amacqueen

Any chance you could post some additional photos of the baffling you have done? I am in the middle of my build and cooling the ESC and batteries is a huge concern right now.

Thanks!
Andrew

Eddie P

My Feedback: (4)

This may answer some of the question -

Page 2 of 2, showing all the photo attachments int he RCG thread:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/thumb...rter=no&page=2

This post shows a baffle I made to direct airflow from the chin scoop forward and upwards past the ESC into the motor.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1228

Here I posted my interior cowl installation of motor mount, ESC location, BEC loaction, etc. My Castle Creations 160A ESC with it's own internal fan is reaching a maximum of 111F or a tad under 43C as logged. Partly due to the fan and partly due to the cowl chin scoop and baffled air to cool. The chin scoop inlet was fully opened for scale effect and for functionality. Don't forget to manufacture some sort of exhaust air flow. My wing cutout in the center section to allow servo wires to pass into the fuse was enlarged a bit to allow pressurized air that passes from the cowl into the fuse via the battery bay to then enter the wing center section and then it exits through the oil coolers (via sound speaker mesh and also a small exhaust vent in the aft of the coolers). This keeps the batteries cool too - they come down just warm after flying mixed throttle work for 8 minutes with max amps being about 100a / 4000 watts on 12s.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1175

Eddie P

My Feedback: (4)

A sound system helps give electric planes a reasonable audio "ramp presence" compared to the silently turning prop at low RPM. In flight it's really cool too with the scale sound. Video below:


https://vimeo.com/136416024
^^This is just a ground operations video ^^ but I hope to have a flight video available sometime soon. I still have some setup and fine tuning to do for the sound system performance. The devil is in the details for these but they are fun when you finally get the set up sorted out. This is my third RC plane with a sound system now. The photo below shows two prop planes I own with sound systems. Spitfire with Merlin V12 and Ta-152 with Jumo 12 cylinder inline engine.




After trimming the aircraft out and considering it now "daily operational" I feel it's a great Sunday flyer with an excellent scale potential - reliable, fun to fly and easy to transport. Yet it looks the part and the size is perfect. And to think, I felt I might have under shot my goal for this season going with this and not the 60CC Corsair at first. I love Corsairs a bit more than any other prop warbird but for the money and time with the build, maintenance and upkeep as well as how she flies and looks: This particular Spitfire is a winner.

amacqueen

Thanks! That is a huge help.

Quick follow up question. You indicate you vented the aft panel in the oil coolers. Did you open up the front of those as well?

Again thanks so much for sharing. Really love the work you've done to your Spit!

MuttSummers

Where might I order this beauty from? Any of your local hobby stores have one in stock? Both Hanger 9 and Horizon Hobby both say it'll be till March 2016 before they get more and I can't wait that long.

BarracudaHockey

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I would start with Graves RC in Orlando FL and Helen's Hobbies in Statesboro GA

Worth a call anyways and they always seem to have a ton of stock

Eddie P

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Thanks! As far as opening up the front of the oil coolers - No, I just relieved some of the aft portion. The forward portion of the oil coolers is closed to act as part of the speaker box since I have speakers and my electronic "V12 Merlin Engine" sound system speakers partially in the oil coolers. If you look closely at this photo you see, on the back of the oil coolers, a smaller portion that is gone to allow air to move out of the oil coolers from the cowl, fuse, then wing, then out the back of the cooler.



The "inlet" cooling air is coming in from the chin inlet scoop that I opened up and made operational.



Air is baffled up into the cowl and past the motor and ESC. Then past the battery bay. Then through the fuse and into an opening into the wing center section (same place the servo leads pass through but it's larger for cooling air flow). Then through some sound openings for the speakers (sound system in the oil coolers) and out the back of the coolers. It serves the purpose to keep air flowing into the accessory areas and out of the oil cooler areas. Also my custom add on exhaust stacks I bought from Jiri from the Czech Republic (not stock, he has his own BT Spit thread) allow some of the hot motor air to leave via the openings on the sides of the exhaust stacks.

Motor and ESC seem to be operating cool. Batteries are finishing 8 minute flights at 25-30 percent capacity at a modestly cool to the touch temperature. ESC is logging in at a max of 111F or 44C, averaging moderately cooler much of the flight.

amacqueen

That is a huge help! Great work and it sounds like the airflow really keeps the temps in check.

