Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

I've read many posts about the tail motors frying easily on the 22e and so did mine, after only 10 startups, with only the stock NIMH battery and no more crack-ups, crashes or other malfunctions (so far). This question may have been answered already in this forum, but I can't find it, so again is anyone using a better tail rotor motor for these things-I seem to remember someone posting about soldering a resistor in series in the voltage supply wire to drop the voltage, but I think this was only fro using lipos. Is there a brushless tail motor that can be popped in the 22e? I'm using the stock Walkera receiver and brushed motor for the main rotors-after changing the blade pitch and charging the NIMH through a few cycles it has plenty of power to get off the ground. Thanks.

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

try helihobby or rc and me also i think i saw some on hobbyestore also check out centuryheli...i seen it in one of them :D

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

Could you be more specific? I know these are made by Johnson motors. But I would like to hear from someone who has fitted something better than the stock replacement tail motor-I'm sure there must be something more durable as I don't trust these at all, even with a heatsink. If someone can direct me to another post if this has already been discussed, thanks.

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

why don you try the direct drive tail motor for the GWS.. it comes with the blades and the longer tail motor.. it last longer than the stock and is more responsive...

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

JD

Have to tried looking into a twin tail motor upgrade? Supposedly this reduces the workload of the one motor and splits it to the second. There is one at this page http://www.helihobby.com/html/dragon_fly_upgrades.html but I don't know the fit.

I'll looking to see what I find out

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

the twin system looks good. but still with the small motors like that it has a real tendency to burn up... its the design of this small motors that the problem.. well it is not really design to go on continues workload with all that power so it just heats up and burns the gold fingers it uses as connection.. better to make very small brushless motors to eliminate the small gold finger brush it uses

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

The GWS setup-might be better for me (fewer parts to lose or break!) I had a hunch this might work. It certainly would avoid losing more tail rotor parts. I will install the GWS on 2 Walkeras if it works, I'll let you know-could replace the Walkera #4 and the 22e tail motors which by the way with this forum's help, I now have both airborne! It took alot to set up the 22e. The 22e CG is inherently tail-heavy-the true CG on mine without battery is just behind the main shaft. By putting the stock NIMH vertically instead of horizontally, it helped balance it better, but still needed some weight in the nose-that was my biggest problem! And better hardware in the head to replace broken linkages, but that is another thread, sorry. But man, can this baby fly when it's set up right-really nice. Thanks again much for the advice, I appreciate it.

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

Are you running a heat sink? This, and not letting the tail motor trying to run while stalled, are probably the most important part of tail motor longevity.

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

JD

if you wind up coming up with a replacement please please please .. post it in my [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4502359/tm.htm] Walkera 22e replacement parts list [/link] in order to consolidate and help everyone finds things easily :):)

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

OK, will do. I will post it only if I'm certain the part is working without damaging anything else. I am using a store-bought heat sink, and experimenting around with home-made stuff. I just broke apart the old burned-out tail motor-wow not much left in there-busted-up wires and pieces of metal-not much to it. I'm still confused about TX dip switch #6-tail C. What's the difference between on-off here? I know factory default is off, but does it matter-I'm guessing off varies with the mixer/receiver and on controls it with the throttle?

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

check this out [link=http://www.walkera.com:8080/bbse/viewtopic.php?t=288&highlight=dip+switch]dip settings and description[/link]

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

That's what I needed to know-the Walkera posts actually had a link back to the RCUniverse forum which answered my question about how #4, 5 and 6 DIP switches are used-and cleared up my confusion about the #7 ccpm/normal switch also. The 22e is a collective pitch copter, but its servos are not set up as other collective pitch copters would be, thus #7 should be off-talk about confusing. And this post claimed some of his DIP switches are labelled backwards! I guess I'll have to experiment to see, but I have a better understanding and have to do some more studying and practicing. Thanks Krisma.

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

np.... happy landings

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

I used the EDF-40 Ducted fan on my Honey Bee and I love it! I hope it last a while, I plan on using the EDF-40H on my 22E after a few flights with the o.e.m setup. Motors come with heatsinks and the units are pretty inexpensive. See this post for pics of the mod....>>> http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4530551/tm.htm

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

Very nice-how did you cut the tailpiece, is this balsawood or something else? Some other very nice upgrades-the landing gear looks pretty cool-some of the other aluminum parts are a little expensive, but the tail rotor options aren't. I just ordered the high authority tail motor from another vendor-I think I'll try that with a direct drive prop first-maybe I'll put that one on the Walkera #4 and the ducted fan on the 22e.

