andyy

My Feedback: (4)

I am sorry to see a yearly overall warbird event that we electric flyers are being eliminated from. If you think it is easy to set up an electric plane I think you should give it a try. I think you will find that it is very difficult to get the set up right. The group I fly with have spent the last four years trying to perfect the setup and have still not got it working the way we would like it to. How long did it take the fuel guys to get to the point they are at now. If you think that the electric guys have no problems at the races like the fuel guys then you are not paying attention. You need to look at all of the failures we have at the events even after all of the testing we have done prior to the races. I assure you we have as many problems as the fuel flyers have. If you want to crown the best overall flyer then why not allow anyone that has been flying in one of the classes and following the rules a fair try at it.

rotor5150

If you use the "Sams guidelines" it eliminates electrics from racing with nitros. There is not enough electics to hold their own class. Its a lot easier to win when you stack the deck.......

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

First thing I want to make clear here is that the following opinion is mine and in no way is an attempt to speak for Marty. I'm sure he will reply in a much more PC manner then what I am going to do. Andy, we all know that at this performance level that even the electrics have their own set of issues. Nobody is blind to that. However they are not the same set of issues as the nitro guys face and at the end of the day electrics do have to potential to be more consistent then nitro. There are also a different set of safety concerns, not that electrics are any less safe it's just that the majority are accustomed to the issues we face with nitro. There is no other venue of R/C racing that mixes nitro and electrics. Clearly the advantages of going electric are there otherwise you would still be running glow. For one you don't need to worry about the start clock. Yes the temp change throughout the day plays a part but not as much as it does with glow. Then how would we regulate power/wing area with the electrics. We could establish a max wattage for the 515 sq in wing but how would we be able to monitor/enforce it? At the end of the day there are far more glow guys then electrics and we should be thinking about the sport as a whole and not a handful of guys who have chosen to run electrics. As far as stacking the deck goes, isn't that why you went electric in the first place? Like all good competitors trying to get that advantage?

airraptor

My Feedback: (66)

Shawn I agree 100%.
I don't want to see electric and glow mixed.

rotor5150

I respect your opinion, making a warbird faster with an alternate power plant I do not believe is stacking the deck, making rules that eliminate your competitor is. Is it stacking the deck for someone to run 67% nitro in their YS instead of 30%? There are plenty of nitro planes that break out every race. If you have the knowledge and means such as Marty, Richard V, Tony Lopez, Tony Pacini and the list goes on, you can built a nitro plane that breaks out every heat. We are racing against a clock. Warbird racing is part flying and part timing. Are you going to eliminate gas engines because they have onboard ignition that make them more realiable? In the last 4 years I have been to RCPro races where we would not have raced a specific class do to attendance if the electric guys had not shown up. When you spend the time and money to travel to warbird events to find you are only running with 2 other pilots in the gold class it is discouraging. The RCPro warbird racing was dieing on the vine. If you truly want a level playing field then why don't you all use the same airframe, engine, nitro content, ect. The true issue is this, if we weren't placing, you wouldn't care what we flew...

airraptor

My Feedback: (66)

I dont know you at all. I just started racing warbird this year. both of you have less than ten forum replys so looks like you came here to cry about this. Setting this wasnt about elminating anyone that may be faster lol This is about advancing an already growing warbird racing venue to an AMA level. there are many guys running internal combustion engines and only one club running Epower and i am guessing its you guys. I see electric hurting the glow powered engine sales. its is already going that way now and I dont want to hurt the hobby anymore. I see electric motors doing just that in my opinion. i dont know you but I could say some bad things about you also but that doesnt help the sport either.

How many of you race electric? 5-10 guys? how many in the nation? You could start your own electric warbird class if you like, you don't have to racing this one.

rotor5150

Dear Airraptor,

My intent was not to hurt anyones feelings on the matter of nitro vs electric. I will tell you a little about myself. I am 43 years old and been in the hobby 25 years. 20 of those years I have ran only nitro engines in both planes and helicopters. Every engine from Cox to YS. I am no stranger to nitro. I never thought I would own an electric until 5 years ago. With the help of a few friend I was the first to race an electric in the RCPro series. We destroyed a number of planes and alot of motors and esc's in the process. My point is simply that we are racing a clock with warbirds, not each other. If you break out you lose all your points for the heat. It does not matter what powerplant you are flying. Nitro is just as capable as winning as electric, having the knowledge to set both up and the piloting skills are more important than being electric or nitro. Electrics are much heavier thus do not turn as well. We have very limited battery capacitive so we have to find creative ways to conserve it. The question I have for you is why are you so against electrics flying in this race?

