dvs1

Thomas, I haven't checked, I wouldn't mind the fuse formers cut for me. I have actually started on cutting the wing ribs tonight. Maybe I will check a few places and see what they would run. Do you have any others in mind? PCK is one of the best in my opinion but after checking their website I have a pretty good guess what they would charge and it would be pretty steep.

invertmast

My Feedback: (23)

The owner of lds seems to like unique stuff, so he may be best... or the fliteskin guuy

dvs1

Lds? I have already sent an email to Jose at Fliteskin and I also sent one to Laser Lizzard, I have done business with both and have been pleased. So I will let you know.

One thing that concerns me is I think the plans are a little underbuilt. I have made changes with the parts I have already cut. Especially the wing. Plans call for all ribs to be 2mm whereas I am using very hard but light 1/8 mm balsa which is about 50% thicker than the plans. I was planning to do what Dave talked about and for the inner wing former using ply/G10 laminate, Then for the next 2-3 inner balsa ribs do a thin G10 balsa laminate as to give the wing a really strong but light structure where the wing tubes will run through.
Plus the wing spars are only 5 mm.

invertmast

My Feedback: (23)

Laser design services

dvs1

So after deciding the mods that need to be made to the plans to get the 162 how I want it I have decided against having a short kit cut and will be continuing to cut my own. So I continued tonight cutting out wing ribs and here they are, all right wing ribs minus the inner ply rib that I have yet to cut. All ribs are 50% thicker than plans and are hard balsa. The inner rib is suppose to be 5mm balsa but I will be cutting it from 3-ply instead. I still need to do some final shaping and cut out for the wing tube as soon as I decide what size will be best. You can see from the plans in the background that there are no standoffs. I built these in so it will be easier for me to get a straight wing.

dvs1

Dave, let me know when you get the plans. I wish they would arrive.[]. Im bummed out you haven't got them yet.

Thomas, any idea when you'll start on your end. I need some motivation over here. . Besides that, I need to place an order this week for critical parts, wing tubes, balsa, hinges, servos, g10, ect. I may frame up the wing panel but won't get much further till I get an order done.

invertmast

My Feedback: (23)

Well... i'm out of town for work till the middle of next week, then i've got to finish up the 190, then get the 190 into the trailer, then the F-14 out of the trailer, then atleast get the Fuselage framed on the Arado... so uhm.... mid to late june? I'll probably start cutting out wing and tail parts once i get the plans re-drawn with the mods i want to do.

ticketec

My Feedback: (2)

Hey Dvs,

No sight of them yet... but it's still within the "normal" amount of time it takes for items to arrive.

I too, would like to make some changes based on the pictures of the plans you have posted so I guess once we have all made our prefered changes and incorporate everyone else's I should be good to go

The mustang build for the customer has been held up because our regular supplier of fibreglass has run out of both glass and resin.[:@] hopefull he should have more resin in stock by now and i can plod along there, but i really need the 3/4oz glass.

Thanks

dave

ticketec

My Feedback: (2)

Hey guy's

Still waiting for the plans.... I ordered some bits and pieces for my turbine model from dreamworks a little more than a week after dvs sent me the plans and they arrived today, so i can't imagen that it would be too much more now.

The scale plans book I bought is amazing. I plan to do some overlay's between the plans and the book's 3-views to make sure the shape of the plans is correct.

Thanks

dave

dvs1

I wonder if it has something to do with the tube packaging. I had a drop tank pylon shipped in a tube for another plane a couple of weeks ago and for some reason it took almost 2 weeks to get it, and that was just in the states!

invertmast

My Feedback: (23)

Alright guys.. I'm making progress, just no Physical process.

today i took some time and really Looked at the plans, and made up a wood-list (if you guys want it, i'll post it up here).

For the fuselage, this is what I am thinking.

Separating the bulkheads into upper and lowed halves (split across the as drawn horizontal lines on the bulkheads). Then the fuselage will be built Top side first, all the wings and tail installed and incidences set.
a 3/4"x3/8" "crutch" will be built over a "top view" plan (drawn on the building board). Then 3/4"x1/4" cross-braces will be added to one side of each bulkhead position.
Fuselage planking = 3/32" balsa
Fuselage bulkheads # 1,2,3 and 14 will be 1/8" 5-ply.
Fuselage buklheads #9 and 10 will be 1/4" 5-ply. Reason being, these are where the fuselage wing root ribs (1/8" 5-ply) mount to the fuselage, the main landing gear rails AND the EDF unit will mount.
All other bulkheads will probably be 3/16" balsa. I don't feel their is any need to have all 15 bulkheads ply-wood, as even 1/8" lite-ply is only as strong as 3/16" balsa and weight is nearly the same.
1/4" balsa "keel" will be made to follow the contour of the bottom of the fuselage and the inside edges of the bottom of the engine pod.

