lownslo

Hello out there, I just soloed last fall. Our club has very good instructors. Saying that... one thing that was missing was rudder instruction to any real degree. I am "miffed" when it comes to landing with a cross wind. I have no problem with "control reversal" when the plane is coming at me. But I am affraid to throw in any rudder because I can't seem to grasp it. Are there any tips that can help me EASILY figure out correct input etc. (EXAMPLE: I use the tip of moving the stick to the "low wing" for aileron control). My transmitter is not the computer type. Also..... if one of you experienced pilots would be so kind as to run through your procedure in landing ...say with a 10 mph. crosswind. Do you stop using ailerons at some point and use only rudder? I sure could use some mental input while the "snow is coming down here". Then maybe the actual stick movements will come easier "when it counts"

PS. If the type of plane makes a difference, to any degree, I will be flying a Cessna... similar to an Avistar. I also have 2 waiting for their maiden flights. GP SpaceWalker and a StarDuster.
(similar to a 4* 40)
Thanks in advance........lownslo

Bob

Ed Smith

It is quite likely that all of the control surfaces will be used while landing. So be ready.

It was best explained to me this way. When landing use the engine to control altitude and elevator to control speed.

If you think about it it makes sense. If the engine is shutoff you will lose altitude no matter what you do with the other controls. So if you are losing altitude give it some more engine and the airplane will start to climb.

If you are coming down too fast give some up elevator, the nose will lift and the airplane will slow down. It will not climb because you are throttled back.

Try to avoid using aileron while landing, for steering you should use rudder. Aileron input at slow speeds can cause a wing to drop and not be recoverable close to the ground.

There is a starting point for you.

Ed S

LuvBipes

My Feedback: (4)

IMO good rudder use is what separates the casual sport flyer from the really accomplished pilot. As you progress towards aerobatics rudder use ceases to be an option and becomes a must.

Once you have learned to use the rudder, you'll be flying on windy days while the rest of the crew sit it out.
As far as easy tips, the rudder reverses just like the ailerons do when the plane is coming towards you. So to correct an unwanted heading change or reverse a bank (on a high wing plane) push the rudder in the same direction as the wing that is low.

High wing planes (like your Cessna and Avistar) will turn quite well on rudder alone, so in order to get some meaningful practice, you might consider performing most of the flight with rudder instead of ailerons.

My cross-wind landing technique is the following:
Turn into final but overturn or under turn a little so that the nose is slightly pointed into the wind. This will compensate the drift from the intended flight path because of the wind. The plane is effectively moving slightly sideways at this point - what is generally known as "crabbing".

Hold this heading (nose into wind) using the RUDDER and only use the ailerons to keep the wings level. Since highwing planes will turn on rudder application, you will have to apply OPPOSITE ailerons to keep the plane from continuing a turn into the wind.
Because the plane is flying "dirty" due to the cross controlled rudder / ailerons and because its flying "sideways", drag is much increased as compared to normal flight conditions. You must, therefore, increase power and apply a little up elevator to compensate for the increased sink.

A side benefit from learning to effectively "crab" your plane, is that it comes in handy when you come in too hot and risk overshooting the runway. By inputting cross controlled rudder / ailerons, you can quickly loose altitude, reduce speed and still make your intended landing spot.

FIVESQUARE

I have to ditto ED and Bipes,
The best thing a new pilot can do is pick up a little cub...(40 size)....
You will learn rudder or you won't fly.....difficult...yes, but it will make you think you have removed your lead shoes...When you fly your other airplanes.
Good Luck,
5x5

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

Hmm. If you follow some of the above advice you will increase your risk of losing models. How do you do a flick roll or spin? Elevator (for slow speed stall) and rudder. Steering with rudder while landing places you in a dangerous situation. You should not be going so slowly that you are in danger of stalling the downgoing aileron, if you are then you are also in the same danger of entering a spin by using rudder. A plane's direction is changed by banking it, the job of the fin and rudder is to keep the plane straight on into its own wind, not the wind that you on the ground perceive.

Aircraft that appear to be crabbing sideways across the ground are in fact pointing straight into their own wind and no rudder is involved. If rudder were required then full size pilots on long cross country flights would be tired out after 5 minutes! When changing your heading in a cross wind you still use aileron to turn the plane. Using rudder will simply yaw the plane which creates extra drag which clows you down even more at what could be a critically low speed already.

There are two ways to make a side-wind approach. One is to turn the aircraft in the normal manner slightly into wind so that it flies slightly sideways down the approach. This is exactly how you would fly that same path whether climbing, in level or descending flight. The wings are level, the slip ball is in the middle and the rudder is centred. Any correction to heading is made by a normal turn. Just as the wheels are about to touch down you use rudder to yaw the plane into the direction it is travelling to prevent the tyres being pulled sideways off the hub and also prevent the wheel direction from trying to take you off into the grass. The other method is a sideslip, it takes practice in full-size but much harder in a model. It is also more risky as the stalling speed is higher and therefore more likely to catch you unawares. The reduced vertical lift component and extra drag increase the rate of descent leading to a desire to pull back on the elevator (instead of the correct action of increasing power) which again adds to the risk of a stall. If the wind is from the model's right you bank it to the right. It therefore slips downhill to the right and compensates for the drift. However the fin tries to weathercock the model around to the right so you need some left rudder. Many planes will try to level themselves so you end up coming down the approach with right aileron and left rudder, and you must actually land like that, the into wind wheel will touch down first then you let the other wheel down. As I said, it takes practice to do it in full-size, it is much harder with a model. The first method is used by gliders because their long wing span and low height precludes them from landing with a bank into wind.

An earlier post mentioned that on landing you should use the elevator to control the speed, and power to control height change. This is absolutely correct, but it is not just true on approach. It is the fundamental rule at all times. I have flown full size from gliders through low power biplanes to jet fighters and the rule never varies from the moment the wheels leave the ground to the moment you touch down. A jet fighter's speed is just as sensitive to and controlled by elevator as is a glider.

Harry

lownslo

Thanks for all the input guys. It took me a long time to solo....... although I did do it on one plane. In fact, I converted that trainer to a taildragger and after a time it finally met mother earth too violently The point I am making is ...... it takes me a while to coordininate my mind and thumbs. Once I do it enough, then I am OK. Hope my plane will last while I am "conquering the wind"!!!! I am determined to learn this........ I hate sitting around waiting for the wind to die. Later, lownslo

Bob