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

As I have said previously. I realize electrics have their issues at this level however and correct me if I am wrong. Once figured out you have a high level of consistency. Add in that your power curve is very predicable, you don't have to tune for each flight, you plug in the battery and it's going to work 99% of the time. Yes at this time the airplanes are heavier, its just a matter of time until you figure out how to make them lighter yet strong enough. The pattern guys went through all this several years ago. Now look at pattern, 99% electric. Why? Because there is an advantage to going electric over glow. If that advantage were not there then you ( Yes you ) would still be running glow. Some glow guys do run very high nitro. I assume this is to compensate in case they make a mistake of get out of shape a time or two. Personally in break out racing I run 30%. Bottom line is that whether or not factual most guys are going to perceive electrics as having an advantage ( Myself included ). Being that we are working on the inaugural event for next year I would hate to see this get kicked off with all this controversy. I think we should get the ball rolling with a well proven format and then add to it if there is enough interest. I see nothing wrong with adding an E class in the future as long as there are enough guys to support the class. The other thing that we MUST consider is that the hosting club may not want the liability of racing electrics. You have to admit they are a higher fire danger then glow. More then an electric 3D airplane? Certainly not but we all have been at this long enough to know we are working with peoples perception as much as we deal with actual facts here.

MFLOOD3800

My Feedback: (51)

Racers.

The rules were set with input from many different established racers from the various series. With everyone I talked to, including one of the electric counter parts, flying nitro and elec in the same race was not probable. Chris, I called your Cell Phone and Hobby Shop to reach out to you, leaving a voice mail on your cell for you to call me back regarding the rules ideas, and you never returned my call. I am in no way trying eliminate any of you from flying in a warbird championship race. Andy, that is an unfair statement for you to throw out there. I have totally supported Eracing both here on the forums and at the races. I welcome all of you to come and race. I have never felt you had an unfair advantage or were stacking the deck, and thats not what Im doing here. Im developing a race that will have the high probability of a rotation at various fields and some of them legally can not fly lipos in aircraft. It was not a disrespectful sabotage of you guys and your efforts. Remember I have been right there with you from the begininng watching you guys struggle and succeed and loved racing with you. Nitro is no stranger to you guys as you were "scientists" even in that arena in the early days. I know if you want, to you can build a plane, put a YS on it and come and run with the best pilots. Using rules from 3 different groups and creating only 3 classes so we can complete the race in the alloted time with the amount of entries was paramount. I would one day love to see an electric scenario played out, I just dont have the base to do this at this time. I heard you were planning on getting a YS and coming to Sacramento to race next year any way? I still consider you guys friends and hope you do the same. Out of respect for me and this effort to grow racing, some of your concerns or ideas may have better been served in a private message to me or a returned phone call. Those of you who believe the Eracers are whining, they arent. Dont turn this thread or idea into a kids game of accusations. Everyone here loves racing and whats what is fair and practical. Sometimes the two collide rather than mesh.

andyy

My Feedback: (4)

All I want to say is its too bad you guys cant see the future and embrace it instead of trying to keep it from happening. As you said yourself the pattern guys have gone to it so why do you keep trying to prevent it instead of figuring out how it works and using it. You might as well you cant prevent it from happening if that is truly what the future holds. All I see in the hobby is more and more electrics flying there must be a reason, are you afraid of what the future holds. The electric guys I fly with have always helped anyone that has asked us and we do not keep any secrets. If anyone is interested in flying electric just let me know and I would be more than willing to give you all of the information on what we are using so you can give it a try. I believe you will find out there is no advantage and a lot of disadvantages to using electric, its not as easy as you all seem to think. You better look at the history of most new things that happen. At first people are afraid of new technology then after a few brave people try it and find out it is the best way to go then everyone quits being afraid and it becomes the mainstay. I am sure you have made numerous changes over the years to your planes just trying to make it better and faster. This is just another change that is most likely going to happen so why fight it. My opinion is embrace the future and don't be afraid of it.

I really like the idea of an event like this that brings all of the racing together. I only see a couple of young people at the events which is not good for the hobby. I feel if there is going to be any future for this type of racing we need to make more people want to come out and fly and not try to eliminate people. I hope the event happens and wish you guys the best of luck with it. I don't want to get in an argument over one event it is up to the people that run the event what they want to allow at the event. If the future goes the way I think it will you will have to be more flexible or there wont be an event.

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

Andy, I will agree that electrics are overall becoming more popular. Is it the way of the future? Maybe. Should that future be now? Not in my opinion. I have tried electric pattern and did not care for it. I just could not wrap my head around 8 min flights. I took a good look at the EF1 and decided it was not for me. Too slow IMO and lacks the " Feel " of what I think racing should be. Everyone in this sport should do what they like. Your choice is E racing. Obviously when you chose to go that route you knew you would be in the minority. That was your choice. What would happen if I showed up at an EF1 race with a WM Outrageous powered with a ST X25? Obviously I would not be allowed to race. How is this any different? Marty is doing the smart thing and sticking with a format that has stood the test of time. It's difficult to argue with success. As far as the younger demographic is concerned, electric or glow is not going to make an impact either way. There are just too many other things occupying our youth's attention these days. R/C is just not on the " Cool " list. Take it from a father of 4 teenagers, Warbird racing is just not on their list.

airraptor

My Feedback: (66)

ANDY,


The real plane burned a fuel and so should our Warbirds.....

