Retrieval?
 

Just flew my first float plane. A .40 size trainer with a .61fx on geebee floats.

The first dead stick, plane is floating toward opposite shore aided by the wind. I see the plane rotate forward and the motor goes under. After I went swimming, found out the floats had a leak!

Has anyone seen an electric motor/prop used as a backup/retrieval device. I was thinking a small 280 with a speed control plugged into the gear channel, flip the gear switch and motor back to shore.

I figure the weight would be around 3-4 ozs.

Any comments or suggestions?

rc boat
 

I've used an rc boat in the past to retrieve aircraft. It was a logging dozer boat with a functional boom on the front controlled by a 3rd channel. It worked quite well except if the plane was over 200' out ( my depth perseption was off ) it was hard to manouver the boat around.

Retrieval?
 

A guy at out annual float fly had a small pod on top of the wing with a folding pusher prop and elect motor.

He rubberbanded the folding prop closed. He said it would throw the ruberband off if he powered up the motor.

Retrieval?
 

if your plane is upside down, the electric motor is not going to be much help......

Retrieval?
 

You have a point on the upside down part. The floats filled becasue it could not be retrieved in a timely manner(thats were the backup system comes in).

The leak has been plugged!

I was considering a model boat drive system to "bring it back".

retreval of plane
 

Nothing works better than a really good dog. My personal favorite is a good Lab. It is important to remember to keep him tied up untill needed or he will try to retrieve one you have landed and catching a rotating prop will ruin him forever. If you rub a little liver on the plane before every flight this will also encourage the dog to go get the plane. I hope this helps. You will however need a lot of planes.

Retrieval?
 

No, the Dog idea won't work for us here in Florida. It's too expensive. Gators are ubiquitous around here, and dogs are their favorite delicacy. It's cheaper to have a boat.

Retrieval?
 

Love the thought of the alligators, we don't have then in Canada -but better you had used foam core floats. They don't sink. However. if the floats have too narrow a track, the wind can get under the windward wing and tip the plane over. But you'll never get a water-logged float!
Look at http://www.foamcorefloats.com/

float with prop
 

Did it 20 years ago install a small motor with drive shaft in the float that has no rudder on it the prop sticks out about 1/2 inch hook up to switch and two 1.5 V dry cells to make 3V AA's work good Working on a new set up Hobby Lobby sells a folding prop for sail boats that way there is no prop drag Also putting one in the hull of sea plane comes out of step has small cut out in hull bottom like half moon so when blades open they wont hit the hull but are flush with the bottom when folded so they dont hang up on anything also will work on float step if you do not want it at the back of float

Retrieval?
 

Dogs, Fishing poles, long sticks, onboard battery-driven propellors, radio-controlled boats, and tractor beams are all useful. Sometimes.

Ultimately, you're going to need a boat. You will have to get in the water and physically retrieve your airplane.

The other things are handy for those times when you can get by without taking a boat ride. A man-carrying boat will ALWAYS get the plane. Any of the other tricks works SOMETIMES. Which is fine if you USUALLY want to get your plane back.

Dog of Choice
 

Newfoundlands (I have seven) are the best. They have softmouth and won't damage the plane. They want to "rescue" everything that is in the water, your plane won't smell like liver, and they probably are too big for a gator to get in their mouth (mine are between 160 and 190 lbs) Like the lab you have to keep them ashore until needed or they will rescue every plane.

Retrieval?
 

Why send a dog when a wife will work so much better and you don't have to tie her to shore. It may take some coaching to get her swimming at first. Normally shiny or sparkly things work best. If properly trained she can also fuel, start, and tune your plane pryor to takeoff. *lmao*

Retrieval?
 

On small ponds or narrow waterways you might try a casting rod with a ball on the end of the line. It worked for us when we flew out of a farm pond. If a crash disabled a plane we'd take the ball off, put the lures back on cast for supper to take home. Oh yes, the pond was stocked.

Retrieval?
 

And if a gator gets her you might have solved another problem. :drowning: :D :p LMAO

That's why!!!!!
 

Now I understand the spouses who do not like their husbands hobby!!!!

