What order should I buy these tools?
#26

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 685
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Shenfield, UNITED KINGDOM
Forget about a bandsaw- a scrollsaw will easily cut 10mm MDF.
A bandsaw will tend to drag your fingers down whatever the speed, also the teeth tend to be coarser. A scrollsaw will vibrate the flesh up and down and probably not even draw blood if you are lucky. Catches your finger nails though!
A bandsaw will tend to drag your fingers down whatever the speed, also the teeth tend to be coarser. A scrollsaw will vibrate the flesh up and down and probably not even draw blood if you are lucky. Catches your finger nails though!
#27
Senior Member
I do not think the bandsaw is any more dangerous than any of the other tools; in fact, you will probably hurt yourself more often using the drill press than with any other tool. I have both the 16 inch 2 wheel bandsaw, a very expensive scroll saw and two drill presses. The scroll saw rarely gets used and I could get by quite well without it. The bandsaw gets a great deal of use and the drill press is used almost daily for many tasks. A set of drum sanders on the drill press is very usefull. I build large models, some very large so my requirements may differ from yours. If you are only building small models (.40 cu. inch or less) you might get by quite well with just a scroll saw though. I also use the table saw a lot (a 10 inch floor model) which will cut anything from 1/16 inch square strips from plank stock to anything up to 4 inches thick.
#28

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 685
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Shenfield, UNITED KINGDOM
This picture of 15mm melamine chipboard cut by my old Axminster fretsaw shows that this material or MDF is easily within the scope of this type of machine.[img][/img]
Of course when using a scrollsaw you should treat it as a dangerous machine just as much as a bandsaw but you will have ( hopefully ) a greater margin of safety. Treating a scrollsaw with respect will be good practice when you use other machines. Buy a scrollsaw now whilst they are cheap and practice on scrap wood until you have mastered it. Then see if you still need a bandsaw.
A 1993 catalogue shows a similar Axminster fretsaw as £135, so the current prices at less than a third of this cannot produce much profit and they will surely drop these items soon.
The secret of fretsawing is firm pressure down onto the table and slight pressure in the direction of cut, never forcing the saw. Right angle corners are made by cutting right up to the corner and then backing out a bit and cutting round in a slight curve. Then go back later in the opposite direction and complete the corner.
Of course when using a scrollsaw you should treat it as a dangerous machine just as much as a bandsaw but you will have ( hopefully ) a greater margin of safety. Treating a scrollsaw with respect will be good practice when you use other machines. Buy a scrollsaw now whilst they are cheap and practice on scrap wood until you have mastered it. Then see if you still need a bandsaw.
A 1993 catalogue shows a similar Axminster fretsaw as £135, so the current prices at less than a third of this cannot produce much profit and they will surely drop these items soon.
The secret of fretsawing is firm pressure down onto the table and slight pressure in the direction of cut, never forcing the saw. Right angle corners are made by cutting right up to the corner and then backing out a bit and cutting round in a slight curve. Then go back later in the opposite direction and complete the corner.
#29

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 685
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Shenfield, UNITED KINGDOM
Sanders
I think you will find hand sanding with a Permagrit type tool is a very practical way to shape ply or balsa parts. It is fairly cheap , quiet, does not produce much dust & certainly does not fan the dust all over the place. The two photos show a piece of 3mm liteply with a 3mm pencil mark on one. The other shows the marked area almost removed in 25 strokes of a coarse Permagrit angled block. Note this is 25 firm, slow, forward strokes and not frantic work as used in glasspapering. This produces an accurate square edge. Each stroke therefore has removed about a tenth of a millimetre or so. The dust seems coarse and not the fine stuff that goes everywhere.
I think this is all you need to shape ply for aero models or boat models - just one Permagrit angle block coarse one side , fine the other side. People say these "never" wear out in normal modelling use. Compare this in price to a sanding machine plus the necessary dust extractor and the replacement belts & discs.
