Build-n-flyer-RCU

My Feedback: (4)

I think that I have just about all the hard parts figured out and/or finished, so my project should hopefully move along a little faster now. I am going to wait to post any pics of the assembled plane until it is complete and detailed. I figure that a couple of months more should just about do it.

The wing assembly has been completed and covered for a long time now. I just recently finished up the main pod and it really looks great- I've spent more time than I want to admit just cycling the nosewheel up and down and watching the gear and doors sequencing.

I have no idea how the plane will balance out or how much it will weigh- too soon to tell. But Sam put the batteries in the nose to get his plane to balance so I think that my heavier YS's shouldn't be a problem. (Tony, I was just kidding about pylon racing it- but it sounds like I hit close to home.)

This has been a loooong project for me. It feels good to finally see at least a dim light at the end of the tunnel!

Walt

Tony Pacini

Walt-

Hmmmmmmmmmm.................I may back off and use the 1.10s instead of the 1.40s or 1.60s because I don't want a whole bunch of motor hanging out of the cowl (I'd like to hide as much of it as possible). It appears that about 3/4 of an inch (the valve cover) sticks out when using the 1.10 and the 1.40/1.60 is 3/8 of an inch taller than that (drats.....).

I even considered using the new Evolution 26GT gassers but they're just as tall and weigh nearly a pound more (each) before adding mufflers (double drats).

It looks like Sam's setup (.91s/J-Tecs) is about as big as you can go and still keep it all under the hood.

Did Sam P ever fly his on the 4-blade props? If so, how did it do?

I guess I'll wait to hear how yours flies and balances with the 1.10s before I make a decision. If you end up having to add nose weight with the 1.10 then I'll use the bigger motors.

Keep us posted!

Tony

Build-n-flyer-RCU

My Feedback: (4)

Yeah, clearance in the cowl is a big factor in engine selection for this plane. I was thinking big Saitos at first. But the biggest Saito that would fit correctly would be a 100 and it would stick out almost as much as the YS. The YS 110 is a bunch stronger than the Saito, using straight pipes eliminates the muffler problem, and a pair of un-muffled 110's should sound really cool!

If you want everything inside the cowl then it looks like the 2-stroke 91 or equivalent is just about the only way to go. But based on earlier postings the 91 won't handle a 4-blade prop. I don't know if Sam P ever actually tried them in the air though.

Reliability was also a huge factor in my selection. Unlike most of you guys that are working on the 'Widow I've only flown R/C for a few years, and I know that my model building ability is way ahead of my flying ability. I've yet to build a plane that I couldn't get up and down in one piece, but I want to be as sure as possible that I will have enough flight time to get to know this one well before facing the first engine flameout with it! My experience with YS's is that they are more reliable than the Saitos or big 2-strokes, and this is a big plus for me.

I'm gonna go and fly the second 110 some more today, and while I am at it I'll get some thrust readings with the 2-blade and 4-blade props. I already put the digital fishing scale in the flight box.

Walt

Build-n-flyer-RCU

My Feedback: (4)

Here's a question for those that have already mounted both engines.

My left boom is finished and the engine is mounted. The score marks on the firewall that indicate center are right in the middle and there doesn't appear to be any right/left thrust. With the cowl mounted the prop shaft is in the center where it ought to be.

I am preparing to install the mounts on the right boom. Looking from the front, the factory score marks are offset to the right by about 1/8". It looks like the firewall may be slanted to give the right side just a little out-thrust but it is about impossible to actually see.

Are the marks correct? If I use them to line up the engine will the shaft be centered properly? I'd just like to be absoultely sure before I start drilling.

Walt

Build-n-flyer-RCU

My Feedback: (4)

No answers on the engine mounting question yet...???

Got tach and thrust readings on my second YS 110 today. 30% heli, open exhaust pipe, less than 1/2 gallon through it so far:

APC 15x8 two-blade- 9500 RPM, 14+ lbs thrust
APC 13.8x10 four-blade- 9000 RPM, 13+ lbs thrust

They should work just fine on the P-61.

The Extra that I am using to break them in on only weighs in at around 8 lbs. Just mildly overpowered

Walt

Tony Pacini

You can run the YS .91-1.10s on up to 55% with no problem at all; they like the nitro even more than the bigger motors do. They tend to get a big edgy on 60% and up but they'll run all day long on the lighter stuff. I've been running them in warbird racers for the last 10 years and wouldn't even consider using another brand when reliability and power are concerned. There is no substitute.

If you're getting 13 pounds of thrust on a 4-blader that'll give well over a 1:1 power-to-weight ratio when you get two of them on board. I guess that will be enough. I REALLY wanted to swing 16s, though! I might just be able to get away with it with the help of a little nitro

Build-n-flyer-RCU

My Feedback: (4)

Yeah, Tony, I don't think that adequate power is going to be a problem with my P-61. But I guess there is always room for more.

