magnum500

hello all , i am new to the multi engine scene , i fly as often as i can , my aircraft collection consists of p51 x2 , p40 , cap 580 and a cub , my question is this would a p-38 be too much to get into ? i also like the china model products mosquito , or a transall c 47 , maybe a douglass dc3 , or a b25 . just some do`s and dont`s , any help and guidance would be great
Jay

Billy

My Feedback: (15)

Flying a multi engine plane is no different that a single , except for when you have an engine out. The p-38 would probably be the most handful if you lose an engine. If you go electric you should be fine. If you go nitro you will want to probably invest in two quality engines and possible even a pair of on board glow drivers to keep them hot at idle.

The key to any engine out, is to catch it as soon as possible. I think people get in trouble when they are out at the field and whith the sound of other models in the air, you can't react because you don't know you lost an engine till the plane starts to yaw or snap in a turn. Other than that go ahead and get a twin. It is a real blast and the multi engine harmonics sound great.

Billy

anonymouse

If you want to try twin engine plane, try the Hobbico Twin Star. A good introductory twin, easy to handle and yet aerobatic to a degree. Have flown only two twins, so little experience, but do know that as soon as you recognize an engine out THROTTLE BACK and get things sorted out. Recovery is a combo of your capabilities and the plane design. I agree that the P-38 or B-25 might not be the best to start with. Nothing like the sound of a twin unless it is a four engine plane. In any case engine reliability is required.

Ed_Moorman

My Feedback: (1)

THis weekend I should be testing my 23rd twin. Here's mu take on getting you ready for a big P-38.

Forget the TwinStar. I've got one. Right now it's on floats. It's small and doesn't fly very well. The covering peels off. Just about everyone wants bigger engines, but it will only hold 3 1/2 ounce tanks. It will not give you the feel of a P-38.

You need a bigger sport twin like a Twin-Air 45 or 60 from Northeast Aerodynamics. At least it will give you a bigger feel. Find out what engines you want in the P-38, buy them and the plane for them. [link=http://www.ne-aero.com/tw60_arf.html]Northeast Aero[/link]

Forget buying cheap engines. An engine out is the worst thing that can happen, especially to a P-38. Tapered wings tip stall. Buy the most reliable engines there are. I've tried all of them and,even though I have many different types of engines, nearly all of my twins have OS in them. Thunder Tiger is good, too. Forget Magnum-tried them. Same for GMS. You want something that is going to run every time-at least I do. No messing with it, no tuning or tweaking the needle, just ultimate reliability. Break them in first. I like to fly them in a single. In your case, I'd also fly them in a sport twin before the P-38.

Set each engine individually so it leaves a nice smoke trail. Don't adjust an engine with the other running. Forget the synching up crap and make sure both of them keep running. Believe me, 10,000 rpm is a lot more out of sync than 500 rpm. Don't let your buddies of club experts touch your needles. They more than likely don't have a clue about a twin. Twins need to be a little richer or they will lean out and hang you out to dry.

Right now my buddy and I have 6 flight worthy twins. The TwinStar seaplane has GMS .32s which run some of the time. The other 5 have OS, AX, FX & LA and they run all the time. All the rest of my planes, single engine, have some other type of engine except my break-in Stick that has a new OS .55AX in it for flying in. We've got Thunder Tiger, GMS, SK, Magnum, Tower, Evolution, Saito, MVVS and I forget what else. They run fine except when you put 2 of them together. Now I admit I am critical. I don't want to ever touch the needle valve after I have it set. I don't want to do anything except pour in fuel, flip and fly.

As for flying, learn to use your left hand on the rudder. Practice flying engine out. I see these guys who climb up high, throttle back, set one engine to stay at idle, then slowly run the other one up. You're not learning anything except that you have a left hand. If you want to see how your plane flies on one engine, fill one tank 1/3rd full, take off and fly acro. The engine will quit when it quits and you won't expect it. Learn to handle that.

In summary, get a good sport twin with the same size engines as the P-38 you aspire to. Learn to fly it. Break the engines in and set them on the rich side. Learn to use the rudder. Practice a lot. Good luck.

fancman

My Feedback: (16)

I think this will answer all your questions. It's a very good read.

http://www.rcwarbirds.com/Techniques...uespage.htm#t2

http://www.rcwarbirds.com/Advisors/T...sortwinman.htm

Build-n-flyer-RCU

My Feedback: (4)

Everything Ed said!