I think I stay on dry land!


Cheers

Steff ;)

Retrieval?
 

I hope you know I was just kidding.

My solution
 

Greetings,

Just received my Donald 4 Seaplane kit.


While waiting for the kit I used the guts (motor, circuit board servos) from an
Aerobird (RTF) to make a air boat for a possible Donald 4 retrieval form shore.

If I land in the center of a lake and lack the power to taxi in...my plan is to
use my trusty marsh boat to circle the plane with tethered flyfishing line (line
floats on water with attached bobbers at 3-4 feet intervals) Then slowly pull
the Donald back to shore. (I may also be able to just push the plane in directly...??)

Anyway, I finished my home-made air-boat and it handles great and has a run time (7.2V NiMH) of around 20-25min. I’ve enclosed a picture of the "Rescue" craft.

PS Notice the "dual tupperware" chambers, one for the NiMH battery and the other for the servo/circuit board. I've never had to "BURP" a R/C
craft before....

--Kevin

Retrieval?
 

Hi Kevin4,

Your retrieval craft looks promising. We built a couple of flat bottomed barge type hulls from RCM plans back in the early 70s and had a ball putt-putting around the farm pond sitting under an oak tree sipping cool ones while the 30 min epoxy was drying back at the house.
I started to lay out a barge type of hull, but this time instead of air props, I figured maybe an inboard E-Motor with Forward and Reverse control. would be better. Forward would get it out to the plane, and Reverse would allow it to back in between the pontoons. I figured to secure a long stiff wire off the stern with a hook and a one to two inch hook on the end. Back in under the nose until the hook hit the pontoon crossbar. A little more power would cause it to ride up and over coming down behind it. Forward motor would snug it up and then the plane could be towed in. Sounds feasible but I have no experience with inboard E-motors and submerged props. That calls for a little more investigating unless some guys have some rhoughts on usable motors and throttles and such. Maybe Hobby Lobby is a good place to seek help.

Retrieval?
 

Kevin,
Cool job on the boat. I hope it works for you.

R/C Boats "sound" like a good idea but I think Grampaw hit on some of the "challenges" to resolve.

1. you're working at a distance. depth perception is not very accurate, and it's difficult to place the boat relative to the plane.

2. If you hook the plane with the boat, you'll probably be off-center. the boat better have POWERFUL steering capability to be able to drag a crooked airplane in a straight line.

3. If the airplane is other than upright or is damaged, dragging it with the R/C boat can cause additional damage

4. Lost parts get REALLY lost.

We have fooled around with R/C boats for retrieval in the FLFLFL, and relegated them about ninth out of four choices in order of usefulness. They SOUND like a good idea, but making it work is so complicated it's just easier to drain the pond.

In order of percentage of events that the method will work: (my estimate-not scientific data)
1. Man-Carrying boat : 99%
2. Fishing pole to cast over the plane and pull it in: 30-40%
3. Long pole with a big hooked end: 10-15%
4. Radio-Controlled boat: 10% maybe

You can ALWAYS go for a boat-ride and get the plane, unless it's in a tree or "missing", and I have needed the boat to get to the tree.

Sometimes, you can cast out and snag one: we use a large torpedo float and a one-ounce egg weight, (no hook)and we can cast about 75 yards. Airplanes are very "Snaggable", and it is rare that the line slides off once we start to pull the plane (gently).

For the planes that quit while taxiing out or in, or if a deadstick can be landed pretty close, a long pole with a shepherd's crook is handy.

Last time we experimented with the R/C boat, we got the towline wrapped up in the prop and had to go get both the boat AND the plane. :rolleyes:

Retrieval?
 

Jim, you touched on some very good points, and the survey is very enlightening. I am the only one in our club at this point that's interested in water flying, but that could change if just one plane gets going, as you probably know.
The retrieval of a stalled plane out on the water is my no. one cencern at present. They do quit in the damdest places, and I don't swim too well above water. The boat was an idea that appeared fair to start with, but once I played it out in my mind I came to same conclusion you mentioned about getting the plane secured in a proper position for towing, especially from any distance away that makes a good visual a bit dicey. If others show any interest, maybe one will have a small boat or dingy we can use. One of those "peddle boats" you use foot power on would work. We have lots of Commercial Crawfish Ponds around this area, but the farmers take a dim view of distrubing those precious creatures. Even a three foot deep body of water about ten foot wide would be great. I have a horse pasture that I may be able to convince the wife and kids...aw stop dreaming GP!