I've been working on the plane hard the last few weeks, which is why I've been posting a bunch. And I can't resist- here are a couple of pics showing my progress.

I have the engine mounts installed and assembled everything to check incidences, and while I'm at it take care of some other details. I used the stock mounts. I thought about going with aftermarket, but the 2-piece mounts that came with the plane let me set the engines back as far as they would go. Its been a while since I used 2-piece mounts and forgot how tricky it is to get everything lined up. And the mounts provided are kind of rubbery which makes it even harder. Here's where I ended up with incidences.

With the wing at 1 deg (nose up)
Stab -2 deg (should be able to trim it out)
R engine -3 deg (downthrust)
L engine -4 deg (downthrust)
R engine +1 deg (out-thrust)
L engine 0 deg (no left/right)
Alignment of the wings to the stab and rudders is close to right on.

I may do a little shimming to get the downthrust even for both engines on final assembly.

I weighed the assembly as pictured and I am just at 19 1/2 lbs. I still need to cover the booms, install the tailsurface and throttle servos, add another battery and more servo extensions, install control hookups to the tail, and there is still added trim to be installed. Maybe another 2 lbs?

I just installed the fiberglass fairings on top of the wing. I plan to glue the front fairings on permanently. For the rear fairings, when I take everything back apart I'll glue some hardwood to the back side of the holes in the balsa, drill out the holes further and install short lengths of golden rod to take the screw threads.

Still lots of details to take care of, but I figure that it should be ready for maiden in a month or so.

Walt

Tony Pacini

I sure do dig those props! Are those the 13s you tested? They look great!

Build-n-flyer-RCU

My Feedback: (4)

They are actually 13.8" diameter, just shy of 14" and yes, these are the props I've been testing. They aren't perfectly matched for the 110, but plenty close enough.

I already put a coat of dark yellow on the tips this evening. I'll mask it and paint the rest of the blades black tomorrow night. Add some Hamilton Standard waterslide logos and they should look good.

Now if I can figure out how to paint the spinners black with some sort of paint that's tough enough to hold up to an electric starter...

MANFRED

My Feedback: (27)

Just give a tooth with some 600 paper, then clean with acetone, primer, then paint. Mine holds up just fine to the cone starter. Just make sure you let the paint dry and set for awhile, makes it harder. Mine even held up to a light nose over scraping, painted red the aluminum didn't show thru.

Build-n-flyer-RCU

My Feedback: (4)

Manfred, what paint did you use?

I cover with Ultracoat but swore off the matching Ultracoat paint. I have been using Lustrecoat paint because it is readily available and it is OK, but not really great.

I've had very good results with white Rustoleum. But I never tried black.

I've been considering taking the spinners to an automotive paint shop to get something really tough sprayed on them. I have a compressor and detail gun at home but it would probably cost as much to purchase the paint, and I am not really that good with the gun.

Walt

Tony Pacini

Walt,

Don't be afraid to spray those spinners with your detail gun! A small part like that is about the easiest you could ever hope to do.

The color black is usually the least expensive, too. Just tell the paint store what you're trying to do and go with the least expensive setup.

All I've got is the basecoat/clearcoat stuff (which will work fine) and I'd be happy to paint them for you if you can spare the time and send them to me. I've even got a new quart of black that I haven't even opened yet. The stuff I use dries quickly so I could prime one night, paint the next, and ship back to you the following day. Priority Mail will get it there in 2 days.

Let me know if you're interested-

Tony

kram

My Feedback: (7)

Build 'n Fly:

You can even get latex paint on aluminum spinners to hold up to starter cones if you rough them with 400 cloth and pre-apply a "metal primer" designed for down-spouts and gutters you can find in a good hardware store (Loew's).

The red latex on my 38's spinners is 4 years old with that technique, and I use a Hobbico "180" starter on them every time.


mt

Build-n-flyer-RCU

My Feedback: (4)

OK, so it sounds like the consensus is that the spinners need to be painted.

My spray gun painting experience is limited to painting dirt track stock cars long ago. I wasn't much worried about the quality of the finish- just covering the weekly damage! And I certainly wasn't concerned with resistance to 30% nitro or selecting paint would hold up to a starter...

I'm sure that I could probably do it, but I would have to do some experimenting and practice with the detail gun and whatever paint that I bought. I can stand some minor imperfections in the finish of the ABS and fiberglass parts, but the spinners just need to be right! So Tony, if you already have it all worked out and are up to the task I may take you up on your offer. (I'd rather spend my limited time concentrating on completing the build right now than working on a "new for me" painting technique.) I'll send you a PM.

MT, that is a beautiful P-38. But latex isn't going to work for me on this one- with the shiny black covering/trim the spinners need to be good and glossy in order to match. Someday I will take the leap and glass a model, and work out painting techniques. But only after getting the 'Widow finished, and working out the pipe tuning issues with my Deullist, and assembling the "replacement" H9 150 P-51 ARF that's still in the box...

