Drive lines
03-15-2010, 10:37 AM
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Drive lines
What's best for a high RPM setup??
Who prefers what
and why??
I am guessing most gas engines use the flex drive
typically what do the nitro setups incorporate
shaft or flex??
What do you prefer (whgat are you running)
and why??
I get that there is more installtion flexibilty with the flex drive
but is a shaft driven unit better??
In your opinion, why or why not??
Maintenance, is a shaft drive less maintenance than a flex drive??
Here's why I ask, I want to setup a Super Cat w/ twin Nitro and shaft drive
Is this a bad idea, and if so why??
This situation then begs the question, can twin nitros be setup to counter rotate?? I am guessing, NO!
Anyone have any knowledge of the gearsets that drive 2 screws from one engine??
http://206.206.85.209/xtdoc/Details....0&store=mhzusa
http://206.206.85.209/xtdoc/Details....1&store=mhzusa
03-15-2010, 11:34 AM
#2
RE: Drive lines
Oh boy, lots of questions, I like that!
I prefer flex cables over hard stafts. The only straight shaft drives that I've used were in RTR boats and didn't care for them. Other than those you really don't see the straight shafts used much at all here in the states. Nitro and gas both use the same basic setup, only the flex cables sizes are different but that depends on engine size.
Is it a bad idea? Seeing how you're new here I dson't know what your level of experience is but twin engined anything is 3 times the headaches. I'd just stay with one engine.
I won't even go into dealing with MH$-USA.
Counter-rotating of nitros can be done IF you get the right engines otherwise another headache.
Which Super-Cat, the Eddie Barnes one? If so, I'd just drop a nice gas engine in it. There's some other tricks involved in setting up one of Eddie's hulls but we can get into that later if that's what you have.
I prefer flex cables over hard stafts. The only straight shaft drives that I've used were in RTR boats and didn't care for them. Other than those you really don't see the straight shafts used much at all here in the states. Nitro and gas both use the same basic setup, only the flex cables sizes are different but that depends on engine size.
Is it a bad idea? Seeing how you're new here I dson't know what your level of experience is but twin engined anything is 3 times the headaches. I'd just stay with one engine.
I won't even go into dealing with MH$-USA.
Counter-rotating of nitros can be done IF you get the right engines otherwise another headache.
Which Super-Cat, the Eddie Barnes one? If so, I'd just drop a nice gas engine in it. There's some other tricks involved in setting up one of Eddie's hulls but we can get into that later if that's what you have.
03-15-2010, 03:58 PM
#3
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RE: Drive lines
Thanks for the info and "your" opinions Ron.
I have the Admniral 40" plastic catamaran hull
and dare I say, I think it has some serious potential!
To be honest, all boat stuff both big and small costs so much I'm just reasearching for the best setup for my one and probably only ,) build $$$.
There are some decent RTR boats out there, but... None setup quite the way I want mine to be!!! ,)
I want a big cat, that can go insane fast (maybe break somme records,) and can actually handle some rough real world conditions water for a splashin' crashin' god time!
I have two set ups in mind
One would be a single g26 or quickdraw 35
but, pushing 2 screws, 1 big engine turning both props (I believe suck a kit is available)
Pros: 1 engine to tune, fuel and maintain
Cons: Potentially less power / speed than a smaller or larger ,) double nitro setup (I don't know about that), as well crazy as it sounds, I want to work with the plastic hull (simply because it's light) and believe me it has been rough water tested!!! ,)
Two would be twin roaring counter rotating nitros, something like the 33,000 - 38,000 RPM range ($$$)(yeah big bucks i know for two)
Pros: fast, fast, fast. engine weight balanced equally into both sides and way down low in the lower section of the sponsoons. Because I just think that makes more sense, after all it is my dream boat ,) Another upside is if one stalls I still have one to navigate back to port! ,) BONUS!
Cons: Cost, tuning, fueling and maintaining 2 motors.
My gut, is telling me to go with the double whatever the biggest I can fit down low in the sponsons, it's a 40" Boat
I do however think it more practical to have a single setup but the biggest obstacle there is the cost for what I would want to setup.
G26 OR Q35 with the twin screw drive, which is like anothe $400.00 just for that part alone.
I would prefer to go with gas and not have the hassle3 of nitro but I am curious if nitro is actually a better fit for the given aplication given their size and RPM ranges, SICK!.