Wings:
Wing tube= 7/8" OD x .049" wall thickness x 24" long ($20 from TNT landing gear, length may need to be extended, i've got to look again).
Wing skins will be 3/32" balsa.
Spars will be 1/4"x3/8" hardwood w/ possibly some carbon tape on one side of the spars.
1/16" ply sheer-webbing will be added on both sides of the fore and aft spars. The forward webbing will change to 3/32" balsa 1 rib bay past the wing tube
Add a 1/8" balsa sub-LE will be added to ease wing sheeting.
1/4" balsa Wing TE
3/8" Balsa Flap/Aileron leading edge (this may change depending on what type of hinging is used on these).
The inboard wing panel rib and the outer rib for the wing tube will be cut from 1/8" 5-ply. All other will be 1/8" balsa

Horizontal and Vertical stabs:
Skins = 1/16" balsa
LE = 3/8" balsa w/ a 1/16" sub leading edge
ribs = 1/8" balsa
spars = 1/4"x1/4" hardwood
Sheer webbing = 1/16" balsa (this will only be the inboard and outboard rib bays of the horizontal stab to support a "dihedral brace" for the stab and a "T" shaped piece of ply for the vertical to horizontal stab mounting).

The elevators will be built with the horizontal stab and removed after sheeting. a 1/8"x1/8" balsa spar will be added far enough back from the hinge line to incorporate a 3/8" balsa LE on the elevator ( I need to do more research to make sure this is a scale hinge type, i'm assuming its a "pocketed" leading edge). Rudders will be modified to scale hinging.


What do all of you guys think?

I'm working on completing the wood list (I rarely buy stick, i normally just get sheeting and rip my own sticks on my band-saw) so for those who don't have this capability, you'll have to work on some things. But i can type it in and post it here if you guys are interested.

invertmast

My Feedback: (23)

Whats everyone looking at for gear? I'm thinking of the CJM stuff b/c they are only $430 and it includes all 3 plus the air kit..

invertmast

My Feedback: (23)

Ok,
so going through Carls CJM 162 build, i see what he meant by the main gear being all wrong. So maybe the nose gear from CJM and the mains for the KMP/ESM 109 from sierra would work?

ticketec

My Feedback: (2)

Hey Guy's

My plans finally arrived!!! I've had them for a day or two but have only just started to have a chance to look at the plans.

I have ncluded the first overlay I have made up of the 3-views from the book i bought vs the plans. Some minor and some major discreptancies have come up. The biggest issues have been the size of the turbine hump, it's location, and also it's length. The other ones that concern me are the wing location is also incorrect, as well as the location of the main landing gear. As you can see I didn't quite get the length 100% correct but i'll just onto photoshop and correct that tomorrow. I'll also overlay the wings to make sure that their planform is correct.

I'll also do the frame outlines as well to make sure that they are right.

Thomas, the wood list looks good. The plan call for 0.8mm ply skins for the wings. Seem's to scream flite skin to me, are you planning on glassed balsa? Dvs1 and I are thinking of going with the flite skin. I've never worked with the stuff and so it would be a good opportunity to try it out. but I would have to ship all my requirements at once because the shipping gets a little heafty if not. What is your thinking on flite skin?

I'm thinking the CJM nose oleo and then shindin Me-109 mains and one of his nose retract units? The full sized gear didn't do anything funky like rotate etc on retraction so it would just be a matter of ensuring that the location and geometery is correct and it should work... I'm also thinking, shindin main legs, CJM nose leg, and airpower retract units. I'm just dropping in a set of them into my turbine model and they are quite nice.

Thanks

dave

invertmast

My Feedback: (23)

Well, i wasn't expecting THAT large of a discrepancy on the turbine hump. That is gonna be a lengthy redesign of that area since the wing needs to be moved as well. I may just build the plans "as-is" as i'm not looking to compete with this model, and It looks like it may become a very tight fit for a dynamax fan to fit in the correctly sized hump. If that is the case, i'd rather it be slightly larger and have 100% inlet FSA and great performance, than a scale hump and less performance, b/c i fly off grass and need as much help as i can get. lol

As far as the wing skins, i'm inclined to go with a fiberglass and balsa skin, but I am not set in that decision completely. The only reason for not mentioning it before, is i have read on some others build threads, where they had difficulty getting the stuff to adhere to the structure they were putting it on. Some even said that it peeled cleanly away from the glue joint leaving a nice shiny surface on the glue. Again, I to have no experience using the stuff in a large scale like a wing panel, so i'm not sure if they had a prep. issue or not.

Shindin main struts w/ the CJM nose strut and who-ever else mechanics sounds like a good plan.

dvs1

That is a pretty large discrepency of the turbine housing. I don't think I will be making radical changes to the plans like moving the wing but making the housing a bit more scale would be nice.

Also the gear is off more than I expected. especially the front. Shouldn't be difficult as said they aren't rotating and all just move straight back.

Wood list sounds good. Better to go a little stronger as it looks like you have made those adjustments.