Retrieval?
 

Just so nobody thinks I'm a scroogy ol' grouch, there is ONE technique we have found that works with an R/C boat. I am NOT "Mr. Negative"

Attach the fishing line from a Rod and Reel to the boat. Drive the boat past the plane and make a broad sweeping "U" turn behind the plane.

When the line catches the plane, use the fishing reel to pull it in. THe Boat driver can pull, too, but he should stay far enough from the plane that he still has maneuvering room. If the boat has a problem, it is still retrieved by the fishing reel.

Retrieval?
 

You're not grumpy or grouchy, you've just done this long enough to know what doesn't work. ;)

Wanna start a curmudgeon's club here? :D

--Bill

Retrieval?
 

It's an occupational hazard of engineers, sitting around growling "Aww we already tried that, it won't work!"

Then some smart-alecky kid comes along and makes it work anyway.

Retrieval?
 

Grampaw,
As wet as cajunland is, you should have no trouble finding a place to fly floaties. Even a low spot in a field after a good rainstorm will work. You only need a couple of inches of water.

For a boat, a bateau or jon-boat works great. I had one of those Coleman plastic 12' jon-boats with a trolling motor and it was near ideal. A canoe would work if you can reach over the side and lift the plane in without tipping the boat. If you are in bigger water, a bass boat or a pontoon boat would be cool. You just have to go slow with the bass boat or the plane will blow around when you're carrying it and not flying it. I had an 18' runabout that was not very good for flying from because the freeboard was too high and it was uncomfortable reaching the water to lift the plane.

You could host the Lake Ponchartrain float-fly and Crawfish Festival.

Retrieval?
 

Hey Jim ....aside from the gator thing (I live near Lake Tarpon), any experience with a small inflatable (mini-liferaft)?

Retrieval?
 

>>any experience with a small inflatable (mini-liferaft)?<<

Directly, No.

Anything that will get you to the airplane and hold the plane or the pieces while getting you back is good.

If the plane goes down in the brambles on the opposite shore, or if the plane has an APC prop, is your boat going to be transformed into a bubble generator? Zodiacs and Avons are puncture resistant. A wal-mart vinyl pool-toy boat might not be.

Retrieval?
 

I've done some checking into using a kyak for retrieval, and although this may be a marginal solution, it is easily portable and beats wishful thinking.

I'll agree, a larger boat would be a better solution, but is an option that may not be available to all of us.

--Bill

Retrieval?
 

>>I've done some checking into using a kyak for retrieval,<<

I have 2 kayaks at my disposal: A cheepo fibergalass one and an upscale polyethylene "sit-on" kayak.

We take the dawg out for a boat ride in the fiberglass one, so it would make an adequate airplane retriever. The "good" (sit-on)kayak is so organized you can't take anything that is not designed to fit into one of its molded pockets.

With the cheapie jon-boat, I could row out, start the airplane in the boat, fly around, load the plane back in the boat, and paddle home.

I tried using the airplane to tow me but who wants to eat all that glow-fuel residue?

Good Feedback
 

Nothing like a bit REAL life experience to sober up an idealist.
After reading your postings I think I will explore a CHEAP inflatable raft or Kayak and dust off my old fish'in pole....I will still try my marsh/air boat if the plane lands (dead motor) within 20-40 feet off shore.
I still believe a lake setting, even with possible retrieval hassles, will provide more enjoyable flights compared to a crowded AMA airfield with new 2-4 folks who don't know why a frequency board was invented.
-Kevin

Retrieval?
 