If I could I'd drop 2 QD 35's in there but I know there isn't room for that! .(
I know what I want, but I also don't know a thing about how exactly some of these parts work or what is best for what application.
That why I am seeking generous and wise folks advice for a booty haulin' setup! ,)
So I don't buy a bunch of crap only to have to buy a bunch mor crap! ,)
Here's the hypothetical question: What would you do, if you were setting up a 40" cat for booty haulin' speed?? I am just curious because many out there actually have experience witht he parts and motors we are discussing
Thanks for all your help!
I have the Admniral 40" plastic catamaran hull
and dare I say, I think it has some serious potential!
To be honest, all boat stuff both big and small costs so much I'm just reasearching for the best setup for my one and probably only ,) build $$$.
There are some decent RTR boats out there, but... None setup quite the way I want mine to be!!! ,)
I want a big cat, that can go insane fast (maybe break somme records,) and can actually handle some rough real world conditions water for a splashin' crashin' god time!
I have two set ups in mind
One would be a single g26 or quickdraw 35
but, pushing 2 screws, 1 big engine turning both props (I believe suck a kit is available)
Pros: 1 engine to tune, fuel and maintain
Cons: Potentially less power / speed than a smaller or larger ,) double nitro setup (I don't know about that), as well crazy as it sounds, I want to work with the plastic hull (simply because it's light) and believe me it has been rough water tested!!! ,)
Two would be twin roaring counter rotating nitros, something like the 33,000 - 38,000 RPM range ($$$)(yeah big bucks i know for two)
Pros: fast, fast, fast. engine weight balanced equally into both sides and way down low in the lower section of the sponsoons. Because I just think that makes more sense, after all it is my dream boat ,) Another upside is if one stalls I still have one to navigate back to port! ,) BONUS!
Cons: Cost, tuning, fueling and maintaining 2 motors.
My gut, is telling me to go with the double whatever the biggest I can fit down low in the sponsons, it's a 40" Boat
I do however think it more practical to have a single setup but the biggest obstacle there is the cost for what I would want to setup.
G26 OR Q35 with the twin screw drive, which is like anothe $400.00 just for that part alone.
I would prefer to go with gas and not have the hassle3 of nitro but I am curious if nitro is actually a better fit for the given aplication given their size and RPM ranges, SICK!.
If I could I'd drop 2 QD 35's in there but I know there isn't room for that! .(
I know what I want, but I also don't know a thing about how exactly some of these parts work or what is best for what application.
That why I am seeking generous and wise folks advice for a booty haulin' setup! ,)
So I don't buy a bunch of crap only to have to buy a bunch mor crap! ,)
Here's the hypothetical question: What would you do, if you were setting up a 40" cat for booty haulin' speed?? I am just curious because many out there actually have experience witht he parts and motors we are discussing
Thanks for all your help!
03-15-2010, 04:43 PM
#4
RE: Drive lines
You're wanting to go where few have, and that's for a good reason, SPEED COSTS $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
That being said, for a 40" cat, I'd look at a good .67, probably a CMB. I'd couple that to a single prop with a 1/4" flex drive and the rudder mounted to the right. Add a parabolic pipe and a two or three channel radio with a high torque rudder servo and you should be good to go. You're basing everything on a plastic hull, so you need to be VERY PARTICULAR on how well you clean the boat after running it as nitro will eat the hull unless kept clean. I'm a firm believer in the KISS principle and recommend you do the same. The more complex you go, the harder it is to maintain and the more it will cost, both up front and in the long run
That being said, for a 40" cat, I'd look at a good .67, probably a CMB. I'd couple that to a single prop with a 1/4" flex drive and the rudder mounted to the right. Add a parabolic pipe and a two or three channel radio with a high torque rudder servo and you should be good to go. You're basing everything on a plastic hull, so you need to be VERY PARTICULAR on how well you clean the boat after running it as nitro will eat the hull unless kept clean. I'm a firm believer in the KISS principle and recommend you do the same. The more complex you go, the harder it is to maintain and the more it will cost, both up front and in the long run
03-15-2010, 05:12 PM
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RE: Drive lines
Hydro Junkie
Point taken
I'd settle for a fast fun boat
emphasis on fast = more fun!