Start with a 2x.46 size sport plane and learn about setting up twins before going to a high $$ complex warbird. The Twin-Air 45 kit is a great place to start- a few years ago it was about the only really good choice. Now NE-A is selling the 2x60 as an ARF and there are a bunch of other sport ARF's that will accept a pair of 46 or 60 size engines.

Reliability, reliability, reliability! Good engines, meticulous installation and setup. OS 2-strokes may be a bit pricey but you can't beat them for a first twin.

Be gentle with the throttle, and if the plane is acting "funny" immediately pull back on the stick and think about what is happening. Most twin crashes that I have seen the pilot did not realize that an engine was out!

I like synch'd engines but I agree with Ed that this is a luxury, not a necessity. Use two throttle servos and a good computer radio to do this, do not rely on the needles.

Walt

schwatd

Yeah, Everything ED said!!!

Rich twins are GOLD in the sky, no doubt about that!!!!! Stick with OS Max engines, don't skimp on reliable power!

twinman

My Feedback: (2)

Yeah everything Ed says...ok,,on soap box..one small one more. Never fly twins alone. You need a partner or assistant. Too much spinning parts that will eat your hands and fingers. Once you get the engines set, have your assistant or two for larger planes lift the plane straight up and go to full power for 10 seconds and listen. If one engine sags and it might DO NOT TAKE OFF!! Bring it down and safely readjust the sagging engine until it is stable in this condition. Lose and engine on take off on a single, no big deal. On a twin and it dies.
In my opinion, the P-38 is the worst first twin that you can possibly try. High wing loading, very wide engine spacing, tapered wings, and small rudders. Have owned five and two now, but they demand attention like nothing else. Now, having said that, there is NOTHING in the air that looks as neat or stops the crowd ( Or causes bets by your "Friends" on the point of impact) as a P-38.
My P-38's all now have two gyros...personal choice. One on rudders and one on ailerons to aid in engine out. Now there is a new device called the twin sync that can also save an airplane if one engine dies. No, do NOT think going to Gas will be 100% reliable. It is not.
Do not fly twins unless you are able to ALWAYS use the rudder. You cannot learn in an engine out situation.
No, I am not trying to talk down to anyone, but I have made most of the mistakes you can make with these things and want to prevent others from the same mistakes..then get on with the neat part of WOWING the crowd with a multi-engine.
Good luck and welcome aboard..send pictures...........Uh.........after the first flight...bad MO JO to take picture before the first flight...told you twins make you nuts.
Twinman

magnum500

wow ! thanks for all the sound advice . as for reliability... hands down my choice was going to be an o.s , i have two , one in the cap and the other in the cub . they always seem to run with little preflight prep . as for practice flying with an engine out i have been using realflight and setting a random engine failure . i know realflight and actual flying are not the same in the manner of actually being at the feild if for only one reason , its not a big deal if a jewl of an aircraft is lost on realflight , just push the button and its back , its alot easier to stay calm in front of the pc .
one more question , twin tail or single tail , ziroli says two are better than one . any advice on that
thanks again
Jay

R8893

My Feedback: (20)

I have a kit bashed twin with two rudders and it seems to be much more responsive than the models I have had with one tail. It is a tail dragger and it is very steerable on the ground. Lost an engine on takeoff last weekend and was able to complete the climbout and return to land successfully. Based on this sample of one I would say the rudder in the propwash is more effective.

twinman

My Feedback: (2)

I would have to agree that rudder or rudders in prop wash is more effective.........PARTICULARLY as you said on take off. Most dangerous part of multi's.
Most twins however do not have that luxury.
Good Luck,
Twinman

magnum500

does anyone know if the seagull twin is a good choice to learn on ?

Ed_Moorman

My Feedback: (1)

Pusher-puller is really the best. No engine out problems.

But for more conventional designs, I still like twin fuselages for a kit bash. I guess we all have a tendency when we add nacelles to a single engine plane to leave the wing as is except add nacelles. The problem I have found is power. If you drop down in power, the plane seems to be underpowered with 2 engines. If you keep the same engine size, but use 2, you end up with a high wing loading.

I had a good flying Tiger 2 twin, heavy, but good flying. I added nacelles and used 2 OS .46AXs. The overall weight came out to be 9 1/2 lbs with a wing loading of 32+ oz/sq ft.

The Cedar Hobbies Twin Stick, on the other hand has an extended wing. Same engines (or same kind, but newer) and the weight was 8 1/2 lbs. It it a much nicer handling plane. I have done acro on one engine. Loops, rolls both directions, Immelmanns, Cuban-8s.

A really good flying twin of mine is a twin fuselage World Models Sky Raider Mach II. I extended the wing 14" for a new center section. Excellent flying plane. It does need bigger controls, but flies like a dream.

