I make boats, usually out of ply, MDF, balsa, and GRP. I do a lot of electronics, too. I cut out lots of templates and things from wood. I am starting up my shop, but in what order should I buy these tools? (I can't afford them all at once).

a: Bandsaw ([link=http://www.machinemart.co.uk/product.asp?p=060610015&r=2127&g=116]this one[/link])
b: Jigsaw
c: Pillar Drill
d: Electric sander

I use a drill alot, but how much more useful is a pillar drill than a usual electric drill? I have a portable jigsaw, how hard is it to cut curves with a bandsaw than with a jigsaw? Lastly, with the electric sander, can't you cut bigger bits off with the jigsaw/bandsaw, then take the rest off with sandpaper?

I don't know...


Thanks for your help, Andrew.

Between a bandsaw and jigsaw (scroll saw) the deciding factor is going to be how often are you cutting the center out of the pieces ? A bandsaw will be a little faster cutting, but it will not handle tight curves or cutting the centers out of formers. The scroll saw handles the tight curves and cutting the insides out of formers, but it is slower than a bandsaw and will not do straight cuts as well as a bandsaw. If you can only afford one, I suggest the scroll saw initially, then add the bandsaw.

I am not sure what a "pillar" drill is so I will pass on this.

For a sander, I would suggest a bench unit that is a combination of a belt sander and a disc sander. The combination unit should handle your needs.

One other tool you should seriously consider is a Dremel type tool. I have found they come in very handy for any number of tasks from enlarging something on a model to cutting off a length of music wire and everything inbetween.

LOL. I had to look it up - a drill press. I'd go for that first, then the sander. I don't own a band saw or a jig saw, but I'd like to have a band saw for reducing the thickness of planks.

Thanks a lot - that is helpful. The sander I am looking at is [link=http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Perform-CCBDS46-Belt-and-Disc-Sander-21703.htm]this one: - both a belt and a disc.[/link] I already have a dremmel.

I think (at the moment), I will go for:

Scroll Saw
Sander
Drill Press
Bandsaw

If at all possible, steer away from the 3 wheel band saws. They are harder to adjust and harder on blade breakage. I have both the 2 wheel band saw and scroll saw. I rarely use the scroll saw but it comes in handy at times. A good drill press is very useful but, with great care, you can do most modeling type drilling with a hand drill.

IMHO, If you can get the scroll saw and sander at the same time that would set you up pretty well especially if you have a dremmel. I have not built boats but I have built planes and those two tools is what I use the most. The other two I would get in this order band saw then drill press. You will use the band saw about as much as the scroll saw. Also Have you though about getting one of these sander instead? http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-P...der-462327.htm

Hmmm... interesting... Thanks for the info... .

Andrew

OK, mayby I will do that. I looked at that sander, but noticed the belt is only 2.5cm wide - while the other sanders belt is 10cm wide. Does this matter? I agree that a scroll saw is pretty useful.

The belt sander I suggested seems to be a little better to work with for small stuff. I use either 120-220 grit on the belt and 80 grit on the disc to knock down hard wood. I used my sander a lot when I scratch built a plane and I can see where it would be hard trying to use the big sander for the smaller stuff especially when the belt is in the vertical. Plus it is cheaper!! Then you could probably buy both the sander and scroll saw.

It does not matter. I find it easier to buy small stuff to work on small stuff. You will most likely be using the belt sander to shape edges, cicles, and any other forms on the outer edges. I have the same setup and I love it the way it is.

OK, sure. I will keep you updated with what I chose. By te way, the belt on the bigger sander can be rotated into the verticle. It is the same one (except motor size), as [link=http://www.machinemart.co.uk/product.asp?p=060615005&r=2126&g=116]this one.[/link]

Thanks for all your help!

These 2 both look the same as the one Idelbert posted. Which should I go for? Is the motor important?

Price Power (W) Belt width Disc Diameter
39.95 190 25 125
55.21 300 25 125

AH, ok, I did not know it would do that. It seems fine. I am just not sure about having that huge belt especially when you are working with small stuff.