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

high authority tail motor??? is that what it's called?

and with that in mind I need your help people:

I finally lost my tail motor but it didn't burn out, it crashed out... tail rotor hit something and I think caused the motor to fall apart internally.

what I need to know are the specs of the tail motor.. size, voltage (regulated by the resistor i assume). I can use this info to buy my new motor and post on my parts list thread

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

To JDBlackhawk123, Thanks! The tail fin is cut from balsa and is just a prototype, I may attempt to cut one from something even lighter and/or stronger, such as plastic film(like the original), or carbon fiber sheet. Helihobby, has several options for tail rotors, the high authority one, the ducted fan one, the dual motor one, etc, have a look...>>> helihobby.com they have very reasonable S&H.

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

To krisma, I am not sure of the resistor you speak of, the small electronic components soldered to the tail motor are capacitors, they are there to fight RF interference generated from the arcing that occurs between the motor's brushes and it's armature. As far as replacing your stock but damaged tail rotor motor, checkout Helihobby.com . I do not work for these people, but their prices, service, and S&H are very good. If you tell me your heli brand and model, I will try to help you locate the motor you need. I bought a couple of replacement parts(rotor head parts), a spare battery pack(8.4v NiMH $12), and two Ducted fans($14.99&$17.99) for US $49 and $5.50 S&H Good Luck!
PS Direct drive motors consume higher amps than the gear driven o.e.m. tail, this will result in additional stress on the speed controller, and reduced runtime per charge(flight time). While the ducted fan's motor is a direct drive motor, ducted fans are typically more efficient than a propeller, and the current increase will be smaller, say..somewhere between the o.e.m. tail and the direct drive tail.

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

To ccpmheli-yes, helihobby has a good variety of upgrades-aaarghhh!-I knew there had to be a catch with the direct-drive motor! I'll try it anyway, at least on one heli-if it sucks my battery down (which already doesn't give me much flight time) I will try a ducted setup. I've already purchased 2 props and 2 direct-drive motors. Hmmm....carbon fiber sheets for prototyping parts-very interesting. Maybe I can find a source-but I wonder how it would be to cut and trim. But thanks for the info, this will give me plenty to work with for awhile. And I really like the updated strut package on helihobby for the honeybee/dragonfly (AKA Walkera #4).

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

To Krisma,

Check this link:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWN%3AIT&rd=1

This is the direct drive motor with two propellers I just got on eBay. I'm not sure if this is the "High Authority" motor, that is just a brand name but they look the same. I don't know electrical specs, I tried to find a replacement at www.allelectronics.com but the one motor I had come across as a direct replacement with improved electronics is no longer in stock. I'll let you know if this setup is better than the stock walkera tail motor.

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

I would not worry about it, from what I have read a lot of guys use them to great satisfaction. The runtime may not be that noticeable. I'm sure I lost a little with the fan, but I could not tell much difference. I too experience about 5-6 minutes of runtime per charge(8.4 Volt, 650ma, NiMH). I think I am going to look into a 2s 1000ma or 1200ma lipo battery soon, should double runtime, and at this point in my flying skills developement, 10 minutes will be long enough between pack changes, and motor cooling. As far as all the upgrades out there, a guy could go broke in a hurry, and I am sorry to report that I already have the "fever". I am not sure what I would cut the CF sheet with. For CF tubing I uses either a file to deeply score it and then finish with a sharp Xacto blade, otherwise I use a cutoff wheel on my Dremel Rotary tool. Both work well. CF seems to like high speed cutting tools. I am thinking I can score the sheet with something and finish out with the Xacto. Let me know how the DD setup works, I am very curious. Good Luck!

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

Thanks again CCPM-Just fired up my Walkera 36, to compare with 22e. It's the only one I haven't smashed up yet (just broke the Walkera #4 trying some blade modifications which were apparently too much for the frail head components. Looks alot like the 22e, only bigger, heavier and even more difficult to fly! I think the 22e has a better weight/power ratio for lifting off with stock parts. Getting frustrated at my lack of flying ability with these, but I've worked more on the 22e and it was my first heli-I've been in this for about a month now and already have a kit box full of main blades, rotor blades, CA, a Dremel, x-acto knives and a full stock of heli-size hardware-I'm in it for the long haul! Talk to you later.

