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First bipe
I just finished my first biplane build. A BUSA 1/6th pup. The build itself was very enjoyable [aren't they all]. My auw including batteries [it's electric] is just under 6lbs and gives me just under a 100 watts per pound [more than enough I'm guessing]. Anyway I've flown numerous small electrics and a telemaster 40 and have gotten pretty confident with my 4*40 but have never flown a biplane. Any thing bipe specific that I should set up /watch for? Thanks for the help. Gary
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RE: First bipe
I love to fly my bipe but it did take some getting used to. Best thing would be to fly in very calm conditions until you get the hang of it. Take off and land into the wind as cross winds are a challange, land with power on and until it stops. I have found that too much rudder on the ground will get you in trouble and will result in a nose - over or worse. I fly off pavement so a nose over can bend the motor mount and need to check that consistantly - I found out the hard way a few weeks ago.
Harry |
RE: First bipe
"Any thing bipe specific that I should set up /watch for? "
YES. Your bipe is NOT going to float the way you are used to. Bipes are way draggy, and will have a tendency to drop as soon as you cut the power. You would like to FLY them to the ground, then cut the throttle. Les |
RE: First bipe
More of the same here. I have a Waco, Stearman, Ultimate, and all of them do not like to land slow. Generally 4-6 clicks of throttle trim does real well. Once the wheels are on the ground I bring the clicks back down. Of course I don't use that method anymore since getting a feel for it. The only other attribute I have found is useing rudder really helps in turns. For me without rudder the tail seemed like it wanted to loop around. Kinda slide outward away from the turn.
Good luck. |
RE: First bipe
ORIGINAL: acerc More of the same here. I have a Waco, Stearman, Ultimate, and all of them do not like to land slow. Generally4-6 clicks of throttle trim does real well. Once the wheels are on the ground I bring the clicks back down. Of course I don't use that method anymore since getting a feel for it. The only other attribute I have found is useing rudder really helps in turns. For me without rudder the tail seemed like it wanted to loop around. Kinda slide outward away from the turn. Good luck. |
RE: First bipe
Not so much being able to slow a bipe down, but once on the ground is when you need keep up the power allowing sufficient airflow across the elevator and rudder. At least that is what I have learned.
Harry |
RE: First bipe
ORIGINAL: flyallday Not so much being able to slow a bipe down, but once on the ground is when you need keep up the power allowing sufficient airflow across the elevator and rudder. At least that is what I have learned. Harry I can see where this may be helpful on a WW1 airplane where the gear is narrow and a little bit aft but on what I would call a " normal " bipe it really should not be any different then flying a mono. Landing fast is usually caused by having the CG too far forward. |
RE: First bipe
Yep, you have a point and I was referring to WWl aircraft. I have no experience with a "normal" bipe.
Harry |
RE: First bipe
Assuming a properly balanced and trimmed plane, the biggest thing is managing your momentum. The plane will slow down in a glide much faster than you are used to, so stalls come on quite suddenly. You have to really have your eyes on the plane and know how to recognize a stall coming on so you can be ready with the throttle. If you want to prepare, take the 4 star and practice doing landings at maybe 1/4 throttle, keeping the plane fast enough that you could just pull it back up if you wanted to.
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RE: First bipe
Speedracer, I was giving advice to a beginner, at least that's how his post reads. If you want to give him lessons on aileron differential, adverse yaw, climb and descent in relation to throttle, adverse torque on power up, etc.etc.etc. be my guest. My post was based on a beginner's perspective. You and I know quite well all those parameter's and what to do with them, he may not yet. I'll be waiting for your book.