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

Guys, I think this topic is one with some value but perhaps not here. I feel this thread is to post news concerning the event as progress to it's organization happens. If we want to discuss this any farther maybe we should start a new thread to do so and leave this one for it's original intent.

Iron Dog

I could't agree more!

PLANEBENDER

My Feedback: (3)

I don't really have a dog is this fight but I will say this: I myself would build an Electric Gold racer if we ever had a class for it at the SAMs events. I too was a pioneer in the electric Giant scale 3-D airplanes and have burned up a lot of equipment getting the right combo. It's not easy turning a 39" prop and flying a 38LB Aerobat. I just want to race PERIOD!!! What ever Marty carves in stone is what I will follow. Perhaps someone else needs to put on a BIG TIME warbird event and design their own rules and invite people to come over and taste the tea. I travel all over the US and also out of the country flying all year long. I for one would support this type of event. Just my 2cents.

Dave

Jimmy Skids

My Feedback: (2)

All this electric talk is very interesting and encouraging for that type of racing having a future. Speaking for the SAM (Sacramento Area Modeler's) here, there will not be Electric racing at SAM. The SAM field was badly burned due to grass fires and the repair efforts and costs were quite extreme. The SAM airfield is surrounded by open fields of grass and due to the nature of LIPOS and their ability to burst into flames as part of a mid-air the decision was made to limit the exposure of a fire occurring again no matter how small.

If there comes a time where the technology catches up and the power source is stable enough to not become a "flaming arrow" in the event of a mid-air I would be more than happy to add this type of power system to the SAM rules and would probably be right back here asking you all for help on how to do it correctly to evenly line up E power with G power.

I for one really appreciate the passion behind the E power movement. It would make sense that at some point there become a class for electric. I would think if they ever race together that the order of take off would then need to be determined somehow so that there wouldn't be complaints from either camp..... but that is a whole other can of worms.....

Anyhow, let's put this thread back on topic and let me first start by saying thank you to Marty for having the patience and making this effort go forward. I sincerely look forward to the day that many of us and others gather together and turn left in competition. This has been a long time coming and Marty you are the man for stepping up and making it happen.

Jimmy Skids

andyy

My Feedback: (4)

As I said before I hope the event happens and hope everything works out. I understand about the field burning from LIPOs and your reluctance to allow them to fly at your field. I would feel the same way if it happened to our field.

If you want some real competition come on over and fly with us we will be more than willing and would enjoy battling it out with you guys. I just don't think you can call the winner of the event the overall warbird champion when you don't allow some of the competition to fly in it.

Good luck Marty and I hope you can pull off the event, anything to help the sport has my support.

rotor5150

Marty, I very much respect you and this event your trying to put together. Hopefully at some point in the future we can see the nitro/electrics racers come together. Wish all of you the best...

airraptor

My Feedback: (66)

ANDY you can come and race just not in an electric plane, your choice to race or not, so your not eliminated. This event as I know it just isn't for the west coast anyone is welcome from east coast or any part of the world.

Corbit I really dont see warbird racing combining on a national level. From cars to boats to planes I dont see them together.

Both of you I am not a hater and may even work on an Eplane to come race in your area. What are the rules?

rotor5150

Dear Airraptor,

The rules are at www.rcprowarbirdracing.com. We have been flying along side the nitros for 4 years now and have had very little conflict issues. If you ever decide to join us we would welcome you with open arms, no matter what plane your flying. If you ever decide to try electric we would be glad to give you any info about our setups to try to save you some of the pain we have been through. Races in Arizona are in Tuscon, Phoenix and Chino Valley, California is Victorville and Utah is Cedar City and sometimes Saint George. Marty speaks highly of you so I know you must be a good guy, just passionate like the rest of us pylon guys. Wish you the best......

MFLOOD3800

My Feedback: (51)

Ok guys I looked into some trophies (9 total) and can not find anyone who puts an airplane on top other than a piper cub. (RCPRO guys like that).


I was also quoted $720.

Im not after plaques, i want trophies, like we used to get racing dirt bikes, snow mobiles, stock cars etc.
Anyone know of any vendor who makes these and for less than 1/2 the total race entry fee budget

airraptor

My Feedback: (66)

Marty i will look around here. we do millions of trophys and plaques. I will look thru their 6 inch thick catalog and see what i can come up with. some places here can even mount what every you want on top.

tdstaf

My Feedback: (11)

So will there be emphasis put on fidelity to scale outline and color?

MFLOOD3800

My Feedback: (51)

No and Yes Joe, any colors acceptable, scale outline , especially on home built planes should be easily identifiable, arfs like Phx Strega (the old one) we are allowing. Even planes that dont have retracts, like some mustang ARFS, is still OK.
The emphasis isnt on scale fidelity, it is on combining the various series and getting everyone together to race what they are allowed in their series and crown the warbird champion of their class.

MFLOOD3800

My Feedback: (51)

Thx Jeff,
I had 2 emails from vendors telling me they couldnt locate a plane to use. I have one more vendor emailing me they are still checking.