Last question (for now.... ;-). You mentioned in another thread that you were using Testors Model Master paints for your detailing and touch up work. What color did you use for the white sections on the bottom of the wing? Also do you have any experience with the products from warbirdcolors?

Again, thanks so much for all the photos and information!

Eddie P

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Yeah no worries.

1) Warbird Colors: I've painted multiple aircraft with this paint and have been very satisfied with it. The colors are great and the prices are reasonable considering all the product you get compared to Testors. The water based paint works great but it requires a clean up wet sanding with 1000 or 1500 to take some of the blow off dusting off the top. It's not like PPG auto paint but then again it's 1/20 the cost and non toxic while the PPG will kill ya or give you brain damage!

2) I used Testors with success as mentioned in the other thread on the top colors of the H9 Spit to match and to weather (the Light Sea Gray Tesors 2057, the Green Testors 2060 and the RAF sky Testors 2049). But the bottom light gray color on this H9 Spitfire is an outlyer. The typical color quoted in Spitfire research shows a light gray. The H9 coloring on the bottom surface is a light green-gray. You will need to mix the light sea gray 2057 with some (maybe 5 percent) of the dark green 2060 used on the top surface to get it close. The H9 tint is just not accurate for the bottom coloring but looks good as a final finish combo, none the less. The White sections - the invasion stripes - are just flat white.

http://www.cybermodeler.com/aircraft...rofile01.shtml

amacqueen

Again, thanks so much for sharing!

Looking forward to seeing more pictures of that lovely Spitfire.

Best,
amacqueen

amacqueen

You've been so generous about sharing your build notes and I was wondering if you could elaborate on your motor and esc decision. What in particular drew you to the Hacker A60-14L as opposed to say the E-flite 160? They appear to have roughly the same specs yet the Hacker is priced higher. Same question on the ESC in that it appears to a newbie's eyes that the CC 160 was overly generous given the motor you are using (although the built in fan was certainly a nice add). Again, there would have appeared to have been lower capacity models that would have fit the bill.

As always, thanks for sharing.

amacqueen

Eddie P

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No worries at all, I hope this helps: I am using the Hacker A60-14L, APC 20x13 prop, 12s (6sx2series) 5000mah / 50c packs - sea level numbers are 7800 or so RPM, 4000 watts, 98 amps, 96mph prop pitch speed.

I chose the A60-14L because I was shooting for 4000 watts / 200watts per pound as a high mark and maybe a bit less in practice at my 5000 foot elevation. I wanted a fast and powerful Spitfire. The Eflite Power 160 would melt at 4000 watts even though at a lower power level the Spitfire flies great still. I wanted something a little more powerful than scale, for me. I also wanted efficiency, and the Hacker A60 gives about 91 percent efficiency meaning a lot less heat waste so you can actually pull 4000 watts as an absolute max, with a much lighter motor than usual, and still get acceptable flight times. The equivalent Eflite motor for the Hacker A60 would be between the Eflite Power 180 and the 360 but neither has quite as high of efficiency of the Hacker when weight and efficient operation are considered.

When I was looking for a speed controller I was initially considering the Rimfire 50CC motor. That motor will in fact pull 160 amps. When I went with the lighter and more efficient Hacker I still liked the HV160f as it had an integral fan on it to remove heat with little airflow in the nose section. The Spitfire nose is very short and tight and has no inlet air in the kit. Except I opened the chin inlet as a mod. I could have gone with any 120 amp ESC but I wanted ample headroom for heat dissipation and the 160A unit seemed the best choice for that. As it turns out I opened up the chin scoop and baffled the inlet air and I think I could have gotten away with a 120 amp ESC. The 160f is only at 111F max heat on a hot day, so the fan and the chin scoop are working very well. I also opened up two small inlets just aft of the spinner on the underside of the cowl and they are hidden reasonably well but a small jet of cool air is baffled directly onto the motor case for hot days.

The Eflite Power 160 is a great motor on 10s or 12s. It can't take as much power though so you have to be careful with the prop you use. Also, the Hacker A60-16L is a great motor too on 12s and a 20x15 prop. Less amp draw than me, 3500 watts on that prop and quite efficient. The advantages of the Eflite are they are cheaper and easy to mount. The advantages of the Hacker are the efficiency and power but the disadvantages are cost and how you have to mount the motor using the Hacker aluminum mount only. The advantage of that proprietary mount is that the mount has an integral aft bearing on it that supports the motor very well and keeps it running smoother.

