I've been flying scale stuff for a long time but I've never flown a twin prop plane. What would you guys recommend for a good twin trainer. I have two twins in the works, a KMP P38 and Joe Saiti's Me 262 and I want to train myself properly. I also have been practicing engine out on RealFlight with the P38, most of the time I crash but I'll keep practicing any helpful tips would be appreciated. I flew a Byron F15 quite a bit in the early 80's but the engines were so close to the centerline that an engine out was not a huge problem other than the plane was a pig.

Thanks for your opinions

John

John,

I have been flying twins for a while and I would reccomend two ARF's. Both would use OS 46AX's as they are strong and ultra reliable.

The first is the Cedar Hobbies Twin Stik. It's cheap and very forgiving. Not much to look at and prone to flutter, but properly built, it's pretty foolproof like all Stiks. Downside is the lack of fuse between the engines which is hazardous for starting...stay on you toes.

Second is the Seagull Dual Ace balanced at 100mm. This is one of my favorites and a good aerobatic, clean and honest airframe. Needs longer nose gear such as a Falts and larger wheels. This month's Model Aviation has a review. RCM did one a while back with Dick Petit.

I've also had several Duellists kits and now have Cox's ARF. While a wonderful airframe, it is not a good first twin.

Stay away from the P-38 and other scale models until you have a feel for syncing twins, etc.

Good luck....

Bo

Hay Hemi,
I agree with Bo 100% and I would add one more twin tainer Bo didn't talk about...and that is the .25/.40 Twin Star that Tower sells. I've two of them...one with a four engine mod...and this flys very nice too. I agree that the Cedar Hobbies Twin Stick is a nice flying model...and mine was well built. I do not have any hands on experience with the Dual Ace...but all the reports I've read on the airframe here at R/C Universe, give the model a good thumbs up. The Dual Ace is the most expensive of the twin trainers.

There is also write ups about the KMP P-38 by Twinman. He knows twins and I would suggest you read anything he has written on the subject of any twin. Just good information anyway you look at it.

Cedar Hobbies Twin stick is the best bang for the buck...at under $120.00 a good deal...and an excellent flyer...it does look ugly as sin...but it is in the ugly stick family. My ugly stick uses two K&B .40's. You can use any .40/.46 size engine you want on the model...and it will fly well.

The Twin Star can be had for about $109.00 & with Towers special offers, less...and a great flyer too...and an OS .25 will fly it with authority. I used two .32 on mine...the only issue I had with the Twin Star was the small 4 oz. fuel tanks. So I would suggest using a .25 on this airframe...you will not be disappointed. The second edition made some nice upgrades to the kit, and now uses a good heat shrink covering. My four engine Twin Star uses four .15's.

Soft Landings always,
Bobby of Maui

Thanks for the information. This will help me find the right trainer. I have a nice pair of OS46 FX engines so I need find something that will handle these engines. In the mean time I found a ME262 along with the P38 for practice on RealFlight. I have the program setup to randomly do an engine out. Man is that tough. I try my best not to turn into the dead engine but most of the time I lose the plane. Oh well, practice makes perfect, at least its just a simulation.

Best regards

John

Hay Hemi,
You didn't say what version of RealFlight, but my RealFlight has the Twin Star.
Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui

The AMA Model Aviation came this month packed full of how to get started in twins info.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. DO NOT START WITH A P-38!!!!!! I do not care who makes it!!...Well..the profile is ok, The wing loading is too high, rudders too small, engines too far apart..Own two now and have owned three others!! One survived to sale!! Do as I say not as I do. Yes, the most distinctive plane in the air. Consider the twinsync on ANY P-38 and I use two gyros.
Do you ALLWAYS use rudder with aileron ALL THE TIME.
I vote Cedar Hobbies Twin Stick for your 45"S. It will fly single engine relatively easy, but you need to learn to do that..and it is a lot of fun.
Add a little epoxy to the fire walls.
Good Luck,
Twinman

Twinman
Yes I always use rudder with ailerons. Been flying scale planes since the 70's and coordinated rudder makes for smooth turns. I just got the latest AMA mag so I'll check it out.