With reference to the fliteskin, I still plan to use it. I haven't used it for wing surfaces before and that is one of the main reasons I want to try it. I have been quite impressed with my other uses of it in the past.

ticketec

My Feedback: (2)

Yep is a fair way out, and so I suspect that the fuse shape, i.e. the formers are going to be out as well. I'll email you guys a larger version of the overlay because RCU shrunk it down a fair bit.

The relocation and reshape of the nacelle is not a major, and it should have very minimal effects on the flight characteristics, but the relocation of the wing on the other hand.......

Thanks

dave

invertmast

My Feedback: (23)

Yeaaaa..looks like the tail is a little high and further forward to. If its that far out, i may just build it as is, since im not planning on competing with it.

dvs1

I think the angle of the horizontal stab is ok, I just lowered my vertical fins as to a more correct rudder configuration and size and should get the tail to a better looking height. While not quite scale it will look better to the eye. One thing I did not notice when I started building the vertical fins is that the actual rudders are deeper than the plans, I'm debating if I should re-frame my vertical fins or not. Probably not as I will not be competing with mine either so as long as its close it will probably be ok with me. Of all the plans I found or heard of this set was the closest I know of and surprisingly it is further out than I thought. It should still be fun though. One concern I do have is that I think the tail is going to take considerable work to shape and get right, it is definately different than anything I have done before.

dvs1

I noticed when framing up one wing tonight that all the ribs templates in the plan are slightly long with rib 21 being way too long. At least a half inch. In the following pic you can see. I do not have rib 20 installed but rib 21 down should flow completely level and you can see that 21 is not. It sticks out at least a half inch. Just another problem to be aware of. Also I'm not quite sure but I think the holes for the wing tubes are at the wrong angle for the wing. At least if I go off of scale drawings. I'll have to dig further into this later.

ticketec

My Feedback: (2)

Hey Dvs1,

I don't think the spar holes are off on the ribs. If you look at drawing #1 i sent you, you will see that the wing has a slight dihedral to it. I think the holes have been offset to build this in. Also, you can see that the wing has effectively been give more dihedral on the full sized because the top of the wing is flat, and the bottom surface tapers up as you travel further outboard. This is why I was saying that the wing will need to be built upside down on the plans, to your top surface is flat, and the bottom comes out correct. the offset holes in the ribs should then give you that little bit extra dihedral that is visable on the drawings.

Of course, the offset hoels is mostly speculation on my behalf as im am sure that it would become clearer once they were all cut out.

Re: fliteskin, invermast, It's interesting that you said that the guys that had adhesion issues with it complained of shiny glue joints were it disbonded and i'm with you that surface prep could have been the cause of this. i would never think of trying to bond composites without firstly keying the surface as a minimum.

I'll try and get the other overlays done soon but its kinda busy hear at the moment. were about to have our roof replaced under insurance and there is a whole heap of other stuff going on as well (ie i'm typing this at work ) so i'll try and get it done soon.

Thanks

dave

glazier808

My Feedback: (1)

Guys,

Don't be afraid of the Fliteskin... It's all about surface prep I can assure you. If I were to try to pull any of it from the wings, I'm sure it would split all the ribs... If scratched up abit in the areas to be glued, you will have no problems at all. The trick is prepping the surface to be skinned as well as the skin itself. You need to make sure all your ribs are at the same level. Any high or low ribs will show after skinning, but with just alittle work, you'll be loving the results too I'm sure!

Please ask if you have any questions on it.

I've opted out of this build, only because Jose and I are discussing the development of a 1/6th scale 90mm AR 234, and with all my other projects well...

Casey

ticketec

My Feedback: (2)

that's what I thought casey, thanks for the info.

I remember watching the Ar234 build with great keeness going a long on RCSB, but then he just stopped. I wondered what had happened to that project...

Thanks

dave

invertmast

My Feedback: (23)

I thought the fliteskin stuff was more expensive than it is. I may try it out afterall.

As far as wing construction, i added 1" tall standoffs to the bottom of the wing ribs. If the ribs were drawn with the centerline marking as zero, the top should still remain flat. But that is dependant on how the wing ribs were drawn originally.

If i could get some accurate 3 iews and cross sections, i could prbably draw up a solid model in solidworks in just a few dayys. But that would be something to look into only if plannin to compete. Otherwise, the model is close enough where i will prbably just remove 1/2" of height from the turbine bulge and shorten it a bit. Otherwise, ill work on getting ratios of control surfaces and what not done. I believe i have enoguh materials to get the tail and wings built, the fuselage ill have to order for. But i have got to get the f14 on the table asap, so the 162 will have to be a winter build for me, along with a TA152.

dvs1

Dave, before I even read your reply I knew you were right. After I posted that last night I checked your 3 views and it does have the correct or at least close to correct dihedral. I was backwards when I was looking at the wing and thinking about it.

I built mine with the 1" stand offs on the bottom and it worked out fine. The only discrepancys are from my cutting skills which I will sand down.

So far everything is going together pretty good though. Between the 3 views and the plans everything should work out fine.