The guys that are running the Rimfire are tearing up the sky on major cool prop rip sound but they are pulling monster amps. And the motor is heavy. The Eflite power 180 is being used too as an option.

At 4000 watts I'm putting about 5.5hp to the prop so really I'm in the 50cc range for power. I want to caution those looking to use this system to be sure to open up the scoops, make baffles, and make a couple additional scoops and air exits for motor and ESC cooling as at sea level on hot days the equipment will get hot. I'm flying at 5000 feet so my amp draws are a bit less than sea level numbers.

If you go 12s, you have to be sure to not buy too big of packs. I am using 6s 5000mah packs from Motion RC, 50C packs but they are small and weigh 25 ounces each. Some of the HK packs are quite large for their stated capacity and heavy. I still had to remove some wood from the hatch for the top of the packs to clear but the hatch is still plenty strong and the capacity and voltage is well worth it to me. I have my timer set for 8 minutes and of course I use a lot of partial power. I am only at full chat for vertical performance and the occasional fast pass but I do go through about 7 full throttle phases per flight according to most of my logs I have looked at. So I am not babying the setup.

The guys that go with the Power 160 seem quite happy with their setups. The plane will fly with very little power. The wing seems to be plenty efficient at retaining speed and stalls at an incredibly low airspeed especially when kept light I would imagine. I can't help but to wonder how easy-going the 10s setup on a Power 160 would fly at 17 pounds or so, since my 12s setup even with a big sound system and 20.5 pounds flies like a milk fed kitten when handled properly.

Don't feel the Hacker A60 is the only motor for this plane. I just went with it as I was looking for a lighter weight solution for bigger power.

The only down side of this plane is the narrow stance landing gear. But it's a Spitfire so you have to have it that way or it would not be right. About half the time, there seems to be a time when she will turn right or left no matter what you, as you decelerate through about 10mph. At least on pavement. When I fly off dirt or playa (dry lake), she is easier to manage and I never get drifting. On narrow runways she can make me a bit nervous trying to keep her from the sides of the runway unless I have a "down the runway" wind. A good headwind really helps. Puffy, shifty or gusty winds are not a friend. I added a couple wing tip skids to keep the wing tips from being scuffed. Otherwise, in flight, this thing will make you look and feel like a rock star. And once you get some time on the plane she is easy to takeoff for sure and even easy to land it's just sometimes you are biting your lip every once in a while just before taxi speed while decelerating after landing.

amacqueen

Great information. Thanks again for sharing!

Eddie P

My Feedback: (4)

No worries glad to be of help. There is no over riding correct answer in these power system combos that work well, just preferences. Like they say, out of "Cheap, Great and Easy", pick two of them and stick with it as you can't have all three at once. Something tends to give.

amacqueen

Isn't that the truth. My plan at this stage, since I came across this thread after I had purchased the eflite 160 and a castle 120 (per HH recommendations, surprise!) is to buy the motor and esc you are using and then play with both and see which I prefer. I figure I can use the other rig in my next project. Being so new to this, I was relying on the motor specs from eflite (~ 2700 watts). When I looked at the specs on the hacker it said ~2600 watts so I was really confused comparing that information with your data. As I said, I am slowly coming up the learning curve. It feels sort of like a vertical cliff right now.

Eddie P

My Feedback: (4)

The Power 160 and the Castle 120 ESC are a fine choice. No problems there. You will have to spin a smaller prop if you want 12s, and if you go with 10s you can spin the prop they recommend. Your choices will be fine either way you look at it, but if I were in your place, I probably would not have gone through the trouble of re-purchasing anything. The Power 160 on 10s is the light weight setup and it may actually fly better all around that way, not sure. At the end of the day, the lighter weight will allow performance to be very good on a lighter airframe.