An interesting thing about the Tiger 2. I had heard about synching up engines and I've watched guys screw with their engines, trying to match them up over the whole rpm range. One guy messed with his for over an hour while I flew 3 times. One day, I noticed my Twin-Air 45 yawed on take off. I knew the Magnum .52s weren't together, but I thought if they just kept running, I'd be happy. When I got home, I got my son to help and I tached both engines. One was nearly a thousand rpm more than the other and I hadn't noticed anything different in flight except the slight yaw on take off.

After this, I decided to run a test. I pulled the AXs off the Tiger 2 and installed a Thunder Tiger .46 Pro/11-6 prop on one side and a Thunder Tiger .42GP/10-6 on the other. I took it out the next weekend, cranked up and flew. Nothing! No big deal! It had a little less power, but still flew about the same. I flew it several weekends and then took it to the Multis-Over-McDonough twin meet just south of Atlanta. I flew there and no one noticed that I had 2 different and different sized engines.

twinman

My Feedback: (2)

Add nacelles..twin fuse,,,larger rudder?? What kind of nuts is that???
Twinman

TexasAirBoss

My Feedback: (22)

For me, flying twins is very different from flying singles. I can go out and fly a single after a really hard day. I can be exhausted and brain dead and fly a single. I might work a mid shift and go fly a single without any sleep. Not so with twins. I need to be rested and sharp. I prefer to be psyched up for flying twins. And its different in another way, for me anyway. Besides being in the awareness zone, I need to take a little time to prepare. I generally stand out near the runway and imagine what I will do if the left engine dies on take off or if the right dies. I just stand there a few minutes and imagine various situations and how I will handle it. My twin would only turn toward the running engine. ANd to level back out, I would need to throttle back momentarily. So, it wasn't the best handling plane. But it was good enough. Twins require the pilot stay cool and figure out the problem as things are going very badly. Most people just freak and crash. Twins are not natural in that regaurd. The best advise I ever read was from a Flight Safety magazine on flying real twins. My advise is to forget what the model guys say and read up on flying real twins. Read about the aerodynamics involved when an airplane is flying with asymmetrical thrust and the consequences of control inputs. Take the model forum voodoo out of it and learn what really happens.

twinman

My Feedback: (2)

More Vooo DOOO...do not forget to keep the lungs working..Breath is good.
Theory on full size is good and good information, BUT on a model there is no feed back in the posterior area like a full size. Do not underestimate that.
Twinman

Wayne22

My Feedback: (2)

Well I agree with almost every single thing that Ed said...'cept one...

I think the twinstar is an excellent trainer (I agree that the covering is crap!), but - power it with smaller engines. It handles like a 15lb plane....wind doesn't bother it, it sinks like a rock if you pull the power right back..the controls are solid, but definitely not over authoritative..the rudder is almost useless. This makes it a good trainer, as it has similar handling characteristics of a larger (non aerobatic) plane, and has enough adverse characteristics that you are forced to learn, or else !! ( just like a full size T-6).

The reason for the smaller engines? You get much more flight time. You are forced to fly it, and cannot lean on excess power to bail you out if you run into trouble, and an engine out is a semi emergency that you must deal with. It will fly on one engine..barely, but the pilot has to do all the work...and believe me, it is a learning opportunity!
I have had 2 engine outs, and got it back to the runway both times after sweating a few blue ice cubes.... You don't go through an experience like that without learning something from it!! An over powered twin that will do aerobatics on one engine won't really teach you anything because an engine out is only an inconvenience, not an emergency. You never learn to deal with the situation, and it certainly won't prepare you for a P-38.

my 2.5 cents worth...

jusplanecrazy

Hi Twinman,
Need some help with set up.Bought a P-82 twin mustang at a swap.Have flown it a couple times with about a #9 pucker factor.The throttles are on a Y harness and I want to set them up on seperate channles.I E-Mailed the Futaba support page,but I don,t know if they misunderstood what I want to do or what .They sent me a 3page set of instructions using 3 pmixs,and what looks to me like a lot of overprogramming.I,m thinking I should be able to set it up about the same as the twin servos on the elevators of my Reactor.
I fly a Futaba Super 9 C .Any help out there ??? Thanks.....Bill

Dc2LightTech

I am setting up my first twin and have not found a good setup for my 9c. it seems that getting the throttle cut working and getting the rudder input connected to the two engines is a problem. it seems that syncing them is not that important. I would like the rudder swing to be able to ADD power only. I dont think it will work with the 9C