spyder0069

I have a World models Cub 26 that I am putting on floats. Initially I bought a set of Geebee floats but have read the bad reviews on them plus they weigh in at 1 pound just for the floats and aluminum spreader/gear. So I am planning on making some foam floats for it but have a question. I am guessing the float width itself should be around 3" for a 25 size plane. Does that sound close? Also the geebee float directions said the stance should be 15" but that seemed way to wide for my small plane. I went 13 1/2" which seemed a little better. Its too bad I can't use the original landing gear but it is only about 9-10 inches wide. Is there a formula for the width of the stance? I originally had a OS LA 40 on this small plane but after flying it with wheels it was way over powered. So I put my trusty .25FP on it and built a nice in cowl muffler. With a few flights on it after the conversion it seems to be a good match. Hopefully it still is once the floats are installed. It likes a 10x3 APC prop and I think it will be enough thrust to get it up on step and in the air. It weighs a little under 3.5 lbs with wheels. I save some weight by using HS-81's instead of full size servos. Let me know what you guys think!



Pic of the cub with the ugly geebee's attached.

evan-RCU

Gee Bee floats are some of the best floats out there. Yes they don't look the best, but they are very user freindly, rugged and come with good instructions and the aluminum straps to install them. That said, the smallest size GB's are too large for your airplane, There are a number of people importing Taiwaneese(however you spell it) fiberglass floats in various sizes, they are very light and work real good though they don't hold up well, you should try to find a set of these. As far as stance, it depends on the float but 13.5-14 sounds about right. I have made foam floats, covered in .5oz glass cloth, that work well too. If yo do a search for my posts you'll see an old timer called a Quaker on fiberglassed built up wood floats and a delta that has the fiberglasses foam floats and a Dazzler on GB's.

Good luck!!

spyder0069

Actually these are the 28" geebees which should be the right length. From prop to tail is 36" on this plane. 75% -80% of that is 27" - 28. So I should be in the ballpark. I hope to get some foam tonight and start on a set.

spyder0069

Heres another pic so you can see how far back they go. They look pretty standard to me. Could be wrong though.

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

They look fine... Fly it!

seaplane

Although I'm not a fan of the Gee Bee floats your setup looks fine. The rule of thumb for stance is 1/4 wing span with a couple inches clearance between the top of the float and the bottom of the prop arc. Anyway, these are all starting points. If it works don't mess with it!. By the way, I make 27" foam core-balsa sheeted floats that end up at 5 oz each..............Seaplane

JimCasey

My Feedback: (1)

Here's a newsletter article written by Bruce Nelson-AMA VP.


NOTES ON FLOATS, Or what I wished I knew when I first tried this.

To begin with this is only an attempt to save the low time float pilot some of the headaches other of us have suffered. I have been float flying for over 15 years and have learned many lessons the hard way. Now when I go to float flies I ask a lot of questions and always have my notebook handy. Most of the information below came from experienced flyers. Opinions vary on equipment and methods. There is no way to cover all bases but I hope this will save you some trips to the lake only to be a spectator and not a participant.

Choice of airplane is important, look for a plane with long nose and tail moments and a light wing loading. Most high wing trainers fill the bill here. The scale like aircraft such as the Golderberg Cub is often flown by low time pilots, but may not be the best choice. In the hands of an experienced pilot it is a thing of beauty, but it has a fairly high wing loading before you add floats. Compared to other Cub kits it appears to have a shorter than scale tail moment which can create problems.

Larger .60 size planes handle the waves much better than their smaller counterparts. Once you have chosen an aircraft the next thing is a proper set up. Setting up your plane is not as difficult as you may think as long as you follow these rules.

1. Wing incidence should be 1 to 2 degree positive to the center line of the float. If the top of the float is flat you can usually measure from that.

2. Float length should be 75-80% the length of the aircraft including the spinner.

3. Floats should be spaced apart approx. 20-25% of the wingspan, although some people suggest 50% of the float length..

4. The float tip should extend 2-3" beyond the prop.

5. The prop should clear an imaginary line across the top of the floats by 2-3".
Sometimes a three bladed prop can solve this problem.

