georgek54

Good Day to all friends

Trying to find which is the best for the front wheels of a tail-dragger plane, I only found some articles concerning autocars front wheels, which in some cases support exactly the opposite view !

I couldn't find any articles concerning toe-in or out for plane-front wheels.

So, any information on the item will be very much appreciated.

Thank you in advance

George

wattmeter

I beleive you want about a 1 degree toe-in on both wheels
wattmeter

vogel605

I agree, just a hair of toe-in.

pahtreek

My Feedback: (1)

I understand the theory behind wanting toe-in, but to be honest, I think it is more about the "slop" in your gear. If you have fixed gear, set them up for definitely 0 deg (or I guess 1 deg would not hurt) of toe in. With retracts, the sissors at the bottom get loose and sloppy, so when a plane is just sitting and you think you have the gear straight, as the plane starts to roll on the ground with the weight of the plane, the slop in the gear actually let the wheels toe out as it starts to roll. I think this is why some people put toe in. Just try to twist your wheels out, if there is some play and they do turn a few deg, try to make THAT the 0 deg line. But the best thing to do is to eliminate the slop. I usually replace any crappy aluminum rivets in the sissors with socket head bolts and a lock washer or two. Just be careful not to overtorque it, it can break the sissor mechanism. Cut a small piece of a copper tube for a spacer if you have to (slide over the bolt).
I hope it made sense, it is 7am here and I am still a little foggy.

Patrick

paladin

My Feedback: (9)

The reasoning for toe-in is one wheel leaves the runway first 99% of the time. With toe-in the wheel still on the ground will turn in to the flying wing (what we are supposed to do when flying close to a stall). With Toe-out the wheel on the ground will turn into the dead wing (not flying yet). Now most of the time this will not matter but the one time it does will not be planed and best to have all the advantages you can get.

Patrick is absolutely correct! If there is play in your main gear you have to have toe-in once all the play has been taken up to oppose toe-in.

Joe

G-Pete

Toe in is drag...
Toe out is drag...

Drag accumulates to easy nose overs sum arum, less drag longer propeller live

BobH

My Feedback: (2)

The FW190 (full scale) has Tow OUT. The model i have recommends the same. I havent flown it yet but the people who have flown theirs say it works fine.

Walt Thyng

My Feedback: (9)

Vern Kreibel (spelling?) of VK models was the one who came up with the toe-in solution for taming tail draggers, I believe.
Walt

G-Pete

...do you have brakes too?

F4u5

My Feedback: (81)

Save the toe for full scale.....remember camber too.

warks62

My Feedback: (140)

On full scale they have toe out of about 1- 1 1/2 degrees. The idea is that if one wheel gets loaded with the weight on it then it will naturally pull the high wing down keeping from wanting to ground loop. Me or none of my friends with Warbirds ever do toe-in anymore either straight or slight toe out. I can only say what is working for us. Toe-in has always ended up causing us problems at least on our heavy models.

nine o nine

My Feedback: (1)

Most of the problems/questions regarding toe in or out can be ignored if flying off grass.
Toe in, IMHO, should be used if flying from a hard surface because if an unwanted yaw becomes a sideload the more forward wheel will have less rolling resistance (it pivots towards a "0" toe) and tends to help relieve the drag on the more rearward wheel. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Mitch

ROGER RUSSELL

My Feedback: (12)

So Jeff, you are saying sraight ahead.

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

I use toe-in on my WW1 models and have actually found it to be very important. I have always found it to help my takeoffs on all of my planes but certainly flex will always give you problems.

CorsairJock

My Feedback: (90)

I agree: toe OUT is best. My theory: when landing, if a wheel touches before the other, toe out will cause it to pull towards the low wing, thereby bringing the high wing down. Toe in would be opposite: causing whichever side that touches down 1st to 'steer' towards the high wing, which magnifies the problem.

In practice tho, I try to set mine with niether toe in NOR toe out.

Maybe this should have been a poll.

F4u5

My Feedback: (81)

I have always used straight ahead, maybe a bit toe out, albeit unintentional. But I always attempt to remove all toe-in. The comment on grass is a very good one, the wheels slide easily in grass.

Jeff

ROGER RUSSELL

My Feedback: (12)

Thanks Jeff.
I have flown my YA AT6 of of grass with success, but I ground looped at Muncie Labor Day weekend and bent a strut.
Geting it fixed and will try as straight as I can get them, or toe out.
Won't know till next year when I hit the circuit again on asphault.
Anyother tips.

Thanks Roger

Ralph White

What I have found is that having the tail wheel lined up exactly with the rudder is more important (or at less as important) as toe-in or toe-out. My Aeromaster was impossible to take off a hard surface because of ground looping. Once I straigthened the tail wheel up with the rudder and added about 1 degree of toe-in, the plane was a pleasure to take off a hard surface. I believe the toe-in was important also. The best cure for ground loops is to have a nice short mowed grass runway.
Ralph White, Neoga, IL

G-Pete

The funny part on all that is, most wheels have a slop anyway - 2 to 3 degrees is the norm.

Even if you could set 1 degree exactly the toe in/out would be 0.044 inches with a 5 inch wheel.

0.044"

That is about 1/3 less then a 1/16th (for the fraction guys)

Come on Guys

Rudolph Hart

Ace pete

G-Pete

Here is even a drawing...

nine o nine

My Feedback: (1)

Can't argue with the math G-Pete. I've always set my wheels with "some" toe in. If I can just see it it's good to go. Same thing with engine offset. I can see 2 or 3 degrees just fine with my mark one eyeball. Mitch