I'll check out the twin sycn. How do you have the two gyro's set up. I use one in my Kangaroo to help keep it straight on the take off roll. I'll check out the twin stick.

Best regards

John

There you go, Bo, giving Dick Petit all the credit. I did the review for R/C Report on the Seagull Dual Ace. I also did the Cedar Hobbies Twin Stick review in my column.

Hemi,

If you want to build one the Twin Air is a good 1st twin.

http://www.ne-aero.com/tw45.html

There were some lengthly threads on this one.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_2593012/tm.htm

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_13...tm.htm#1355375

I see he is out of stock on the Twin Air now, but it may be worth checking out.

Greg

How about between the Twin Air and the Hobbistar mod shown in this month's Model Aviation? I think the Seagull Dual Ace COULD be an option, but I know nothing about it.

I am eventually wanting to work my way to a TF Cessna 310 or some other really cool twin-engine. As far as building those two birds, I am comfortable either way.

This would not be in the immediate future, due to school, but perhaps a year down the road or so.

Bob
I'm using RealFlight 3.6 and I found the twin star and having been flying it a lot. I can manage to land that one with an engine out but the P38 is another story. I can generally get it back to the runway but I have a to tough time slowing it down enough to land it smoothly without samshing it to bits.

Old Rookie

I watched the video on the Twin Air, iit sure looks nicer than a twin stick, but I think I'm going to have to bite the bullet and get one just to serve the purpose even if I don't like the way it looks.

Question
With a pair of OS46's which would be a better all around twin trainer, the Twin Stick, Twin Star, Twin Air if it was available or Seagulls new twin featured in AMA this month?

Thanks

John

hemi,

I didn't like the looks of the Twin Air either.
The plane lends it self well to modification.
I put a turtle deck on mine and changed the dual rudders to look like the Ultra Sport. Basically it looks like an Ultra Sport twin. I put retracts in it also.
The kit was one of the better ones I have built. Laser cutting and wood were excellent. It will be interesting to see what modifications will be done on the Twin Air MKII.

Greg

I've got all 3, Twin-Air 45, Cedar Hobbies Twin Stick and TwinStar.

Twin-Air 45: Easy to build, some carving. Flies like a pattern plane, very stable and groovy. I used 2 Magnum .52XLS engines and it was fast. Handles an engine out well.

Twin Stick: Not the best ARF in the world, but good for the price. Be sure to re-glue the nacelles. Comes out very nose heavy so I moved all the servos to the rear and put the battery in a compartment in the back. Flies like a Stick. Has big controls. Will snap and flat spin. I used 8 degrees of out thrust and I could do acro on one engine (OS .46AX) without rudder.

TwinStar: Good for a few flights. Small controls. Does not like full power on 1 engine. Sirriest covering job from the standpoint of longevity. First the red will come off no matter how mant times you have ironed it down before. Then the black, then the whole covering. My wings started to peel so I redid the outer panels with Ultracote. The nacelles are peeling now. I have it on floats and as soon as it gets really water logged, I am trashing it. I am tired of messing with a sorry covering on a marginal flying plane. If you can do acro on a Stick, you'll out grow the TwinStar in a few flights as soon as the newness of flying a twin goes away. The controls are made for a trainer, I mean a trainer-small. The tanks are small, just over 3 ounces, as I recall. So don't be thinking about a bigger engine.

The best quality in the bunch it the Twin-Air 45 if you don't mind building. Also if you like smooth, pattern like flying.

The Twin Stick is for screwing around, but it takes some fixing or the engines will shake loose.

If you can fly, forget the TwinStar, in my opinion.

Hay Hemi,
From what I can see, the Twin Air is not available for sale at this date. The Twin Star and the Twin Ugly stick are.