All the fiddly inside curved bits can be finished with a round engineers files or shaped glasspaper blocks just the same with either method. Or you could buy a whole set of Permagrit shapes. Actually just one square Permagrit file is a useful addition to do inside corners or spar slots.
If you are not convinced, take a piece of wood to the Permagrit stand at a show and ask them to demonstrate. The UK distributor is the well known aeromodeller Ian Richardson and I would expect them to be at the Alexandra Palace model show in mid January as they were last year.
As a low budget alternative you could probably get the etched metal sanding plates sold by Proops (rather like the discontinued Sandvik Sandplate material ) and fix them to a wood block. Note that a proper shaped hand grip is important to
I think you will find hand sanding with a Permagrit type tool is a very practical way to shape ply or balsa parts. It is fairly cheap , quiet, does not produce much dust & certainly does not fan the dust all over the place. The two photos show a piece of 3mm liteply with a 3mm pencil mark on one. The other shows the marked area almost removed in 25 strokes of a coarse Permagrit angled block. Note this is 25 firm, slow, forward strokes and not frantic work as used in glasspapering. This produces an accurate square edge. Each stroke therefore has removed about a tenth of a millimetre or so. The dust seems coarse and not the fine stuff that goes everywhere.
I think this is all you need to shape ply for aero models or boat models - just one Permagrit angle block coarse one side , fine the other side. People say these "never" wear out in normal modelling use. Compare this in price to a sanding machine plus the necessary dust extractor and the replacement belts & discs.
All the fiddly inside curved bits can be finished with a round engineers files or shaped glasspaper blocks just the same with either method. Or you could buy a whole set of Permagrit shapes. Actually just one square Permagrit file is a useful addition to do inside corners or spar slots.
If you are not convinced, take a piece of wood to the Permagrit stand at a show and ask them to demonstrate. The UK distributor is the well known aeromodeller Ian Richardson and I would expect them to be at the Alexandra Palace model show in mid January as they were last year.
As a low budget alternative you could probably get the etched metal sanding plates sold by Proops (rather like the discontinued Sandvik Sandplate material ) and fix them to a wood block. Note that a proper shaped hand grip is important to
#30
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 658
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: London, UNITED KINGDOM
Sure. The reason was wondering if I needed a bandsaw was not for cuttnmg thick material, which could be done on a scrollsaw, but cutting straight lines... Is there any way to cut REALLY straight lines on a scrollsaw apart from by eye?
Andrew
Andrew
#31
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 314
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Dublin,
GA
ORIGINAL: kdc
Sanders
I think you will find hand sanding with a Permagrit type tool is a very practical way to shape ply or balsa parts. It is fairly cheap , quiet, does not produce much dust & certainly does not fan the dust all over the place. The two photos show a piece of 3mm liteply with a 3mm pencil mark on one. The other shows the marked area almost removed in 25 strokes of a coarse Permagrit angled block. Note this is 25 firm, slow, forward strokes and not frantic work as used in glasspapering. This produces an accurate square edge. Each stroke therefore has removed about a tenth of a millimetre or so. The dust seems coarse and not the fine stuff that goes everywhere.
I think this is all you need to shape ply for aero models or boat models - just one Permagrit angle block coarse one side , fine the other side. People say these "never" wear out in normal modelling use. Compare this in price to a sanding machine plus the necessary dust extractor and the replacement belts & discs.
All the fiddly inside curved bits can be finished with a round engineers files or shaped glasspaper blocks just the same with either method. Or you could buy a whole set of Permagrit shapes. Actually just one square Permagrit file is a useful addition to do inside corners or spar slots.
If you are not convinced, take a piece of wood to the Permagrit stand at a show and ask them to demonstrate. The UK distributor is the well known aeromodeller Ian Richardson and I would expect them to be at the Alexandra Palace model show in mid January as they were last year.