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RE: First bipe
ORIGINAL: acerc Speedracer, I was giving advice to a beginner, at least that's how his post reads. If you want to give him lessons on aileron differential, adverse yaw, climb and descent in relation to throttle, adverse torque on power up, etc.etc.etc. be my guest. My post was based on a beginner's perspective. You and I know quite well all those parameter's and what to do with them, he may not yet. I'll be waiting for your book. I was commenting on the characteristics described by you about your airplanes in an effort to assist you. I guess no good deed goes unpunished. |
RE: First bipe
My apoligies speedracer. I misunderstood your meaning. And thank's for the attempted advice. I usually welcome all the advice I can get. Those were problem's I had years ago and good advice from people like yourself helped me thru it.</p> |
RE: First bipe
Thanks for all the advice.
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RE: First bipe
No worries. I remember when I started flying, getting trimming information was very difficult. Now with these forums I like to share what Ihave learned after 35 years of R/C. I still do learn as well.
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RE: First bipe
fly20- here is the best advice you will get. Find someone local that is capable and let them teach you the intricacies of set up. A club would be a good place to find such a person.
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RE: First bipe
Once again person came to right place for advice!
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RE: First bipe
I don't want to hijack this thread, but can anybody recommend a nice bipe for a 70 FS ?
It should be small enough to fit in a Trailblazer or should be easy to set up at the field quickly... |
RE: First bipe
I had one in a Great Planes Super Skybolt. It was sweet.</p> |
RE: First bipe
The Sig Hog Bipe is good for a 70 FS, plus you can bash it to look like most anything.
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RE: First bipe
You can't beat the great planes super skybolt. It flies great,is very stable and lands like a butterfly with sore feet.
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RE: First bipe
Great Planes Ultimate Bipe 40 for a 70 four stroke. Mine has a Saito 72. Very nice combination. It fits in the back of my Forester assembled.
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RE: First bipe
Great info on off topic here.. but how does this help the OP? Start another thread.
Harry |
RE: First bipe
Probably the most important set up condition you should follow is wing incidence. Check it then check it again. Usually the top wing is set with a slight negative incidence to the lower wing but, whatever the plans say, is what to follow(let's NOT open that can!). Get it wrong and things can really get screwed up. Keep your speed up as everyone suggests on approach. It's also been my experience that MOST bipes like rudder or at least respond more to rudder input. Last, and this could just be my perception, but a bipe seems to have a slightly faster response to control input than a monoplane. Once it's initiated everything seems the same but that initial movement always seems quicker to me. AND alwaysremember, REAL AIRPLANES HAVE ROUND ENGINES AND TWO WINGS!!:D
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RE: First bipe
I agree with wing incidence - especially the difference between the two wings. I just finished my second bipe and it has ailerons on both wings where my first one didn't. I am kind of anxious to see what happens there.
Note that the tail moment on a bipe is very short making the elevator and rudder very quick to respond. Ground loops are quite common as is takeoff pulling to the left. I found getting the tail up quickly was very important to get better control. And that is also a reason to land faster than a monoplane. |
RE: First bipe
All good advice in these posts. Even though a bipe has more wing area, they do require more power on the landing approach to keep the airspeed up. You need to fly a bipe in. Hold about a quarter throttle, and when you are over the threshold and a couple of feet off the ground cut the power and it should settle nicely.
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RE: First bipe
"The rudder in the turns thing is most likely an adverse yaw caused by a lack of aileron differential. "
I would argue that rudders are intended for "yaw" maneuvers, and ailerons for "roll" maneuvers. Therefore rudder in turns, and ailerons to keep wings level. Les |
RE: First bipe
With all due respect, getting the tail up early on takeoff in a taildragger can lead to groundloops. Keeping the tailwheel on the ground at low speed is an aid in ground-handling.
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RE: First bipe
That's if you have a tailwheel.
Harry |
RE: First bipe
Lol. Who would want a bipe without a tailwheel?
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RE: First bipe
Most bipes I have like power to land. I would set the throttle on the downwind to hold it level and as soon as I turned for approach I would start dropping the throttle a click or two until it was at the decent rate I wanted. Then I would just let it settle on the ground and then drop the throttle almost to idle. They would roll out nicely and then drop the tail. I fly off grass so a flip is common unless done properly. It takes practice.