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

Have you done any sim flying with FMS or other. I don't know that it helps overall, but can help with orientation. Regarding the 22E, I posted the following in another thread, but never got any input, have you noticed this...."Hello, Regarding the 22E(latest version), has anyone noticed that the servo arms cannot be made to mount the servo output shafts at equal degrees? For instance(all TX sticks centered) looking toward the rear mounted servos(viewed from nose), ideally you want to see the arms at 180 degrees to each other, say 9 o'clock for the left arm and 3 o'clock for the right arm, and the forward mounted servo at 9 o'clock(as viewed from the tail). With a CCPM heli, it is essential that all serovs produce the same travel to all 3 pushrods for collective changes. Any difference in this will result in the swashplate deflecting in some direction with a collective input. As there is an exponential and non-linear travel produced by the arm(length it pushes the pushrod for degrees of arm rotaion), leveling the swashplate by changing the length of the pushrods, will not address this problem. Does anyone have a fix for this, short of tearing down the servos, or getting new ones, i.e. aftermarket servo arms(my Hitec 61's can mount the arms equally at 0-90-180-360)?!"

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

To ccpm, Your right, I thought it was part of the (rather strange) design since this was my first 3D with collective pitch I had no basis for comparison. The best I could do was zero the servos by disconnecting, centering the trims on the TX and reconnecting as close to symmetrically as possible. This doesn't solve the problem but I felt like I did something! I suppose one solution would be to completely replace the head assembly with a different design, (maybe someone somewhere has done this?). The more I study these, being able to fabricate and/or design small parts would solve alot of problems-not easy to do. I've just made 2 heatsinks from an aluminum can-not alot of cooling mass, but better than nothing-I bet it will work and will try it out today. I forgot who posted this but thanks. And yes I've practiced using FMS, and I follow the website that steps through practicing in a small square which is what I'm doing. But I still can't keep any of these stabilized in a hover for more than a few seconds-not yet! All of them seem to veer hard to left regardless of trim settings and I can't get out of ground effect long enough to counteract this. I'd be happy to be able to hover steady for more than a few seconds. I've set CG, blade balancing pre-flight and dynamically, hasn't helped much so far. I have yet to cycle my batteries with a real charger (just got a "Speed Delta" with linear and pulse charging, auto cutoff and variable amperage and am using that with a 12V 7A battery) more than twice, which means they're not really conditioned yet I think-have been using the stock walkera NIMH charger. Have a multimeter and have gotten good voltages, but haven't checked under load. I won't give up, just feel like giving up!

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

The CCPM head is OK, its just that the servo output shafts on the stock servos don't have a spline count/spacing that allows the arm to be mounted correctly. I am fixing to buy 3 Hitec HS-55's from Hobby-Lobby.com , the output shafts will allow for the proper mounting of the arms. The HS-55's enjoy a pretty good reputation. They are on sale this week for US $12.99 ea, and only $2.99 to ship the three of them. Actually Hobby Lobby will ship anything that will fit(many heli spares can fit in one of these) in to a 4"x4"x4" box for $2.99. Here is a link to the sale if you are curious...>>> http://hobby-lobby.com/dont-tell4.htm.
As far as FMS goes, I found the Huges 500 is a good heli for practicing hover. Some of the helis are too sensitive, if you want to add challange, you can make the wind speed higher. I also want to get a better charger than the stock "forget it and fry it" charger.
As far as sustained hover, what your doing is better than taking her up and crashing, certainly cheaper. You will get there. I thought I was there, and the other day, 3 minutres in to hovering, I suffered a brain cramp, got disoriented and dumped the heli in to the ground, fortunately I chopped the throttle and the heli suffered no damage. I like the heatsink idea, I had thought to try to make one out of some aluminum tubing I have, I guess it would have a little more cooling mass, but extra weight would tag along. I have noticed my motor barely gets warm when I fly with the canopy off, so I thought I might address the heat problem by cutting some strategically placed cooling holes in it, won't help the looks, but that is secondary to me at this point.

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

ok everyone..... got some good news. Finished talking to Tim from rcandme.com and they are now carrying a 22e dual motor tail holder.

[link=http://www.rcandme.com/servlet/the-431/CP-dsh-011-22E-Tail-Holder/Detail]22e dual motor tail holder[/link]

not too expensive either. :D

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

Wow, my posts are getting a little out of hand, sorry! Just got the two new GWS tail motors and direct drive tail props from Speedster25 on eBay. What a deal-$10.00 for the motor and 2 props-I will try this out in the next few days-the tailprops are much smaller which could be good. The motor is quite a bit longer, rated at 6.5V. I'll post results. And to Krisma, Tim at RCandMe has been terrific-tremendous support-helped me understand the 22e, setting the proper blade pitch, how collective works. Can't thank him enough. Talk to you all later.