Not really especially with small stuff. The reason the bigger belt sander has more power is because it is used for bigger/tougher wood. My friend is a carpenter and he had a belt sander like I have. He sold it to me and bought one like you are thinking about buying and he told me it works great for him because he works on cabinets and the like. The one I bought from him works great for me because I work on small stuff.

I would suggest you buy a scrollsaw whilst they are still so cheap. I bought an Axminster scrollsaw for £ 95 11 years ago - now Axminster offer a similar looking one (Perform ) for £31.49 special this month. Latest model has a blower etc too. Never regretted buying mine except they are cheaper now! However they do not cut straight lines very easily. Worth having at £31 -definitely! (I have found Axminster a good firm to deal with too)
Small bandsawa are not much use.
Sanders- I use a Permagrit hand sander - an essential tool I think. The 6 inch angled end type is best I think. About £12 - expensive but good. Best thing is they do not make much dust.

I use a drum sander on my drill press. Drums come in all different sizes and grits. I am like you, and can't afford to buy all the tools I want, plus space is an issue in my workshop so I try to get the most out of what is available to me. A drum sander on the drill press works well- it has served me for many years.

Cowana,

I have a sander like the one you reference and it works fine. However, I'm kicking myself for not seeing one like [link=http://www.axminster.co.uk/pricing/INC/recno/1/cid/UNTSSMDW5V7DNG107751HVF6XTN7JOQ5/product-Axminster-AW18BDS-Narrow-Belt-and-Disc-Sander-21365.htm]this[/link] before buying.

One general comment about small power tools. The band saw you linked has a bunch of grooves in the work surface. For small stuff, a totally smooth surface seems to work better. I had a band saw with grooves and always wished it was smooth.

Compare the weights of the CCS130BD2 and the AW188BDS. 27 kilos and 7kilos! Also the CCBDS46 at 20 kilos.
You need a permanant position for heavy items. Consider if you have enough bench space. Will you still have room to swing a wing?

The drum sander sounds a good idea but not that cheap at £7 or £8. See comments on this by Alex Whittaker in the latest RCME

I have a Bandsaw,Scroll saw,Sander,Drill press.
Get the scroll saw first.
Sander second.
Band saw 4th
Drill press last

You need some way to cut your parts and a scroll saw will do more then a band saw it just takes more time and long straight cuts are harder. I have found the fine tooth blades work best for not tearing up the back side of the part. The cut from any angle blades are a PITA for me. Good idea but i just cant get them to cut straight.

The sanding you can do buy hand. Takes time but it is a tried and true method. I bought one with a 4inch belt on top and a 6inch wheel on the side. The side wheel is great at shaping round parts and getting a nice matching angle on several parts. The top belt is actually to big. It does work great for bigger pieces where you need a long straight edge or simply to remove stock. But be sure it is resting against the stop or it can through it acros the room. If i was going to get another one it would have the disk and the smaller vertical belt.

The Band saw it great! I have the smallest narrow blade i could find on mine. It will cut a circle almost as small as the Scroll saw. I almost only use it now but there are a few times where the scroll saw is the only way to go.

The drill press works like a drill press. Not needed but when you want it,,,it is a nice extra.

FWIW
Pat

What would you recommend from these scrollsaws?:

Price .........Speed .......Power (W).....Model
39.36 ........1400 ............90................Peform CCFS
56.86 ........700-1700 .....90................Peform CCFS MkII
70.48 ........400 - 1700 ...120..............Clarke CSS16V
They all have blowers, tiltable tables, and a 16 inch throat. Which would you go for?

So a summary so far: I will get a scrollsaw first, mayby with a sander. Then a bandsaw for cutting straight lines, then a drill press.