6. Once the plane is set up on the floats, press the heel of the float down against a flat surface and measure the top of the float. If you can’t obtain 7-8 degrees of positive angle the aircraft may not rotate properly and be difficult to get off the water.

7. Step of the float in most cases is set up on the CG or 1-1 1/5" behind the CG. It should be noted that on full scale aircraft the step is set at the middle of the wing cord. This is also true of the “Super Float” discussed below.

Sub fins: I have never used them, and have seen them cause problems in high wind conditions. Instead I prefer to increase the area of the vertical stab on some airplanes.


Water rudders: One is adequate in most cases, but two are better on large aircraft or when you have windy conditions. To improve taxiing, do so with full up elevator. This forces the heel of the float down and increases the effect of the rudder(s). Water rudders should be retractable or built to kick up as speed increases. This decreases water looping. While on this, use the rudder stick very sparingly at high speeds. On full size aircraft when one water rudder is used it always seems to be mounted on the right float.

Spreader bars and gear: The stiffer the better, if you can see your floats ”walking” on take off through moderate waves you gear needs stiffening. Stiffer gear will give you more positive control. 60 size aircraft and larger commonly use 1/4"x 3/4" plywood spreaderbars. Spruce will crack and split. Flat aluminum bars covered with airfoil shaped aluminum tubing make great scale appearing gear. The flat aluminum bar gear works great, and I like it better than bent wire. Be sure and cross brace your gear on larger airplanes.

Waterproofing: No such thing. The “Strong Box” is nice for your rx and battery pack. A tight well sealed fuselage will help of course and foam wing tape protects that area. I like internal switches and it is a good idea to put a piece of tape over external charging jacks. Adding a spray rail to your floats will cut down the amount of water that gets on your plane. An airplane that produces a lot of spray may not be set up properly or may have floats that are not large enough. Minimize the size of pushrod exits. Always check for onboard water in both the fuse and floats during pre-flight.

Floats: First lets explore hollow balsa and plywood floats. They are a great place to store water, and sooner or later they will. When that water runs to the back of your float on takeoff, and that’s where it will go you are now tail heavy, nuff said. If you are lucky enough to get the nose over you will be nose heavy, for a while.

Both Sig and Goldberg have very good balsa and plywood floats.

Hollow molded plastic floats also store water well. The are prone to cracking at the seems and will expand after setting on a warm beach. This will cause them to blow out along the seems. If you use these at least vent them with a small hole on the top. You can also use the hole to pour out the water.

Milk bottle blow molded floats. Do yourself a favor, walk out to the end of the dock and throw your plane into the water repeatedly. This will have the same effect as trying to fly with them but you won’t irritate the chase boat driver. Seriously I have seen them work, but not near as often as the number of times they have not. Their rounded edges and step design prevent them from cleanly breaking free of the water. They also are effected by UV rays and will crumble like parchment if stored where the sun can get at them.

Foam floats covered with balsa and or glass cloth. First of all the only thing stronger is a Louisville Slugger. In many years of using only this type I have only broken one and that has when I dove it into a dock. They can’t leak and they will float your plane no matter what condition it is in.

B.J. Floats are white foam with balsa covering they come in 36" and 48" sizes and I have a pair on my large Telemaster that have been glassed and I am very pleased with them.

Super Floats. Many years ago I met Len Vallie who introduced me to a float design he had been working on for several years. It was love at first flight. Lens floats come in four pieces two front halves and two rear. You join them together and cover them with epoxy and class cloth. The result is the closest thing to a perfect float you can find. All you have to do is go to the float flies in Canada and you will see a large number of aircraft on this type of float. Lens floats come with a great set of instructions and information about setting them up on your favorite plane. He even has a list of what float is right for your plane.