As a low budget alternative you could probably get the etched metal sanding plates sold by Proops (rather like the discontinued Sandvik Sandplate material ) and fix them to a wood block. Note that a proper shaped hand grip is important to
Sanders
I think you will find hand sanding with a Permagrit type tool is a very practical way to shape ply or balsa parts. It is fairly cheap , quiet, does not produce much dust & certainly does not fan the dust all over the place. The two photos show a piece of 3mm liteply with a 3mm pencil mark on one. The other shows the marked area almost removed in 25 strokes of a coarse Permagrit angled block. Note this is 25 firm, slow, forward strokes and not frantic work as used in glasspapering. This produces an accurate square edge. Each stroke therefore has removed about a tenth of a millimetre or so. The dust seems coarse and not the fine stuff that goes everywhere.
I think this is all you need to shape ply for aero models or boat models - just one Permagrit angle block coarse one side , fine the other side. People say these "never" wear out in normal modelling use. Compare this in price to a sanding machine plus the necessary dust extractor and the replacement belts & discs.
All the fiddly inside curved bits can be finished with a round engineers files or shaped glasspaper blocks just the same with either method. Or you could buy a whole set of Permagrit shapes. Actually just one square Permagrit file is a useful addition to do inside corners or spar slots.
If you are not convinced, take a piece of wood to the Permagrit stand at a show and ask them to demonstrate. The UK distributor is the well known aeromodeller Ian Richardson and I would expect them to be at the Alexandra Palace model show in mid January as they were last year.
As a low budget alternative you could probably get the etched metal sanding plates sold by Proops (rather like the discontinued Sandvik Sandplate material ) and fix them to a wood block. Note that a proper shaped hand grip is important to
Awesome!! I had no idea they made such things. I know what I want for Christmas now!
#32

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 685
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Shenfield, UNITED KINGDOM
Cutting straight is a problem with a scrollsaw and not a lot better with the small bandsaw either. A wide blade on a bandsaw with a very rigid frame is better but expensive.
You can cut fairly straight with practice and a deeply scored line will help.
There is a website which suggests holding a steel rule along the line and letting the blade contact the rule. Not tried this but it may work or may damage the rule.
It is a matter of choosing the right tool for the job. A £3 handsaw from B & Q will cut straight on DIY size jobs if you practice. A hand Mitre saw ( picture frame saw ) is very handy for small precision jobs up to 6 inch and is an essential item for me. Get a large one though.
For cuttting medium size jobs a tenon saw works OK but better is a pull saw either Japanese handle type or european handle type. These very fine blades cut on the opposite stroke to European saws and it helps to keep to a straight line. Clamp the work firmly or use a bench hook and practice slow steady cuts. Axminster list several pullsaws with european handle for about £8- I suggest the finest teeth are best for aeromodelling.
Worn out saws are the very devil to cut straight lines, even the cheap £3 saw will cut better than a great make that is worn.
If you want to cut stripwood you need a saw bench, but good ones are expensive .
Balsa stripwood is cut with a balsa stripper like the SLEC one. About £8 I think.
You can make the straightest possible cuts on ply up to 3mm and balsa up to about 6mm by using a Stanley knife and a straightedge. Use a brand new blade and use repeated cuts along the same groove. Clamp the straightedge if possible. If necessary turn the wood over and run the knife along the reverse to finally release the part. This technique is great on liteply.
To sum up see which of the above saws fits you current project and have Father Christmas buy you that instead of socks or aftershave. Spend Boxing Day practising until your muscles know how to cut straight. The secret is sharp saw, clamped work, steady strokes and practice!
You can cut fairly straight with practice and a deeply scored line will help.
There is a website which suggests holding a steel rule along the line and letting the blade contact the rule. Not tried this but it may work or may damage the rule.
It is a matter of choosing the right tool for the job. A £3 handsaw from B & Q will cut straight on DIY size jobs if you practice. A hand Mitre saw ( picture frame saw ) is very handy for small precision jobs up to 6 inch and is an essential item for me. Get a large one though.