For the money, 2 Dyanmite .32 sure sound good and I have a hunch it would be enough power to really have fun with it
At the same time I am aware that a single setup would be less headache the biggest issue will be fabricating the throttle linkages so they work well and properly. I am thinking everything else should be a breeze ,) FAMOUS LAST WORDS, RIGHT
Doing the math, twin .32 is almnost equivalent to a single .67 and I'm sure much, much, much cheaper!
The twin .32 setup is looking better and better minus all the headaches of course ,)
Point taken
I'd settle for a fast fun boat
emphasis on fast = more fun!
For the money, 2 Dyanmite .32 sure sound good and I have a hunch it would be enough power to really have fun with it
At the same time I am aware that a single setup would be less headache the biggest issue will be fabricating the throttle linkages so they work well and properly. I am thinking everything else should be a breeze ,) FAMOUS LAST WORDS, RIGHT
Doing the math, twin .32 is almnost equivalent to a single .67 and I'm sure much, much, much cheaper!
The twin .32 setup is looking better and better minus all the headaches of course ,)
03-15-2010, 06:05 PM
#6
RE: Drive lines
Now let me do some math
One CMB .67 is around $500, two Dynamite .32 engines cost $159.99 EACH for a total of $319.98
One CMB .67 kicks out around 6 HP at between 25 and 28K, a Dynamite .32 kicks out 1.18 HP at 28K
One CMB .67 requires 1 flex shaft at approx $23 each, two Dynamites cost $18.00 EACH for a total of $36
One CMB .67 requires one collet at $14.95, each Dynamite requires a collet AND flywheel
Now lets add this all up. To get two Dynamites, it will cost you around about 2/3rds the cost of one CMB with a total output of 2.36 HP, LESS THAN HALF THE POWER OF ONE CMB .67. Add to this that you have to BUY TWO FLYWHEELS AND COLLETS, A SECOND DRIVE SHAFT FOR AN ADDITIONAL $15 MORE THAN THE CMB's SINGLE, as well as two headers and an additional tuned pipe, strut and prop. To me it sounds like you're getting less performance and all the costs by going with twin engines.
My advice, as I said earlier is to keep it simple and forget going twins. Otherwise, you're going to end up with a nightmare you won't be happy with
One CMB .67 is around $500, two Dynamite .32 engines cost $159.99 EACH for a total of $319.98
One CMB .67 kicks out around 6 HP at between 25 and 28K, a Dynamite .32 kicks out 1.18 HP at 28K
One CMB .67 requires 1 flex shaft at approx $23 each, two Dynamites cost $18.00 EACH for a total of $36
One CMB .67 requires one collet at $14.95, each Dynamite requires a collet AND flywheel
Now lets add this all up. To get two Dynamites, it will cost you around about 2/3rds the cost of one CMB with a total output of 2.36 HP, LESS THAN HALF THE POWER OF ONE CMB .67. Add to this that you have to BUY TWO FLYWHEELS AND COLLETS, A SECOND DRIVE SHAFT FOR AN ADDITIONAL $15 MORE THAN THE CMB's SINGLE, as well as two headers and an additional tuned pipe, strut and prop. To me it sounds like you're getting less performance and all the costs by going with twin engines.
My advice, as I said earlier is to keep it simple and forget going twins. Otherwise, you're going to end up with a nightmare you won't be happy with
03-15-2010, 06:09 PM
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RE: Drive lines
You can pickup a good .67 Nitro engine on E-bay for $125.00- 180.00 Picco OPS CMB, even cheaper if you watch. A .67 tuning pipe for $40-$60 ,2 ENGINES 2 glow plugs 2 pipes 2 props 2 much $$ Nitro is not cheap any more. glowplugs $8.00 each
.You can see some very good speeds with the gas engines, get a gas engine that you can add on, as you go. custom carb, custom flywheel bearings, No starter box needed. pull start
.You can see some very good speeds with the gas engines, get a gas engine that you can add on, as you go. custom carb, custom flywheel bearings, No starter box needed. pull start
03-15-2010, 07:26 PM
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RE: Drive lines
See, that's why they say to ask the experts.
Ok so I see your point !
Thanks for the help
I would prefer to go with a gas g26 but that might be too much for the hull to handle (the weight of course) what hull doesn't want to go fast or faster??
Back to the drawing board
I could...
try and stuff a gasser in the 40" plastic hull
go with a big nitro
or
fab up a larger hull from glass to accomodate a gasser
or
just buy one ready for a gasser
or
buy one RTR
None of which do I have the money for, yet!
So I have some time to think about it.