Dave Milton of Slocan Floats sells what is basically the same float, the only difference is that Dave sells his floats “assembled” as a core only, not glassed. Primed and glassed, or painted. I have several of Dave’s floats and for me buying them partially finished is worth the price because it saves me some building time. Dave also tells me he is working on a scale float and hopes to get them out soon. In addition to direct sales Dave also distributes his floats thought Palmers Hobby Shop as well as other shops in B.C. I have been very pleased with both the Super Floats and The Slocan Floats and have received my float orders very quickly from both sources.

As I said at the start of this offering it is not intended to answers all questions or cover all there is to setting up a float plane, it is just a starting place. I hope this information will help you spend more time flying and less time watching, unless you are on my frequency, in that case please burn this information. If you have questions my e-mail is [email protected].

Bruce Nelson

Dave Milton
Slocan Floats
Box 377
New Denver B.C.
V0G-1S0

spyder0069

Nothings better than the opinion of someone with experience. Got my foam tonight. Have gathered some great info from other sites on easy ways to make foam floats. So off come the geebees and to the drawing board I go with my scroll saw warmed up. I'll reuse the aluminum the geebees came with. I suppose I can keep the geebees for a plan B or maybe for a 2nd plane once I am successful. I have a aquastar 1/2a boatplane so I have some experience off the water. My previous attempt at foam floats was for a 1/2a plane and I tried to fly from a small pond. A overhanging willow snatched my plane at 15 ft high after takeoff. My expression went from huge smile (break from water), to confusion (where did that tree come from), to panic (WHERE DID THAT TREE COME FROM). I pulled back hard trying to climb and ended up in a gentle hover directly into the tree. Plane flipped over backwards and fell out of the tree with the .074 still running and I actually did make the attempt to gain enough speed to fly out of it. However, not enough elevator throw and I was rebuilding a firewall that night when it fell to the ground and missed the water. So now I live next to a huge lake and want to take more than my boatplane out. Plus I am one of those sick people who have addictions to cubs. Thanks for everyones advice.

JimCasey

My Feedback: (1)

OK, if you're gonna make your OWN floats, here is the best link I ever found for that.

http://www.flyinglindy.homestead.com/skisandfloats.html

you can get the 1" insulation foam at Home Deepo and laminate 3 or 4 layers together to make floats. Cheap. Get "Gorilla Glue" while you are there. Not Cheap, But really, really good.

spyder0069

Tried out the geebee's yesterday. We had 10-12 mph winds which created a little chop. I was surprised to see that the floats on my little 25 size cub almost seemed to not have enough boyance. The chop would roll over the top of the floats at idle. Probably any floats would have had the same problem. It wasn't bad though so I did a little taxing. Even with the water rudder it weathervaned pretty good and was almost impossilbe to turn downwind. I left my water rudder without the rubberbands to hold it in position so that it could freely rotate/flap out of the way during takeoff. I think I would get more positive control if I put them on. Anyway to make a long story short the geebees worked GREAT!!! All that worrying was for nothing. A little elevator on takeoff keeps the nose of the floats out of the chop and they come up on step quickly. The plane flew great in the air. I noticed a huge difference once I flipped inverted. I usually have to give the plane some down elevator to fly level while inverted and with the floats this was way too much and it pulled to the sky. You can tell those floats are adding lift. I had 3 great takeoffs and 2 1/2 great landings. First two landings were silk, third was silk all the way down to skimming accross the water. I though I had bled off enough speed and pulled back on the elevator to keep the tips out of the chop and apparently I had just enough speed to loft it into the air about a foot. I throttled up to about 1/4 to try a smooth out the enevitable bouce and I plopped in about 2 feet from shore and the nose briefly went in enough to kill the engine. Pull the plug a ran the starter on it to blow out any water. Replace plug and ran it for 2 minutes. All was good. I had a blast. And I can even forgive the geebee's for the non-scale look now. In fact they've kinda grown on me. Another good flying cub on floats for all those cub-haters to deal with. [:-]

JimCasey

My Feedback: (1)

>>Even with the water rudder it weathervaned pretty good and was almost impossilbe to turn downwind. <<

Hold full up, and add some power so the floats are trying to climb over their bow wave. It'll weathervane DOWNWIND in that attitude.