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RE: First bipe
ORIGINAL: eddieC Lol. Who would want a bipe without a tailwheel? Harry <br type="_moz" /> |
RE: First bipe
Great stuff guys thanks. So far I have programed 50% aileron differential {enough?]. I also mixed in a little rudder with the ailerons [yes or no]. Keep the speed up when landing. I also have a tail skid,as per the plans. I wont have to worry about cross winds as I have a large grass field. This is gonna be interesting.
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RE: First bipe
Flyallday,<div>Keeping the tail on the ground helps during takeoff and landing, wheel or skid. When you run out of rudder authority on landing, or raise the tail before you have good rudder authority on takeoff, is how groundloops happen. Your skid acts much like a locked tailwheel on a full-size. This is a good example of full-scale ops informing our RC activity. </div><div>
</div><div>One thing people forget is the double whammy of P-factor, gyroscopic precession, and a tailwheel. If you raise the tail too soon on takeoff, P-factor yaws the plane left in proportion to the speed of the attitude change (it's like pushing from the rear on the right side of the prop disc) and, if you don't have enough rudder authority, you're going into the weeds (or the pits!). It's hardly a concern on landing, as the torque is reduced and the rudder and fin are already flying. Sudden power changes or gusts during landing can upset that apple cart on landing still, so fly it until it's parked. </div> |
RE: First bipe
Well I don't have differential or rudder mix and my Camel is a pleasure (blast) in the air. There are more experienced people here that will chime in.
Harry<br type="_moz" /> |
RE: First bipe
ORIGINAL: eddieC Flyallday,<div>Keeping the tail on the ground helps during takeoff and landing, wheel or skid. When you run out of rudder authority on landing, or raise the tail before you have good rudder authority on takeoff, is how groundloops happen. Your skid acts much like a locked tailwheel on a full-size. This is a good example of full-scale ops informing our RC activity.</div><div></div><div>One thing people forget is the double whammy of P-factor, gyroscopic precession, and a tailwheel. If you raise the tail too soon on takeoff, P-factor yaws the plane left in proportion to the speed of the attitude change (it's like pushing from the rear on the right side of the prop disc) and, if you don't have enough rudder authority, you're going into the weeds (or the pits!). It's hardly a concern on landing, as the torque is reduced and the rudder and fin are already flying. Sudden power changes or gusts during landing can upset that apple cart on landing still, so fly it until it's parked.</div> Harry <br type="_moz" /> |
RE: First bipe
ORIGINAL: fly20 Great stuff guys thanks. So far I have programed 50% aileron differential {enough?]. I also mixed in a little rudder with the ailerons [yes or no]. Keep the speed up when landing. I also have a tail skid, as per the plans. I wont have to worry about cross winds as I have a large grass field. This is gonna be interesting. |
RE: First bipe
Rudder should be mandatory for any plane. It's called a co-ordinated turn.
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RE: First bipe
ORIGINAL: LesUyeda "The rudder in the turns thing is most likely an adverse yaw caused by a lack of aileron differential. " I would argue that rudders are intended for "yaw" maneuvers, and ailerons for "roll" maneuvers. Therefore rudder in turns, and ailerons to keep wings level. Les It would appear we are talking about two seperate typs of bipe here however some trimming methods work for both. Most of my experience is with aerobatic types, Ultimates, Pitts, Skybolts ect. Without aileron differential when an aileron command is applied most airplanes will yaw to the opposite direction. This is because the downward aileron produces more drag then the upward aileron. With differential set up correctly the airplane will exibit a more true roll axis when aileron is applied. This is going to make any airplane easier to fly. The last bipe I had ( Texas Model Planes Bucker Jungman ) did actually need 50% differential to get clean rolls without yaw coupling. |
RE: First bipe
ORIGINAL: mike31 Rudder should be mandatory for any plane. It's called a co-ordinated turn. |
RE: First bipe
Some models, particulary older scale models, do require rudder to coordinate the turn. This sometimes can not be trimmed out. Use of a aileron to rudder mix is the way to go here.
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