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

my suggestion through trial and error mate is forget the walkera motors altogether as they are crapp even if u mount 2 on the tail u will still have the same problem , the answer is to buy
a EDP-50XC as i just bought 1 with heetsink and works a treet or if u want to go brushless a fiargo 5t short motor they come in long or short for some reason or brushless again a medusa 4000kv 12mm motor, well i hope any of this info helps u but if u ever intend of changing your tail motor to brushless the medusa as i am told is the much better motor but the brushed 50xc
has had only 3 hours flight and only runs warm which is a good sign and for 15 dollars i cant complain and very responsive anyways cheers laurie

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

ccpmheli,
i have a hummingbird v3 and would like to know how you mounted the fan
i see they sell tail fins for the fan
but i dont see any mounting
or do you have to come up with some thing on your own
let me know very interested in this
thanks

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

daveywy, I just bored a hole in the fan housing, inserted the boom until it touched one of the motor's struts. I did file a small semi-circle on the motor's strut(where the boom contacted it.). I also mounted the fan on its weight centerline(I suspended the fan with a rubber band, when it hung level, I marked the housing and that is where I made my hole). I CA glued the boom/housing interface and CAed the boom to the semi-circle in the motor's strut. This seems plenty stong enough. As far as the fin goes, you can pretty much do anything you want with it, I made my prototype from balsa. Good Luck!

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

thanks, imgoing to get one of those fans i think that it should be more tail control with less draw
and they are making fins for them they ziptie to the boom.

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

It seems like there's still no breaktrough in brushless tail motor setup for walkera 22E.. isn't it?

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

As a cp2 flyer I guess I might be the enemy [&:]. But i did a mod to my tail motor to increase cooling for it, this seems to be a main factor increasing engine wear so should increase the life of the motor ( not had it done long enough to say ). See what you think, its quite a simple mod anyone could do...

[link=http://www.modpulse.com/articles/tail-motor-heatsink/]tail motor heat sink[/link]

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

d1kk1e

Very cool tail motor heat sink mod! I'm worry about the hanging braids may short circuit the motor terminal and burnt out the 4in1 tail esc.

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

Yeah I was a little concerned about that, since then I've done the twin engine mod for my heli and bought a different heat sink which again - just doesn't cool the engine enough.

I'm gonna try another one - this time with some thermal glue and make them over hang both sides rather than one, I'll try shortening the braids so they can't short the two pins - to be honest they dissipate the heat so quickly they could be a lot shorter. I'll let you know when I've done the mod.

Am also thinking of a similar mod for the main engine - now I can hover for a full battery I've noticed that gets hot too, was also gonna mod the canopy to direct air over the engine more, anyone ever done this before?

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

The dual tail motor mod I did just used an old mount from a broken tail I had, I'll post some pictures later...

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

Hey heres some pictures of the twin tail motor mod I did, was very straight forward and easy to do, doesn't need many tools either...

[link=http://www.modpulse.com/articles/r-c-mods/twin-tail-motor-mod/]Twin-tail-motor-mod[/link]

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

Hi Gents

I've just completed my seperates upgrade on my 22E.:D
I'm using the short Feigao (T5) motor, with STD pinion, on the tail with a 6A Robottonics ESC. the ESC is mounted midway down the tail boom.
Main motor the STD walkera 3200kV bruchless motor
Gyro is Micro Alain HH.

MAJOR PROBLEM - the tail overpowers the 22E completely even after cutting the blade to 5" diameter. Secondly sometimes the motor "stutters before start up after left yaw the the tail motor kicks in and overcorrects leading to complete lost of control.[:-][&o]:(

Can any one Help? What is the Best BL tail ESC?

Kind regards, Johano (BiJC)

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

Quick question whats the biggest battery u can put in a 22e? Is the specs on this battery to big?


3-Cell 15C 11.1v 2200mAh Li-Po Rechargeable Battery

* 3-Cell 15C Li-Po rechargeable battery for RC
* Capacity: 2200mAh
* Voltage: 11.1V
* Size : 105mm x 35mm x 22mm
* Weight: 160g

With a Brushless motor 180L

RE: Walkera 22e tail motor upgrade
 

If you look at the 22e lets talk site, the guys there will help you.
As for this question 1200mah 11.1volt 10c is the biggest you would go. The one you have mentioned is WAYYYYYYYYYYYY to big for that little heli