If you were a seasoned pilot, I would agree that the Twin Star would soon ware it's fun factor out with just a few trips to the flying field. It does have small control surfaces, but it is very controlable. Now your just starting out flying twins...so this is all new and I do believe the Twin Star will do the job of introducing you to the wonderful world of twin r/c flying. I personally like the Twin Star and if flies quite well with a pair of .25's. Yes the fuel tanks are just under 4 oz., but with a pair of .25's you will get enough flight time to enjoy the model. There are several good posts on the Twin Star. Plus its available, so are spare parts, it's cheap, and if flies well enough to teach you the baics. By the way...The Real Flight Sim, with 3.50.060, flies exactly like the model does. The Twin Star does not have much of a glide...neither does the R.F. sim. I flew my first Twin Star stock and I take it out ever once in a while and fly it. It is to me a good trainer...and that is what your looking to do...train and learn. You need to gain confidence in your twin flying...but you also need to have good basic skills flying on a single engine model first. If your progressed past your second or third model...then the Twin Star or, Twin Ugly Stick would be a good twin to begin with. I have two fist addition kits of the Twin Star...not the second issue of the model that Tower now sells. The fist issue had covering problems...yet my first model still has it's origonal covering. I just clean it right after I fly each flight...religiously. It has lasted this long because of this. I heard the second issue of the Twin Star used Monacote...but since I don't have one of the second issued kits, I can't conferm this.

In all reality...your getting into a training mode...in twin flying. And since you have already stated you have a pair of .46's...to me...the Twin Ugly stick is your ticket. It's inexpensive, Cedar Hobbies has them in stock for under $120.00 and with minimal work...your flying. It is as forgiving as any twin trainer model can be...and you can break in your engines on this airframe as you learn. You should always fuel proof every model engine/fuel tank bay...and balance it properly. If you pre-balance your model after you install your engines...on the balance beam...you can play with your radio gear placement on the balancing model...so you know where to place your radio gear to balance the model, prior to installing your radio and battary. I do it with every model I have this way, and it saves you a lot of reinstilation time if your first radio and battery placement is off, for balance issues.

It is most important that you learn your engines...what ever the make or model. Try to get two of the same make and model...and lot number, engines. Set up each engine onto itself...not to each other. I just get the idle close on my twins...for a rock solid near equal idle, and tune each engine to run it's best. I do not tune the high end of each engine to match together...but what gives me the most reliable run and transition to full throttle...and even if your high end is a few hundred RPM off from being the same, on your twin, it is not a big deal...you will not notice it in the air at all. All the time you spend here...learning and tuning your engines, and to get your engines to run reliable...will reap great rewards later in your twin flying. Before you make your first take off...get your engines to run good. Losing an enine on a twin is much different then on a single engine airframe. Believe me...stuff happens so fast that if your not paying attention...and you lose an engine...your in for a real surprise.

I haven't found a perfect ARF yet...the only models I find perfect...I either scratch build or kit built, I build myself. All ARF models need work and have issues...some more then others and just how it is. Again...some more then others and if you have built a few ARF's then you know what to look out for and how to properly mod your ARF, to fly safely. And if your not sure...just begin a post here on R/C Universe with your problem...and some one will step up and give you the help your asking for.

What ever you chose to do...just go do it and fly. Your in for a real kick in the shorts, for I love twin flying and the sound the models make. Different engins and headers make different sounds...all will be music to your ear...and all fun to fly. Some models take real skill to fly and keep in one piece...and the rush of it all...is ok too. I've lost seveal twins...well maybe more then just a few...but I'm not counting. I'm still learning and each model teaches me something new. And no matter what...they are all lots of fun for me.

Soft landings always,
Bobby of Maui

Bob and Ed

Thanks for the advice. Like I said, I've been flying for about 40 years. I started with a trainer and then moved into scale warbirds and big cubs. I've also spent time playing with ducted fans and eventually bought a kangaroo and got into turbines. I've have never really flown twins and that excites me. My old Byron F15 had two Rossi 90's and every flight was an engine out experience because the two engines in that airframe had a vibration when they where synced that would cause the carb mounting bolts to fall out and the carb would fall off and end up hanging from a fuel line. Funny thing was it was never the same engine and even loctite would not stop it. Since the engines where next to each other on the centerline there was no real issues with an engine out other than the lose of power. Bottom line for me is while I consider myself to be an experienced pilot flying singles, I've never really experienced multi engine flying and I think it would be great fun. You guys have been great and I truely appreciate your advice.

Thanks

John