I have never found any need for variable speed. However if you intend to cut metal or perspex then get variable speed.
The Perform CCVFS has variable or two speeds and has the blade tensioner on top which is handier when you do internal cuts and replace the blade. ( a similar looking machine from Rexon (£79 from Screwfix) has a quick release handle for blade tension ) Also the Perform might have an aluminium table. If you keep the machine in a shed in English climate a cast iron table might rust.
My machine is very satisfactory and is similar to the CCFS which is £31.49 until 31st Dec. If your budget is tight buy this one. However you will probably only buy one scrollsaw in a lifetime and it is better to buy what you really need and cheaper in the long run. So there is a case for buying the CCVFS which is £49.86 according to the Christmas list Axminster sent me last month. Also note that postage of £4 is levied on orders less than £45 so the £49 model is nearer to the cheap one!

I do not think Clarke is such good value. Axminster are a nice firm, I bought a Luna Woody fretsaw 11 years ago and was not happy with it and spoke to Axminster they said OK pay the extra for an Axminster fretsaw and we will collect the Woody and deliver! Cannot beat that for service!

However I suggest you consider visiting their Sittingbourne branch and viewing both models before deciding. Sittingbourne cannot be much more than an hours journey from anywhere in London.

On the Sanders note that the some only have dust collectors on the disc while the CCS130 has two collectors -one on the belt as well. Looking at a similar Rexon one in B&Q today I was not impressed at the rigidity and would not bother to buy one. Buy a Pillar drill for £40 or so instead. Do not fit the chuck but try to get a better chuck first. (If you fit the chuck you will never get it off again) Better chucks like Rohm or Jacobs grip better and do not slip and mark your drills. However I still have the original chuck on mine and it works OK.

Right. I now want an axminster drill press, scroll saw (the CCFS MKII), sander, but I am undecided about the bandsaw, so it is time for:

Which Bandsaw? (Dramatic music plays).

Price..........Power (W)...Width (Inches)..Wheels.......Speed...............Name
£79.95..............250.............7.5.......... .......2 ............Fixed...........Axminster Perform CCB
£82.23..............350.............7.5.......... .......2 ............Fixed...........Machinemart Clarke CBS190
£105.73............500.............12............ ......3 ..........Variable.........Machinemart Clarke CBS12WV
£129.94..........350..............9.............. .....2 ............Fixed............Axminster AWSBS2

The AWSBS2 seems the only one to have. The rigidity of the frame is crucial and this one is said to be stiffer than most ( by Axminster themselves ) Try to find if a magazine has tested this bandsaw, or go and see if Axminster will demonstrate it. Take a piece of hardwood for them to cut. The trade rating sounds better than hobby.
Don't forget that a bandsaw is quite a danger to your fingers while a scroll saw often doesnt even cut your flesh if you touch the blade.

My Black & Decker 3 wheel bandsaw has hardly ever proved useful for modelling. Bandsaws are too dangerous for fiddly model work and this one is not man enough for cutting woodturning blanks or DIY carpentry.
Blades are expensive and fiddly to change. There is a good book on setting up a bandsaw called something like 'getting the best from your bandsaw' by Sterling books I think maybe Patrick Spielman the author.

A scroll saw takes cheap blades. I use 25 tpi pin ended blades. Fretsaw blades take a lot longer to thread through internal cuts than pin ended. Buy at least one spare set of fretsaw blade holders if you use plain fretsaw blades - one to hold a fine blade and at least one other to hold a coarser blade. Saves time fixing the blade in the blade clamp.

The Axminster ND12 drill looks worth the extra as you get a better chuck. Same again -trade rating not hobby like the slightly cheaper ones. A machine vice is essential safety item. Or the gadget like half a Mole wrench for clamping wood.

Thanks for all your replies.

I wasn't really thinking about spendng that much on a bandsaw. I don't want it for incredibly thick wood - 1 to 4mm MDF and hardboard would be the usual kind of stuff, with 10mm MDF being th most. My handheld jigsaw has no problem with this, and can cut it easily. I was hoping to spend less on a bandsaw, and I don't really think that I need one rated for trade. A manual saw or the bandsaw at school would be used for really big tasks. Is a bandsaw with variable speed good for being less dangerous?

Andrew