For cuttting medium size jobs a tenon saw works OK but better is a pull saw either Japanese handle type or european handle type. These very fine blades cut on the opposite stroke to European saws and it helps to keep to a straight line. Clamp the work firmly or use a bench hook and practice slow steady cuts. Axminster list several pullsaws with european handle for about £8- I suggest the finest teeth are best for aeromodelling.
Worn out saws are the very devil to cut straight lines, even the cheap £3 saw will cut better than a great make that is worn.
If you want to cut stripwood you need a saw bench, but good ones are expensive .
Balsa stripwood is cut with a balsa stripper like the SLEC one. About £8 I think.
You can make the straightest possible cuts on ply up to 3mm and balsa up to about 6mm by using a Stanley knife and a straightedge. Use a brand new blade and use repeated cuts along the same groove. Clamp the straightedge if possible. If necessary turn the wood over and run the knife along the reverse to finally release the part. This technique is great on liteply.
To sum up see which of the above saws fits you current project and have Father Christmas buy you that instead of socks or aftershave. Spend Boxing Day practising until your muscles know how to cut straight. The secret is sharp saw, clamped work, steady strokes and practice!
#33

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 685
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Shenfield, UNITED KINGDOM
www.Permagrit.com is the place to find an agent near you.
I use the Permagrit WB140 block sander with angled ends. Also the S204f square file.
These are all I need, but when I win the lottery I will order one of everything!
I use the Permagrit WB140 block sander with angled ends. Also the S204f square file.
These are all I need, but when I win the lottery I will order one of everything!
#34
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 212
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: wakefield,
RI
I own all the tools your looking at, and the one I use the most is my band saw, I use it every day.I can put a 1/16th blade on it and can cut a circle 1/4 of an inch.The only safety factor over a hand held is your fingers are right by the blade alot of the time, safety first. My drill press is a biggy to. I have a 5 speed bench model, works great.If I had the room it would be a floor model. I have all the drum sanders for it to. I use them alot. I love my 12 inch disk sander, I also have the combo 6x42 belt with the 6 inch disk, I don't use it much at all. I almost never use my scroll saw, just if I need to make a hole in the middle of something.You can buy a small 12 inch band saw for about $100.00 or so. But always but the best you can afford. Like my wife always says,"why buy two or three pieces of junk when you could have bought the better one", lol
#35
Take out a loan, buy them all. It took me years to accumilate all the tools in my shop and I wouldnt be without any of them now. Cutting straight on a scroll or band saw doesnt have to be a problem. Sharp blades and, like was said earlier, practice. After awhile it'll be second nature.
Edwin
Edwin
#36

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 685
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Shenfield, UNITED KINGDOM
Of course everyone has their favourite tool and this will vary depending on the quality of available tools, the work done & experience. However in this case we are advising someone who may well be a young person with a limited budget. It is the same situation we would be in if we had just had every one of our tools stolen by a thief-what do we buy instantly (before the insurance co pays out!) to start again.
We should define what we mean by a scrollsaw. I am referring to powered fretsaws saws which are somewhat like the Hegner Multicut and have a parallel arm movement. The cheaper ones like Rexon & Axminster take fretsaw blades and pin ended blades of 10 tpi to 30 teeth per inch. They have a blade stroke of 20 or 25 millimetres. These are a lot different to the old Dremel saw, vibro saws or the big old C arm type saws.
When I recommend the Axminster saw I am assuming that the user will want to make items like model aircraft formers or model boat frames out of 3mm to 9mm birch ply. These items often have many curves, straights , notches for stringers/ spars and internal cutouts. Sometimes the requirement will be to make curved items like keels or jigs out of hardwood up to ¾ inch (18mm )thick and several feet long or to shape balsa parts up to 1 or even 2 inches thick. I think a Hegner, Rexon or Axminster fretsaw will do all this well. We can buy the Axminster Perform CCFS for £31.49 ( 61 dollars ) or CCVFS variable speed for £49.86 ( 97 dollars ) today.
