cost 1/3 what the ARFies cost. At the end of the day, how much do you value your time and how much of hobbyist are you?? Are you strictly an assembler of Chinese built stuff or are you a craftsman??
08-10-2012 | 10:03 AM
#57
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From: Corona, CA
RE: TROY BUILT MODELS
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 20px; font-family: Helvetica; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 30px; ">TBM did in fact have the courtesy to email me in regards to the shipping...
On Aug 7, 2012, at 2:53 PM, Patrick Libby <[email protected]> wrote:</span><div></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>Hello,
I'm emailing you to inform you of the cost of shipping on your order. Due to the size of the Typhoon's wing center section, the UPS shipping came out to $61.63. This was due to the dimensional weight and size of the box. USPS is not any cheaper. The shipping quote was shocking to us and we didn't want to ship the order without your knowledge and permission. Please let us know weather to proceed with this order?
Best regards,
-Patrick
Sales and Support
Troy Built Models
http://www.troybuiltmodels.com</div></blockquote></span>
08-10-2012 | 04:38 PM
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From: Castaic,
CA
RE: TROY BUILT MODELS
It's a conspiracy! The big oil companies are over-charging for Diesel. What used to be a crap 'by product" of gasoline refining has turned into a huge cash cow for big oil! How in the heck do they get off charging the same price for diesel and premium high octane unleaded?
So the Chinese bump the unit price to cover their rising cost of labor, then the ship charges more for the container that gets loaded on which of course burns more expensive bunker fuel. Then it gets off loaded and sent from the port (mostly on the west coast) and shipped via truck to Florida. Then a guy in California wants it, so it gets shipped back across in another truck, then it's trasnferred to a smaller truck to be delivered.
So the conspiracy you ask? Simple, make it so darn expensive to get something made in China and shipped in circles that it actually makes sense to make it in the USA!
Genious!!!!!
So the Chinese bump the unit price to cover their rising cost of labor, then the ship charges more for the container that gets loaded on which of course burns more expensive bunker fuel. Then it gets off loaded and sent from the port (mostly on the west coast) and shipped via truck to Florida. Then a guy in California wants it, so it gets shipped back across in another truck, then it's trasnferred to a smaller truck to be delivered.
So the conspiracy you ask? Simple, make it so darn expensive to get something made in China and shipped in circles that it actually makes sense to make it in the USA!
Genious!!!!!
08-10-2012 | 04:50 PM
#60
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From: Lone Rock,
WI
RE: TROY BUILT MODELS
i use spee-dee delivery if i have to ship something locally 1-2 states away. they don't even measure the package like fed ex and ups do, for instance i sent a fairly large box (rc guys decathlon) from southern wisconsin to northern minnesota 34 lbs weight shipped for 10 bucks and guy got it next day after i dropped it off at spee-dee. spee dee only serves midwest area, i use ups for all other stuff, fed-ex is a genuine rip-off. check your area if there are alternative shipping companies in your area other fed ex and ups.
08-11-2012 | 03:38 AM
#61
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From: Akron,
OH
RE: TROY BUILT MODELS
What some of these companies need to do is offer shipping by greyhound like Ohio Model Products does..They will ship rather large products and it is much,much cheaper than UPS aka Ultimate Plane Smashers..Just had a 50cc extra shipped by them and it only cost $35.00..So if you have a greyhound station close by and are willing to pick it up from there this is the best way to go for shipping.. and also for got the mension this plane came in two rather large boxes for that price..I have also been using greyhound for years to ship my own planes that I sell and have never had any problems by them as they are much more gentle than UPS.
08-11-2012 | 04:57 AM
#62
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RE: TROY BUILT MODELS
I look at it this way!
If I can't buy it from my LHS, which I always try to do and have to order it online you do save the TAX...
Now some of you don't pay a high tax like I do in IL, but in IL, enough said...
I had a 50cc pitts shipped to me, cost for shipping was $74.00. The box was big and weighed 32 pounds, the entire box was in another box and had thin wood on all sides, very secure way to ship them IMHO..
My total was $444.00 and TAX would have cost me 38.85, so if you deduct that from the shipping cost, shipping cost me $35.15, not to bad...
Now I am ready to order some things from TB on Monday, my cart is $240.00 and shipping is $15.69. (spinner and smaller stuff) Tax on this order would cost me $21.00, so they are paying me $5.31.. Just another way to look at it and is one of the many ways we justify the cost of this hobby in our head and to our spouse........
Jimbo
If I can't buy it from my LHS, which I always try to do and have to order it online you do save the TAX...
Now some of you don't pay a high tax like I do in IL, but in IL, enough said...
I had a 50cc pitts shipped to me, cost for shipping was $74.00. The box was big and weighed 32 pounds, the entire box was in another box and had thin wood on all sides, very secure way to ship them IMHO..