Thanks for all the input Jim,
I plan on doing most of my initial flying (to get my feet wet, pun intended,) from a friend's pond at his home. He has both a "dry" strip and a "wet" one, and yet he drives over to fly at the club strip. Must be lonesome, but as soon as I get a float plane going he won't be!
I haven't seen it yet, but a couple the others have and they describe it as a "fire pond." Farms here, away from fire hydrant capabilities, have such ponds in case of fires. Pumpers can draw water from them. They are usually out in a clear area and make excellent float sites, but tend to get a bit deep in the middle. They aren't uaually too wide or long, so retrevial might not be as much of a problem as a river or lake.
We used to run boats in a like size pond and we'd get stalled boats back with casting rods and a weight instead of a lure. Good casting practice too.
As far as a Lake Ponchatrain Float Fly, well we may have to wait a bit on that one...but man that be a fun one at Mardi Gras time!

Retrieval?
 

Some farms have what they call"stock tanks" where the cattle water. Usually the cattle keep the vegetation down, and you can walk to any point on the bank to retrieve a plane. Also, they are not too big. The ones I remember would be good for spot-landing practice. Definitely use the shadow of the plane coming over the bank to judge your landing position.

I wouldn't fly a RED seaplane there if they have a Brahman Bull, tho' :-)

Retrieval?
 

A fish story:

This morning one of my flying buddies had a deadstick at the FLorida Float Flyers' Facility.

He wasn't very far out, so I tried to cast the famous FFFFishing bobber and weight over the plane to drag it back. The first cast was a little short, so I started reeling in fast to try again as the wind was taking it farther out. About that time WHAM! There was a big splash as a bass hit the bobber. He took it under and was making the drag in the reel sing. Then he jumped, and shook the bobber free. We never use a hook, but he must have swallowed the bobber to be able to pull so hard.

I pulled it on in, and there were bite marks on it (it's styrofoam)

So what would have happened if the bobber had gone OVER the airplane?????

Retrieval?
 

Jim,
After that tale, I think I'll use only unstocked fire ponds!

Retrieval?
 

wow Jim, nice story! You should've tried to reel her in though, but I guess if the plane was drifting, dinner doesn't take priority!!!

If that's what you meant, putting a motor on the back of the plane facing back is hilariously ridiculous!! You could just buy a car ESC which has reverse ($5 more, but weighs ~1oz more - better than another ESC and motor, esc, etc!))...then you'd have much much much more powerful back power, and still, if you're in the middle of the lake, forward is enough, as long as 'yer rudders work.

Rescue methods:
RC boat : very manuevarable, zero trouble, small, powerful, cheap, all-in-one package (like the firebirds of the plane hobby)...the HobbyZone R/C Zig Zag Racer:
http://www.ehobbies.com/rc-hbz-3310.html
a human-oar powered regular pontoon boat (that's what I have)
fishing rod (I don't like that idea...don't think it works as well as others)
a water rudder on the plane!!??

-aeroP

Retrieval?
 

cut out the Zig Zag racer boat- I just read Jim's post on boats being really bad.

Retrieval?
 

Nononono!. I have never meant to say that r/c boats are really bad. I regret sincerely if it came across that way.

If you ONLY have an R/C boat, situations will arise in which you will be disappointed in its capabilities. Other situations will arise where you say "Ain't I cool, I dragged my plane back with an R/C boat!"

The single most reliable and capable retrieval method is a man-carrying boat. All the other stuff works sometimes. All the other stuff is not "BAD" it's just less capable.

Retrieval?
 

I understand Jim, I just expressed myself badly. It would be cool, and MUCH less embarrassing. Say your plane gets stuck...going in a man carrying boat (which is what I own and use) is embarrassing, like the walk of shame. With an RC boat, you could even show off and brag, but you'll be a lot more embrarrassed when it won't work....
-aeroP

Retrieval?
 

Further evidence that you need a boat.

Retrieval?
 

> Further evidence that you need a boat.

Haha. And more evidence of the magnetism of wood!

Nice shot of Tampa Bay.... ;)

--Bill

Retrieval?
 

Sure doesn't look like a Florida Swamp.

Looks like a picture from somewhere a lot closer to me.

I swear I saw that before. Or at least something very much like it.