The maximum amp and watt specs advertised by Hacker are notoriously under valued. Most people know with the 90 percent efficieny numbers that the old rule of thumb for 3 grams per watt of motor weight doesn't hold up with Hackers or any other motor good for 90 plus percent efficiency. A lot less heat waste is created. 4000 watts is indeed the upper limit though and only for shorter periods of operation. The built-in fan on the Hackers combined with some inlet or baffled cooling air flow will keep the motor alive just don;t lay on the full throttle work for more than a few brief moments at a time. I gull full bore about 5 to 8 times a flight and the full bore ops are about maybe 5 to 8 seconds at a time. The rest of the time I'm partial throttle. BTW full throttle work keeps the ESC cooler, partial throttle heats them up more. That's what you want a little head room in the ESC, for partial throttle. A 120 amp ESC will be just fine on just about anything in this plane but you'll want to open up the chin scoop and baffle some air across it. The good thing with the Castles is they have data logging and you can check and see how they are behaving and make changes as required.

Again, I don't want to say what to do. But if you are not completely and utterly sold on the Hacker, the CC120 and the Eflite 160 will work great in this plane. Check out the RCG thread and you'll see a lot of satisfied pilots with the Eflite 160.

amacqueen

Great input! Thanks again. Can't wait to finish the build and get her in the air.

AZThud

I have several planes flying on an EFlite 160 on 12S, one is the Hanger 9 spit. I have it coupled to a Castle HV 80 amp speed control, and turning a 16X12 prop, with 65C Thunderpower batteries, this pulls about 55 amps at somewhere in 45 volt range yields 2400 watts or better and that is more than enough. With this I get long flights due to the low amp draw and lots of speed. I have 189 flights on it now and its all worked out great! I am taking this up to WOTR and depending on the temps there I might put on an 18X12, last year was pretty cool so I kept with the 16X12. I get easy 8 minutes of flight with lots of reserve and very few gas powered planes are faster. A 12 pitch prop tuning at over 10000 rpm, does move the plane around with ample speed :-)!

Try and use the smallest diameter prop you can to get the thrust you need, with electrics you can turn bigger props, but the smaller the diameter the less amps you pull. With your setup I would recommend you start with a 17X10, you will get great thrust, once you get used to it, put on a 16X12, and let it rip, the speed is fun, and the low amps means longer flights! The higher pitch does mean lots of rudder is needed, mine really pulls left. I have a DLE 55 on a TF Spit and I barely need the rudder taking off. The H9 is much faster too!

Good Luck,

Cheers

ForcesR

I finally achieved the maiden flight today, including several follow on flights. The Spitfire only required 1 click of nose up elevator with no aileron trim needed. When flaps were deployed there was no pitch up or pitch down at all. The FG-36cc Saito has plenty of power and is a good match for the airframe. I removed another 1.5ozs of lead from the nose, my CG is now 5 & 1/16" (129mm) from the leading edge of the wing. She flys perfectly at this CG, and that's where I will leave it. The total amount of dead weight I now have at the nose is 13.5ozs, the AUW of the Spitfire before fuel is added is now 18lbs 13.5 ozs.

Doing scale take offs is easy with a little right rudder applied as power is increased, it had no tendancy to want to nose over on take off or landing. On landing it rolled straight as long as one keeps on the rudder until the tail settles on the ground. I will fine tune the FG-36 as I get more flights in, it seems to be slightly rich as indicated during the follow on flights today. I am one happy H9 30cc Spitfire owner.

Roger

BarracudaHockey

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Roger that!

(sorry I couldn't help it )

Eddie P

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Such a sweet flyer. She did well with two wins over the weekend at a scale meet. Maneuvers in addition to the typical mandatory stock scale maneuvers were 1/2 reverse cuban 8, slow aileron roll, immelman, barrel roll and presentation pass. Her manners are nice in flight so she is a joy to fly planned routines with. Each flight was a little over 7 minutes to fit the routine in, and I was landing with nearly half the pack left using scale speeds and power settings. Fun day for flying a H9 Spitfire!

BarracudaHockey

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Nice job Eddie!

Eddie P

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Thanks BH!!

Here is a photo of the Spitty and her claims...

amacqueen

A bit of an off the wall question Eddie but what type of adhesive did you use to secure the baffle you built in the cowl? From the pictures you've posted it looks like some form of putty?

Thanks!

Eddie P

My Feedback: (4)

The baffle is balsa. Attached with a light application of epoxy after I confirmed it could fit. Then a fillet of lite spackel was used to better and more smoothly direct air around the transition. I planned to carve a nice foam male plug, glass it then melt the foam for a nice efficient glass baffle. Realized it would be more time to do something that would also work with a much simpler system. Went with the 1 hour solution