We should remember that the original question came from someone based in England where power tools have always been much dearer than in the USA. People like myself who visit USA every year have been astounded at the low prices for good solid machines in Sears etc. But these have not been available in Britain .However in recent years there has been a change in certain items- we can buy cordless tools, fretsaws and mitre saws (electric or hand ) at prices similar to US. So these are the current bargains and hence my advice to buy these now.
If you know anywhere in Britain where one could buy a really solid and worthwhile 12 inch bandsaw for the 100 dollars you stated, then please let me know! I will be first in line to buy one.
The cheapest decent bandsaw I can see is £79.95 (155 dollars ) and only has a 7 inch throat. Only take s ¼ to ½ inch blades at £6 ( 11 dollars ) each This is a lightweight (17 kilos ) machine & doesn’t seem a worthwhile buy to me. Really solid machines cost £300 (600 dollars ) in England and there are few secondhand machines available cheaply due to them always being a high cost item.
As you stated better to buy 1 good machine than several of low capacity or quality.
I still strongly advise buying hand tools and learning how to use them properly especially for someone who cannot afford to buy decent size machines.
" He who has the most tools and doesn’t die wins "
We should define what we mean by a scrollsaw. I am referring to powered fretsaws saws which are somewhat like the Hegner Multicut and have a parallel arm movement. The cheaper ones like Rexon & Axminster take fretsaw blades and pin ended blades of 10 tpi to 30 teeth per inch. They have a blade stroke of 20 or 25 millimetres. These are a lot different to the old Dremel saw, vibro saws or the big old C arm type saws.
When I recommend the Axminster saw I am assuming that the user will want to make items like model aircraft formers or model boat frames out of 3mm to 9mm birch ply. These items often have many curves, straights , notches for stringers/ spars and internal cutouts. Sometimes the requirement will be to make curved items like keels or jigs out of hardwood up to ¾ inch (18mm )thick and several feet long or to shape balsa parts up to 1 or even 2 inches thick. I think a Hegner, Rexon or Axminster fretsaw will do all this well. We can buy the Axminster Perform CCFS for £31.49 ( 61 dollars ) or CCVFS variable speed for £49.86 ( 97 dollars ) today.
We should remember that the original question came from someone based in England where power tools have always been much dearer than in the USA. People like myself who visit USA every year have been astounded at the low prices for good solid machines in Sears etc. But these have not been available in Britain .However in recent years there has been a change in certain items- we can buy cordless tools, fretsaws and mitre saws (electric or hand ) at prices similar to US. So these are the current bargains and hence my advice to buy these now.
If you know anywhere in Britain where one could buy a really solid and worthwhile 12 inch bandsaw for the 100 dollars you stated, then please let me know! I will be first in line to buy one.
The cheapest decent bandsaw I can see is £79.95 (155 dollars ) and only has a 7 inch throat. Only take s ¼ to ½ inch blades at £6 ( 11 dollars ) each This is a lightweight (17 kilos ) machine & doesn’t seem a worthwhile buy to me. Really solid machines cost £300 (600 dollars ) in England and there are few secondhand machines available cheaply due to them always being a high cost item.
As you stated better to buy 1 good machine than several of low capacity or quality.
I still strongly advise buying hand tools and learning how to use them properly especially for someone who cannot afford to buy decent size machines.
" He who has the most tools and doesn’t die wins "
#38
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,309
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Rowlett,
TX
A comment I will add is to go for tools with a flat surface instead of a grooved surface.
Small parts catch the corners in the grooves and makes it hard to cut accurately.
I love my 14" bandsaw and 10" tablesaw for all woodworking including model building.
Small parts catch the corners in the grooves and makes it hard to cut accurately.
I love my 14" bandsaw and 10" tablesaw for all woodworking including model building.