My total was $444.00 and TAX would have cost me 38.85, so if you deduct that from the shipping cost, shipping cost me $35.15, not to bad...
Now I am ready to order some things from TB on Monday, my cart is $240.00 and shipping is $15.69. (spinner and smaller stuff) Tax on this order would cost me $21.00, so they are paying me $5.31.. Just another way to look at it and is one of the many ways we justify the cost of this hobby in our head and to our spouse........
Jimbo
08-11-2012 | 08:46 AM
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From: Orange,
NJ
RE: TROY BUILT MODELS
ORIGINAL: raptureboy
So; I'm curious did you take this approch to start with before coming on here and starting a riot? I've worked in retail a # of years and the customer that comes in screeming and carying on with both barrels blazing before even giving the poor associate a chance to resolve the issue get's no respect. Very few successful companies got that way by ripping people off and providing lousy service. That's the problem with online forums, it's so easy to get on and start blasting someone or some business before even giving them a fair shake, and tarnishing their reputation and effecting their business. Most people will not get past the first page of a thread like this and will come away with the idea that TBM is a bunch of rip offs and avoid buying from them. I wonder if you will be so quick to start a new thread titled; ''I was wrong and I apologize to TBM''. You could drive down to Florida and pick up your stuff; how much would that cost ? I learned along time ago if you have a problem with a company then you talk to the owner becase no one cares more about their company than the owner.
So; I'm curious did you take this approch to start with before coming on here and starting a riot? I've worked in retail a # of years and the customer that comes in screeming and carying on with both barrels blazing before even giving the poor associate a chance to resolve the issue get's no respect. Very few successful companies got that way by ripping people off and providing lousy service. That's the problem with online forums, it's so easy to get on and start blasting someone or some business before even giving them a fair shake, and tarnishing their reputation and effecting their business. Most people will not get past the first page of a thread like this and will come away with the idea that TBM is a bunch of rip offs and avoid buying from them. I wonder if you will be so quick to start a new thread titled; ''I was wrong and I apologize to TBM''. You could drive down to Florida and pick up your stuff; how much would that cost ? I learned along time ago if you have a problem with a company then you talk to the owner becase no one cares more about their company than the owner.
ORIGINAL: midastouch_73
<span class=''Apple-style-span''>Obviously we all love this hobby. Our need to feed our addiction is obvioiusly slowed by the countless amount of money we all spend to stay airbourne. Unfortunantly for most of us our LHS only sell planes and the things that most of us have out grown and have no need for anymore. I've done plenty of business with TBM in the past and I have had no problems whatsoever. Unfortunantly this time things went sour for several reasons which were later explained to me. I spoke with Tone Price early this morning </span>at length <span class=''Apple-style-span''>about a wide array of things includuing this situation. Tone Price went above and beyond to make this situation right. I have to give credit where credit is due. TBM went out of their way to make things right with my shipping. I appreciate the fact they didnt blow of my concerns as if they didnt care. That's what I call true customer service!!! </span>I feel more than comfortable doing more business with Tone and TBM. I can say without a doubt they do care about thier customers.....
<span class=''Apple-style-span''>Obviously we all love this hobby. Our need to feed our addiction is obvioiusly slowed by the countless amount of money we all spend to stay airbourne. Unfortunantly for most of us our LHS only sell planes and the things that most of us have out grown and have no need for anymore. I've done plenty of business with TBM in the past and I have had no problems whatsoever. Unfortunantly this time things went sour for several reasons which were later explained to me. I spoke with Tone Price early this morning </span>at length <span class=''Apple-style-span''>about a wide array of things includuing this situation. Tone Price went above and beyond to make this situation right. I have to give credit where credit is due. TBM went out of their way to make things right with my shipping. I appreciate the fact they didnt blow of my concerns as if they didnt care. That's what I call true customer service!!! </span>I feel more than comfortable doing more business with Tone and TBM. I can say without a doubt they do care about thier customers.....
Are you serious???? Wall street is full of of companies that do exactly that. So does the oil companies. Two of the primary causes that have us all in this MESS. R U KIDDING ME.?
08-11-2012 | 09:27 AM
#65
Senior Member
RE: TROY BUILT MODELS
ORIGINAL: raptureboy
Very few successful companies got that way by ripping people off and providing lousy service.
Very few successful companies got that way by ripping people off and providing lousy service.
Having ordered from Hong Kong a couple of times before I saw the stupidity in that, I would disagree with you whole heartedly. Almost every flying session someone at the field is wailing about getting stuff that doesn't work, or is pure junk, explaining how they fixed the "arf" that didn't have all the parts etc.
No, there are companies that continue sell junk and provide lousy service.
Unfortunately, some good companies here have gone downhill getting their products from the same source.