But, thanks for the insights and advice guys
This site is a valuable source of rc information
Thanks to all your help!
Ok so I see your point !
Thanks for the help
I would prefer to go with a gas g26 but that might be too much for the hull to handle (the weight of course) what hull doesn't want to go fast or faster??
Back to the drawing board
I could...
try and stuff a gasser in the 40" plastic hull
go with a big nitro
or
fab up a larger hull from glass to accomodate a gasser
or
just buy one ready for a gasser
or
buy one RTR
None of which do I have the money for, yet!
So I have some time to think about it.
But, thanks for the insights and advice guys
This site is a valuable source of rc information
Thanks to all your help!
03-15-2010, 07:35 PM
#10
RE: Drive lines
Since it sounds like you're new to boats, let me repeat some advice Buy yourself a RTR boat and learn from it. While you're learning, you can be saving up for a bigger and better boat. It will also give you a new perspective on boats, maybe your perceived ideal boat will change after you get into the hobby
03-15-2010, 09:02 PM
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RE: Drive lines
An RTR is excellent for learning and still fun after your a "pro" as far as gas RTRs your choices are slim getting something worth your money and time, aquacraft rio 51 is an OK hull wise but the engine is not the best actually believe i would put in a homelite before a fugi, venom has a very nice looking gas cat with usual rtr issues and an underpowered engine even full mod the cost to get there and its still no speed demon, proboat holds all the cards with the best engine out of the bunch an actual zenoah g260 but dont expect it to be much more than a play boat not made for racing in any aspect with hardware lacking, NOW if you would like to build a boat warehousehobbies has the best deal going, hulls are top quality, service top quality, and price is very reasonable. They sell kits that come with just about everything but radio equipment that you build yourself they make it almost fool proof to build your own boat and is a great learning aid still more of a play boat than racing but lots of fun, plus if you need help they are a call away and very willing to put forth the effort to help you, they also have a sale right now on the rtr gator under 700$ delivered cant beat that..
Would also like to point out that just because I say "play boat not a race boat" does in no way mean there is anything wrong with the boat it just means dont expect a new 700-1000$ rtr to keep up with a fully modified built for racing boat (if you got the cash Insane can build you a race boat for around 2g new) used 600-1500 depending what it is for a racer
Nitro or gas I wouldnt run ABS hulls.. Also might add you WILL meet some great people in this end of the hobby and have lots of fun doing it!!!!
Would also like to point out that just because I say "play boat not a race boat" does in no way mean there is anything wrong with the boat it just means dont expect a new 700-1000$ rtr to keep up with a fully modified built for racing boat (if you got the cash Insane can build you a race boat for around 2g new) used 600-1500 depending what it is for a racer
Nitro or gas I wouldnt run ABS hulls.. Also might add you WILL meet some great people in this end of the hobby and have lots of fun doing it!!!!
03-15-2010, 11:22 PM
#12
RE: Drive lines
OK, stop the bus!
I just read and replied to your other posting then what else you typed here. If it's the Kyosho C-! Cat that you have, to be brutally honest and seeing how I can't use words that wouldn't make it past the site censor anyway, you've got yourself a real clunker! Now I see why you were asking questions about the driveline. This boat won't take twin nitro engines and surely not a gasser
Put it this way, when Radio Control Boat Modeler magazine had trouble trying to say anything good about the boat they had problems doing that and they really sucked up to big money advertisers! Any decent Cat doesn't need trim tabs or turn fins as those are just quicky patches to cover up other handling problems.
Seeing how you haven't posted any pictures of it yet, would this happen to be the boat in question? I really hate to post this video as it's a joke.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W9tJG9RnDM[/youtube]
I just read and replied to your other posting then what else you typed here. If it's the Kyosho C-! Cat that you have, to be brutally honest and seeing how I can't use words that wouldn't make it past the site censor anyway, you've got yourself a real clunker! Now I see why you were asking questions about the driveline. This boat won't take twin nitro engines and surely not a gasser
Put it this way, when Radio Control Boat Modeler magazine had trouble trying to say anything good about the boat they had problems doing that and they really sucked up to big money advertisers! Any decent Cat doesn't need trim tabs or turn fins as those are just quicky patches to cover up other handling problems.
Seeing how you haven't posted any pictures of it yet, would this happen to be the boat in question? I really hate to post this video as it's a joke.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W9tJG9RnDM[/youtube]