Walt

jlkonn

My Feedback: (1)

Don't mean to but in but perhaps you can have the spinners anodized?
I would also give TruTurn a call.
They may not offer the service of painting/coating aluminum spinners but they may have experience with customers that have had success doing it/having it done.
Just a thought.
Good luck!
JLK

Tony Pacini

Walt,

It would be a snap to do, no trouble at all. Ship here if you'd like me to paint them for you:

Valley Hobby Shop
8331 E Valley Rd
Prescott Valley, AZ 86314

Tony

MANFRED

My Feedback: (27)

Anodizing is a very expensive and not necessary option.

Build-n-flyer-RCU

My Feedback: (4)

Tony,

I'd like to take you up on your offer. I just want to make sure that if I send them to the hobby shop address that you are sure to get them without any problem.

There is no huge rush- they will be the absolute last thing that I need to install on the plane before flying it!

Walt

jlkonn

My Feedback: (1)

Manfred,
I recently moved to Iowa from Lincoln, Nebraska.
While living in Lincoln, I had a couple friends involved in a different hobby, that had occasion to have fairly small parts annodized at a company in town that did that sort of thing. I don't remember the details but I remember thinking it wasn't that bad cost wise.
Still might be worth at least checking in to.

JLK

Tony Pacini

Walt-

Yes, I'll certainly get them. Just send them to the shop "Attn: Tony"

T-

MANFRED

My Feedback: (27)

Out here in California everything cost more it seems. I got a couple of bids on the anodizing for my spinner and they were more then the spinner cost! One of the guys at the shop told me to sand, clean and paint with fuel proof paint and it would hold up, so far it has.

spitmad

Hey guys

I have used auto engine enamel (heat resistant paint used on engine blocks, rocker covers etc) on polished aluminium spinners on my p38 and that works very well, just roughen up and paint a few light coats on and presto !
There are lots of clours available and I have not had any peel due to electric starters yet.

cheers

Alan

Build-n-flyer-RCU

My Feedback: (4)

Wow... while everyone has been contemplating the best way to make black spinners I've been busy after work in the evenings finishing up preparing hookups in the booms and fuelproofing them. I just started covering the first one this evening. I've actually found covering this airplane kind of refreshing- its something that I know how to do without having to think too much! And compared to everything else it actually goes quite fast.

I also worked out the proper invasion stripe shape for the tail sections. You wouldn't think that cutting three vertical bars would be that hard, but when you lay the covering over the conical shape of the booms you discover that straight cuts become very curved ones. An interesting geometry problem that I ended up using Autocad to solve by making correctly curved templates.

I'm going to send the spinners to Tony early next week for him to paint black and clearcoat. Just a hunch that this is the best thing to do. But I am going to wait until I assemble the plane (again) this weekend and use the spinners to line up the final location for the cowls.

PS- a little comic relief...

I also had to do a little repair work on my old LT-40 trainer this week. I took it out to the field last Sunday for "rudder practice"- locked up the ailerons to force myself to fly with rudder control only, which I thought could be good left-hand practice for the upcoming 'Widow maiden. It went great the first flight but during the second flight the rubber bands that I borrowed broke during a high speed pull up and the wing separated from the fuse. I quickly cut the engine back and was actually able to "fly" the resulting lawn dart down with minimal damage- only a broken engine mount and cracked cowl cheeks! I was proud of myself- I've seen newbies do a whole lot more damage trying to land an intact airplane! [:-]

Walt

samparfitt

My Feedback: (43)

24th flight at the club's air show on Aug 13/14.

I plan on going to Muncie for the warbird flyin on Sept 3.
(probably will do more BS'ing than flying!)

Build-n-flyer-RCU

My Feedback: (4)

Sam,

I usually quit counting after the first 8 flights or so but I am very glad to hear that your plane is a success and that you are having so much fun with it! By the way- beautiful photo!!!

Tony

I re-assembled everything, then adjusted the engine incidence, and lined up and drilled the mounting holes for the cowls. So I will send the spinners on to you tomorrow via priority mail. I am sending the backplates too, but it may be cool to leave them alone so that the aluminum band shows at the back of the spinner. I know that this would not be "true to scale", but some artistic license has just got to be allowed. Tony, you be the judge.

Everything is covered now and I will be concentrating on the trim and re-installing all the hardware during the next couple of weeks. This airplane is really beautiful- it is giving me plenty of incentive to be extra careful with the detailing.

I have two more boxes of supplies en-route and I should receive them tomorrow. Speaking of not counting flights, I quit counting $$ spent on this airplane quite a while back too. I just don't even want to know!

I hope my plane flies!!! I'll be starting the count-down soon..

Walt